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Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 02:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
DIsclaimer: I fully support the AURUM (AUR) microtransaction system. I think it's a great idea, really.
Now on to my review...
Last build I felt like the way AUR was being marketed was really great. I got enough exposure to consider it (I'm personally very frugal, and I wound up buying the Merc Pack), but I didn't feel like I was obligated to do so. In the Precursor build though, my opinion has changed quite a bit about the marketing.
Changes that make me feel that AUR is being pushed too much:
-Get AUR button at the top of every item category. -AUR items (at least for dropsuits) are often listed above regular ISK items, even though they are being bought with much less frequency. -Heavy increase in the cost of ISK items, while AUR item costs are the same (as far as I remember).
These changes dishearten me. The first option doesn't really matter, it's no big deal, the ever-presence of it though just changes my opinion a little. The second change makes it more tedious when I'm trying to restock. However, worst of all was the third change. Tier-1 dropsuits are now very expensive, new players are pressured into using militia only instead of playing with the fitting interface, making cheap, simple dropsuits which aren't much better. To me it felt like less of a balancing change and more a marketing scheme.
Well, I suppose that's it, what are other people's thoughts on the changes to AUR marketing in Precursor?
Edit:
Please don't devolve this into a microtransaction bashing thread, it's much more productive to discuss why you don't like something. (Felt the need to post this before it gets bad). |
Song Soulfire
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 03:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
kinda makes me cringe a little, and reminds me of FaceBook's Zinga Games idiocy. ...
but then, as i Don't plan on buying AUR, its not really aimed at me... |
Raynor Ragna
266
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 04:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
I've always hated how CCP pushes Aurum. Sure they want/need money but its being shoved down our throats. |
Arwen Bochs
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 04:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Right before I quit for the night, all the Isk items in the marketplace disappeared and all that was left was Aurum items. Which makes sense if the Aurum and Isk are being run by different systems within Eve and there was a problem with the Isk market. |
pjwarrior long
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 04:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP PLEASE DONT BECOME ZYNGA. I HATE THOSE GAMES!!!!!! |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 04:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Please don't devolve this into a microtransaction bashing thread, it's much more productive to discuss why you don't like something. (Felt the need to post this before it gets bad). |
Denzin Hast
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 04:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Personally I don't mind the changes. They make the aurum items more prevalent and hiking the prices of the isk items makes the aurum look more enticing but currently i don't fell the need to buy them. I'm perfectly capable using militia items and when more people start using higher level stuff i will have stock piled enough isk to also use them. Also you have to remember on release the free market will decide the prices. What i do ask for is a filter so i can hide either aurum items and items i'm not skilled for just to free up some clutter especially in the grenade and weapon damage modifier section |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 04:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Denzin Hast wrote:Personally I don't mind the changes. They make the aurum items more prevalent and hiking the prices of the isk items makes the aurum look more enticing but currently i don't fell the need to buy them. I'm perfectly capable using militia items and when more people start using higher level stuff i will have stock piled enough isk to also use them. Also you have to remember on release the free market will decide the prices. What i do ask for is a filter so i can hide either aurum items and items i'm not skilled for just to free up some clutter especially in the grenade and weapon damage modifier section
Filters wouldn't be such a bad idea, I really like that idea. |
Grille Tuna
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 05:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
honestly why do you think its being pushed? |
theschizogenious
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
167
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 05:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
i like how its there in case you want to get it and even though it is prominent within the market you have to remember that it is the sole way of making money within dust because it isnt online where they can have ads popup every time you login.
so im fine with the amount of aurum ads as long as they dont interfere with my time in the market. |
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Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2012.08.19 05:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Grille Tuna wrote:honestly why do you think its being pushed?
Because they want money, and I have no issue with that. It's perfectly fine to advertise your products, it's just that with the recent changes to how it's done it seems a whole lot more in-your-face and off-putting. Advertising is good, overdoing it can be more harmful than good, though. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 06:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
theschizogenious wrote: so im fine with the amount of aurum ads as long as they dont interfere with my time in the market.
Same, it's just that listing them above ISK items is pesky to me, and the price changes make me feel more pressured to use AUR instead of ISK.
|
Bob Deorum
G I A N T
14
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Posted - 2012.08.19 07:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
ya I agree with the original post it really does feel like they are pushing it alot more then before, i do like the ideas of filters though i can never seeing them putting it in.
The isk hike has made the aur items wayyy more useful thats for sure. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 19:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
>>One Time Only Bump<< |
Trinity Ashima
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 19:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eirnin Solista wrote:DIsclaimer: I fully support the AURUM (AUR) microtransaction system. I think it's a great idea, really.
Now on to my review...
Last build I felt like the way AUR was being marketed was really great. I got enough exposure to consider it (I'm personally very frugal, and I wound up buying the Merc Pack), but I didn't feel like I was obligated to do so. In the Precursor build though, my opinion has changed quite a bit about the marketing.
Changes that make me feel that AUR is being pushed too much:
-Get AUR button at the top of every item category. -AUR items (at least for dropsuits) are often listed above regular ISK items, even though they are being bought with much less frequency. -Heavy increase in the cost of ISK items, while AUR item costs are the same (as far as I remember).
These changes dishearten me. The first option doesn't really matter, it's no big deal, the ever-presence of it though just changes my opinion a little. The second change makes it more tedious when I'm trying to restock. However, worst of all was the third change. Tier-1 dropsuits are now very expensive, new players are pressured into using militia only instead of playing with the fitting interface, making cheap, simple dropsuits which aren't much better. To me it felt like less of a balancing change and more a marketing scheme.
Well, I suppose that's it, what are other people's thoughts on the changes to AUR marketing in Precursor?
Edit:
Please don't devolve this into a microtransaction bashing thread, it's much more productive to discuss why you don't like something. (Felt the need to post this before it gets bad).
Ok let me break this down for you based on your bullet points for my own convenience ^^
- Honestly I don't think nor feel this is pushing AUR, merely a convenience over having to navigate to the main page. Honestly I'm ok with this and believe this is their intent.
- It could just be the way the market filters things. And don't forget AUR items will always be availabel where as isk ones may not.
- The isk increase is likely to bring stuff in line with EVE prices now that the game has been added to the EVE test server.
I see why you're concerned but reassure you that this is likely not trying to push AUR.
Now on to the actual problem with the current system;
Honestly personally I think the game is pay to win. I'm not bashing microtransactions, I'm fine with them if they are handled properly. -ú5 for a car like some games do it is just a plain attempt at exploitation. I say attempt because in the end you are not forced to buy, though things that are rediculously priced and forward the story are simple exploitation. Pay to win is wrong. Items either need to be cosmetic, otherwise available with ISK or skill point gain boosts. Equipment for real money you can't get purely in game is just wrong.
It has been suggested AUR items will be resellable and that this justifies it. It does not. I also see no incentive for players to sell AUR gear, it's better than anything else and what you're going to be fighting in why sell it? unless Vehicles are going to be isk only there's not going to be a reason to, even then they'll probably just leave vehicles to other people. Also from eve we know that what you sell is never worth the value of the AUR you buy it for.
We can buy plex (game time) from other players for in-game currency. Instead of spending it on game time we can convert it to AUR. AUR can be used to buy cosmetic items (which is the only way to get them bar 1 or 2 exceptions). These can then, again, be sold for isk to other players. The issue is that almost all of these items are sold for isk at LESS than their ISK to AUR value (based on the price of PLEX). So again, less insentive to sell AUR items.
Now don't go saying "Oh it's only 3 CPU". 3 cpu can mean fitting an extra shield extender or not. It is an in game advantage you can get from real money people who don't spend real money can't get.
Personally I'd be fine if every item both had an ISK or AUR price. That way people can play to get them or if you don't have enough time to play you can buy them. |
DRT33th
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 19:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'll have to go back and check but the real problem is that the AUR items are better like the OP stated.
This is turning into EXACTLY what CCP said it wouldn't be Pay-2-Win.
This wouldn't be an issue if the items are exactly the same stat wise.
"Eve is P2W" you say? Absolutly not. It's "skill up to win, don't risk what you can't handle losing" Eve is all time based skills ups. Buying Plex and items might get you that ship/module you want/need for your fit but it doesn't have much affect on you generating skillpoint advancement whereas in Dust it does. Better gear = better chances at killing/winning = more skill points than those less geared.
AND MAYBE I"M MISSING SOMETHING BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET RID OF THIS DAMN NOTIFICATION EVERY 10 SECONDS THAT MY FORUM POST DRAFT IS SAVED.... SERIOUSLY TEXT BOUNCING LIKE OCEAN WAVES?!?! (rage over, i so mad bro) |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 20:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm not sure what the issue is, here. Where should the button to get AUR be? Should they hide it so you need to ask on the forums where to get to it or something? These are pretty silly nitpicks. And considering the game is totally free I don't see how it'll be of benefit to anyone for them to try and keep you from being aware of AUR and the stuff you can buy with it.
DRT33th wrote:I'll have to go back and check but the real problem is that the AUR items are better like the OP stated.
They usually have lower PG/CPU/skill requirements and maybe they look nice but that's about it. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 20:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
From what I've seen, in MOST cases, AUR gear isn't really better. It fits into the tier below what the equivalent ISK gear is, but it doesn't - for the most part - do anything differently.
The Fused Locus Grenades from the Merc pack, and the Cavity grenades you can buy with AUR are an exception because they have a unique functionality that CAN'T be replicated with ISK gear and are pretty blatantly better than ISK versions. On top of that, the prototype AUR gear has MASSIVE fitting cost reductions, which makes it easier to equip that gear than ISK equivalents, so while it has the same skill requirements, it DOESN'T take as much effort to load up a suit with AUR items at that level.
I personally think the top-tier shouldn't even HAVE an AUR variant, or that version should handle differently - but NOT in a way that makes it definitively better. If they're going to reduce fitting costs, the margins on doing so need to be reduced. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 20:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: I personally think the top-tier shouldn't even HAVE an AUR variant, or that version should handle differently - but NOT in a way that makes it definitively better. If they're going to reduce fitting costs, the margins on doing so need to be reduced.
Definitely, top-tier stuff shouldn't have AUR variants that take less CPU/PG, though I don't have problems with the reduced skill requirement AUR variants that use the same PG/CPU. Enhanced-level perhaps, but Complex-Level/Prototype should be ISK only, though I'm not against cosmetic AUR items like we have now with the dropsuits. Boosters, skill spikes/clusters (whatever those will be), and universal transmitters (permission to create private chat channels?) will probably be where most of the revenue is anyway.
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:I'm not sure what the issue is, here. Where should the button to get AUR be? Should they hide it so you need to ask on the forums where to get to it or something? These are pretty silly nitpicks. And considering the game is totally free I don't see how it'll be of benefit to anyone for them to try and keep you from being aware of AUR and the stuff you can buy with it.
Exactly why I said it was a silly nitpick. Maybe it's just me because last build where I played a lot they didn't have the button everywhere. There are plenty of adds and the option on the homepage of the market. Having it in every category for me just felt like they were pushing it, and I wanted to tell CCP how the change made me feel, even though personally I don't care too much either way. The atmosphere a marketing plan gives off can affect people's attitudes towards it. By itself it's insignificant, but with the other changes it felt more profound to me. |
Ulf Thunderkick
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 20:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
The point made above regarding the increased cost of low-end suits is a very good one. Really, the only difference between the Scout I suit and the militia one is being able to fit things slightly easier. Ultimately, it isn't really worth it, as any better items you can fit are not justifiable by the cost of losing that suit each time you die. |
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Boss Dirge
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 23:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't really feel like the AUR is being pushed on me. I do like the convenience of being able to buy it right off the marketplace if I want.
In the last build we were making too much isk and now we aren't making enough. One prototype assault rifle costs 50 isk, and when you figure how much isk we are making on an ambush map it will never become financially feasible to even fit the rifle to a standard II drop suit. Because of buying both the weapon and the drop suit each time you die you are looking at around 100 isk per death.
What if there was a booster we could buy cheap for AUR that gave us a 50% increase to the amount of isk we earn each match just like the skill point version? CCP would get my 2 bucks a week and I would make enough isk to not have to run AUR gear. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 00:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Boss Dirge wrote: What if there was a booster we could buy cheap for AUR that gave us a 50% increase to the amount of isk we earn each match just like the skill point version? CCP would get my 2 bucks a week and I would make enough isk to not have to run AUR gear.
That's a slippery slope to P2W in my opinion. Sure you can play for free, you can struggle to get good gear, but even then you won't be able to use it for very long until you're out of ISK. Oh, but this guy? He buys AUR frequently, he should be able to afford things much easier, and not just the special stuff, the regular stuff too.
Perhaps if it was more of a one-time buy, like with the account upgrades for AdventureQuest, Dragon Fable, MechQuest, etc. I feel like it could be good. I'd definitely buy a permanent upgrade for $20 or so. If it's a temporary upgrade though, it'd feel too much like a subscription, and I don't get a lot of spending money, which is sadly why I've had to drop EVE these last two months... |
Boss Dirge
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 00:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Eirnin Solista wrote:Boss Dirge wrote: What if there was a booster we could buy cheap for AUR that gave us a 50% increase to the amount of isk we earn each match just like the skill point version? CCP would get my 2 bucks a week and I would make enough isk to not have to run AUR gear.
That's a slippery slope to P2W in my opinion. Sure you can play for free, you can struggle to get good gear, but even then you won't be able to use it for very long until you're out of ISK. Oh, but this guy? He buys AUR frequently, he should be able to afford things much easier, and not just the special stuff, the regular stuff too. Perhaps if it was more of a one-time buy, like with the account upgrades for AdventureQuest, Dragon Fable, MechQuest, etc. I feel like it could be good. I'd definitely buy a permanent upgrade for $20 or so. If it's a temporary upgrade though, it'd feel too much like a subscription, and I don't get a lot of spending money, which is sadly why I've had to drop EVE these last two months...
Point taken. I think the market is just fubared right now, hopefully it balances itself out some how. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 00:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Boss Dirge wrote:Point taken. I think the market is just fubared right now, hopefully it balances itself out some how.
Probably. |
Tawkis Tawharr
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 01:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:I'm not sure what the issue is, here. Where should the button to get AUR be? Should they hide it so you need to ask on the forums where to get to it or something? These are pretty silly nitpicks. And considering the game is totally free I don't see how it'll be of benefit to anyone for them to try and keep you from being aware of AUR and the stuff you can buy with it. DRT33th wrote:I'll have to go back and check but the real problem is that the AUR items are better like the OP stated. They usually have lower PG/CPU/skill requirements and maybe they look nice but that's about it.
Are they better than the base Meta 1 items? Totally. It looks like the primary benefit will be looks though as the kings of the hill seem to be isk items.
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Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 04:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tawkis Tawharr wrote: Are they better than the base Meta 1 items? Totally. It looks like the primary benefit will be looks though as the kings of the hill seem to be isk items.
The best items are AUR only, at least for now since there's no resell market... |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 04:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eirnin Solista wrote:DIsclaimer: I fully support the AURUM (AUR) microtransaction system. I think it's a great idea, really.
Now on to my review...
Last build I felt like the way AUR was being marketed was really great. I got enough exposure to consider it (I'm personally very frugal, and I wound up buying the Merc Pack), but I didn't feel like I was obligated to do so. In the Precursor build though, my opinion has changed quite a bit about the marketing.
Changes that make me feel that AUR is being pushed too much:
-Get AUR button at the top of every item category. -AUR items (at least for dropsuits) are often listed above regular ISK items, even though they are being bought with much less frequency. -Heavy increase in the cost of ISK items, while AUR item costs are the same (as far as I remember).
These changes dishearten me. The first option doesn't really matter, it's no big deal, the ever-presence of it though just changes my opinion a little. The second change makes it more tedious when I'm trying to restock. However, worst of all was the third change. Tier-1 dropsuits are now very expensive, new players are pressured into using militia only instead of playing with the fitting interface, making cheap, simple dropsuits which aren't much better. To me it felt like less of a balancing change and more a marketing scheme.
Well, I suppose that's it, what are other people's thoughts on the changes to AUR marketing in Precursor?
Edit:
Please don't devolve this into a microtransaction bashing thread, it's much more productive to discuss why you don't like something. (Felt the need to post this before it gets bad). I still think the micro-transaction focus should be on cosmetic items so as to avoid the whole pay-to-win debate that everyone seems to love to dredge up needlessly. Also, considering how well the MAG themed dropsuits were received, cosmetic items are a major moneymaker, and could even be used to bring in enough income to eliminate the need for items such as UVTs. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 06:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tawkis Tawharr wrote:Are they better than the base Meta 1 items? Totally. It looks like the primary benefit will be looks though as the kings of the hill seem to be isk items.
They're not better, they just let you fit better stuff on your dropsuit/vehicle overall if you want to. They aren't in themselves better, though.
But yes, cosmetic stuff is where they should be focusing their attention. Permanent cosmetic stuff and boosters will make them far more money than low PG/CPU items you lose everytime you die with them. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 06:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Tawkis Tawharr wrote:Are they better than the base Meta 1 items? Totally. It looks like the primary benefit will be looks though as the kings of the hill seem to be isk items.
They're not better, they just let you fit better stuff on your dropsuit/vehicle overall if you want to. They aren't in themselves better, though. But yes, cosmetic stuff is where they should be focusing their attention. Permanent cosmetic stuff and boosters will make them far more money than low PG/CPU items you lose everytime you die with them.
For sure. More of a chance for permanent cosmetic changes would definitely sell lots of AUR. Not many FPS players are willing to keep dispensing money for the parts they "need" (aka want) to play the game, and I think it would hurt DUST in the long run if they don't offer some more stable choices too. |
MoneyHoes CarsNClothes
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 06:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
this will be a free game am i right? if so, then i feel like they will do very well off by pushing AUR on a much larger community than the eve community. And pushing is never forcing, it's still up to the person behind the controller. P.S. the more money people spend on AUR the better your game will be...and of course the bigger and better servers...and more beer for fanfest. |
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Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 07:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
MoneyHoes CarsNClothes wrote:this will be a free game am i right? if so, then i feel like they will do very well off by pushing AUR on a much larger community than the eve community. And pushing is never forcing, it's still up to the person behind the controller. P.S. the more money people spend on AUR the better your game will be...and of course the bigger and better servers...and more beer for fanfest.
'Ay, I'm perfectly fine with advertising and trying to get people to purchase AUR, I was just voicing concern about my personal opinion that AUR sales shouldn't be the main focus of the game. I really don't see that happening, but I felt like the way the new changes to the AUR marketing strategy affected me were worth reporting to CCP. |
The Robot Devil
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 08:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Every item should be aur and ISK priced. I am pretty sure CCP just got like $200 million ( it mightis be 20) in grants and $15 a month from 400,000 subscribers. They don't need money to make the game better and the eve subscriptions should pay for the servers. Sony wants and needs the money, Sony also will do anything to get a fan base like eve's. Dust is going to be around for a while and the ps4 is coming so dust is a ps4 game. Sony needs a hardcore fps that is only on playstation to deal with xbox and computers. Now there is something like 12 million ps3, if half of those play dust and half of those pay for aur $5 once a year Sony has $15 million passing through the network. That's a lot or aur. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 08:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Every item should be aur and ISK priced. I am pretty sure CCP just got like $200 million ( it mightis be 20) in grants and $15 a month from 400,000 subscribers. They don't need money to make the game better and the eve subscriptions should pay for the servers. Sony wants and needs the money, Sony also will do anything to get a fan base like eve's. Dust is going to be around for a while and the ps4 is coming so dust is a ps4 game. Sony needs a hardcore fps that is only on playstation to deal with xbox and computers. Now there is something like 12 million ps3, if half of those play dust and half of those pay for aur $5 once a year Sony has $15 million passing through the network. That's a lot or aur.
Errr... What's this about grants? You mean from Sony? |
Tawkis Tawharr
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 22:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
Eirnin Solista wrote:Tawkis Tawharr wrote: Are they better than the base Meta 1 items? Totally. It looks like the primary benefit will be looks though as the kings of the hill seem to be isk items.
The best items are AUR only, at least for now since there's no resell market...
It depends on what you look at, for a lot of weapons the AUR version is better. If you take a look at repair tools ( 1st I found) there's a prototype version for ISK that is hands down better than the AUR option.
I think the AUR items will generally give you fitting flexibility, but they certainly aren't going to win the fights for you. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 06:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tawkis Tawharr wrote:
I think the AUR items will generally give you fitting flexibility, but they certainly aren't going to win the fights for you.
True true. I'm just concerned about the whole atmosphere the marketing is starting to give off. Now um... please excuse my profanity but.... Incarna.
All joking aside though, CCP really doesn't want to get their fanbase pissed off again, even if it is for a separate game. Me? I'm not mad, just worried CCP might goof up again, and both games will take a lot of flak, which would be such a shame because both are really amazing games. I mean, EVE has been strong for over nine years, and DUST is only in the beta stage, and look how amazing it is already! |
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