DUST Search - Pay to Win, and how CCP might get rid of it, with more money

Baron Rittmeister wrote:

I understand what you mean cheecham, but there are a few things I must point out as a devil's advocate. One, in the future you will be able to buy aur items with isk in the player market- they will be at a considerable markup. Players can buy aur weapons and then put them on the market for isk. Two, while the aur weapons sometimes have a smaller cpu/pg drain I don't see where it lends a tremendous advantage. You cite being able to use a dmg mod where the other wouldn't, but there's still only a limited number of slots to put these mods in and that would mean he's putting that dmg mod in the place of a shield extender or something else the isk only player might have, so it's not that great an advantage. Plus, the aur weapons that allow you to use them early come at a increased cpu/pg, so I think it evens out.

The problem I have with aur and isk is they're making isk items so expensive that it pushes players to want to purchase aur to save on isk. Even if one costs real world currency vs virtual money, it's a psychological trick. Players get tired of paying 10-20k isk for one weapon, but then notice it only costs 6 aur. When you can get over a 1k aur for a few bucks it deceives the player into thinking he got a good deal when in reality the devs used reverse psychology to influence him into purchasing the aur in the first place.


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Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.16 13:59:00 - [1] - Quote CCP denies it, and CCP fanboys deny it. But it is one of the elephants in the room, and a big one to boot. It is *Pay to Win* It is in DUST. It can not be denied. Even Proto guns for tanks have been released with an AUR price tag, and not a very high one compared to infantry gear I might add. The problem: In short, the AUR items tend to use fewer resources, and from what I've seen have equal or better stats than their regular counterparts, and cost about half if not a third the SP to get. AUR items can mean freeing up valuable resources, and being able to fit an extra damage mod, or other modules the player would never be able to field otherwise, making them far more durable, and potentially deadly. It is not the individual AUR item that puts them in the P2W category, it is what they enable when fitted. A DUST Fitting Tool would be nice, but that is probably still a way off, but we need to sit down, and crunch all the math to see what AUR Items really mean to fittings and what the resources their use free up on the vehicle or dropsuit really mean for the overall stats of a fit. If it turns out (as I suspect) that an AUR fitted player will have significant overall performance over their ISK only counterparts, things need to be changed. I see only one solution really, and that is to add an ISK price on AUR items as well as an AUR price on ISK items, with a set AUR/ISK conversion rate for the NPC market. The Player market can then go in and undercut that NPC market, both ways. Change the current terminology, and make the current AUR items into "Faction" items, like in EVE, where these actually ARE more expensive, and do free up resources as well as having superior stats. But they are available for ISK, NEVER for AUR. Perhaps later, these Faction Items may be rewarded in storyline NPC missions, or for warpoints, as well as AUR if needed. For CCP, this means that all items CAN be bought for ISK or AUR. Of course that also mean that rich kids will have it easier than not so rich kids, but that is no different that in EVE, where we can sell the PLEX'es and raise ISK that way, and doesn't get around the need to earn SP and skills before using it.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.16 14:08:00 - [2] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: oh dear lord no! you mean people are paying to get items that eve corps will be able to make on their own and sell to dust guys for ISK? its the end of the game as we know it quick grab your pitchforks and torches kill the monster before its too late. The problem is we haven't seen any mechanics for this to happen yet. None. And no indication if the AUR only items will be able to be player made as well. At this point, silence from CCP is making things worse. As always. I wrote a long post to point out why and what I think what I do. And make a feasible solution, considering we don't have Plexes in Dust. At the end of the day, I'd much rather they forgot the AUR altogether, and let us buy the ISK at Plex equivalent prices off the PSN store.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.16 14:13:00 - [3] - Quote wathak 514 wrote: Sorry aur items dont matter as much as u think there very wel balenced over there isk counterparts and its great laugh to hear a kid brag about his aur loadout til i kill him 200 time costing him 200 real world cash that in 1 way or form gets used to bring me more toys to play with No, they are not. Damage and such, yes, they look more or less the same. BUT they usually also cost far less CPU and PG to fit, and THAT is where things go wrong. If you can fit a 25% damage mod because of the saved PG/CPU, that you could not with the unnamed item, it shouldn't be hard to figure out that the AUR item is really 25% more powerful.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.16 14:35:00 - [4] - Quote Baron Rittmeister wrote: I understand what you mean cheecham, but there are a few things I must point out as a devil's advocate. One, in the future you will be able to buy aur items with isk in the player market- they will be at a considerable markup. Players can buy aur weapons and then put them on the market for isk. Two, while the aur weapons sometimes have a smaller cpu/pg drain I don't see where it lends a tremendous advantage. You cite being able to use a dmg mod where the other wouldn't, but there's still only a limited number of slots to put these mods in and that would mean he's putting that dmg mod in the place of a shield extender or something else the isk only player might have, so it's not that great an advantage. Plus, the aur weapons that allow you to use them early come at a increased cpu/pg, so I think it evens out. The problem I have with aur and isk is they're making isk items so expensive that it pushes players to want to purchase aur to save on isk. Even if one costs real world currency vs virtual money, it's a psychological trick. Players get tired of paying 10-20k isk for one weapon, but then notice it only costs 6 aur. When you can get over a 1k aur for a few bucks it deceives the player into thinking he got a good deal when in reality the devs used reverse psychology to influence him into purchasing the aur in the first place. I did this on the previous build, with great success. My AUR fit could kill Marauders where my stock Wyirkomi SL could not, at least it took long enough for them to hide. The reason being I could use larger damage mods, and actually an extra one to boot. I were only using a Type A assault and could not find the CPU/PG to fully fit those slots without the AUR gun. In this build that becomes even more pronounced, If you can spend 5-7 AUR and save 200k ISK on a Proto suit...
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.17 11:44:00 - [5] - Quote BestNameEva wrote: its a FREE game given to us for FREE and all you can do is ***** about an unfair advantage. waaa waaa waaa go play cod with the other 12 year olds Really helpful there. Are you even old enough to Play Dust, with it being PG16...
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.17 11:46:00 - [6] - Quote Kleanur Guy wrote: People. AUR items will be sellable for ISK! Bad excuse, because that market is NOT there yet, and may, or may not be at release. Still, a bad excuse that does NOT address the problem that any kid with wealthy parents can buy AUR items, where those same items are never guaranteed to be available on the market for non AUR players.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.17 16:12:00 - [7] - Quote Nstomper wrote: Dude chewie you still at this? , you make 100000000000000000 threads and now it's just getting very irritating to see this same name posting the same threads over and over ith difference titles and just reworded different I'm still at it, because CCP is still at it. If no one put focus on the problems, things would go really bad.