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Rasmergan
8
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Posted - 2012.08.13 04:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just had a game where we completely destroyed the other team. Now to tell you how the game went,
Game Starts, 4 Tanks called in for the attackers.... All 4 Tanks run around and basically destroy any building that can be destroyed, then starts killing players. Enemy Team (Defenders) run around and cap points here and there. We go take the points back, enemy team regroups and tries to call in tanks/ dropships. One dropship I think actually made it into the air. All 4 tanks, continue to run around uninhibited, til the MCC docks.
For the entire game, not one single tank was destroyed, nor was our LAV IIRC.
So for everyone that thinks tanks don't need some adjusting, well I won't say what I think.
I wish someone had recorded that game and sent it into CCP. I don't think an Entire team of Proto Heavies with proto weapons would have killed a single one of the 4 tanks. You may disagree, and that's fine.
But yes, tanks need a little adjusting, maybe not nerfing, but some adjustments/tweaking. |
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS
99
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
........... wow I never have games like that. ever ever ever. i've hardly seen a single vehicle this build. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's not the fact that the tanks are need adjusting. It's the fact that the team you opposed was disorganized. Wait until player-corp management is added then tell me if you think tanks still need adjusting. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
A team of heavies would kill 1. But he'd call in a second. I agree tanks need some balancing. Do you recall if they were all marauders? Militia? I'm guessing marauders. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rasmergan wrote:Just had a game where we completely destroyed the other team. Now to tell you how the game went,
Game Starts, 4 Tanks called in for the attackers.... All 4 Tanks run around and basically destroy any building that can be destroyed, then starts killing players. Enemy Team (Defenders) run around and cap points here and there. We go take the points back, enemy team regroups and tries to call in tanks/ dropships. One dropship I think actually made it into the air. All 4 tanks, continue to run around uninhibited, til the MCC docks.
For the entire game, not one single tank was destroyed, nor was our LAV IIRC.
So for everyone that thinks tanks don't need some adjusting, well I won't say what I think.
I wish someone had recorded that game and sent it into CCP. I don't think an Entire team of Proto Heavies with proto weapons would have killed a single one of the 4 tanks. You may disagree, and that's fine.
But yes, tanks need a little adjusting, maybe not nerfing, but some adjustments/tweaking.
what were those proto heavies using? forge guns?
Rock always beats Scissors until you use Paper.
Sounds like your team was bad at AV.
Last game I just played, vehicles were dominating, especially a Sagaris. I spawn midgame.. and vehicles started to die. Militia stuff was the first to go, then I took out the Sagaris by myself with just a Proto Swarm Launcher.
Anti-Vehicle is a skill, that requires practice and proper skills, just like AR, and Vehicles.
Anti-Vehicle is a ROLE that nobody seems to get. You can't just toss in a Swarm Launcher or Forge Gun and call it good. They need to be dedicated at their role. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rasmergan wrote:Just had a game where we completely destroyed the other team. Now to tell you how the game went,
Game Starts, 4 Tanks called in for the attackers.... All 4 Tanks run around and basically destroy any building that can be destroyed, then starts killing players. Enemy Team (Defenders) run around and cap points here and there. We go take the points back, enemy team regroups and tries to call in tanks/ dropships. One dropship I think actually made it into the air. All 4 tanks, continue to run around uninhibited, til the MCC docks.
For the entire game, not one single tank was destroyed, nor was our LAV IIRC.
So for everyone that thinks tanks don't need some adjusting, well I won't say what I think.
I wish someone had recorded that game and sent it into CCP. I don't think an Entire team of Proto Heavies with proto weapons would have killed a single one of the 4 tanks. You may disagree, and that's fine.
But yes, tanks need a little adjusting, maybe not nerfing, but some adjustments/tweaking.
its called a blitzkrieg strategy and your team didnt know how to handle it. Nothing wrong here and you lost. Sorry bud. |
Rasmergan
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
I didn't say no one had ever had a game like that, Im pretty sure it happens quite regularly. Second, it didn't help Proto was on the winning team with the 4 tanks, his being one of them.
Now, Im also one of the few people that seems to realize this is still beta, and everything isn't in the game atm. Ive played EVE and it seems CCP is very good at making sure there are counters for everything. I also realize everyone isn't created equal in EVE/DUST. That's basically what fuels the game. No single person can kill every single player/fitting/combo of weapons/suits/mods etc. You just can't. There will be a direct counter to everything one way or the other. So Im sure that there will be one at some point. I have alot of faith in CCP as a company. Im just saying it ain't Swarm Launchers and Forge Guns has it stands now.
I also realize the new build is coming out next week, with some new additions to weapons and stuff etc. Highly looking forward to this myself. I see an hour or 2 worth of reading headed my way next Thursday.
I understand organization helps, however I also know Corp Management and grouping can't overcome everything. If something is balanced just right then it isn't balanced. In a 12 on 12 with 3 people in 4 tanks, that's is 1 person for each target on the other team. No coordination is gonna overcome that, when the tanks weapons do more damage on average then the soldiers.. most of the vehicle turrets are OHKs to anything not in a vehicle. I have faith in Grouping and Team Strategy but apparently not as much as you do. And remember that works both ways, if all of us in the tanks were more coordinated it would have been a bigger blowout. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Uh, guys. I think Rasmergan is implying that his team won... not lost. Unless I'm reading it wrong and I need to see a eye doctor. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rhadiem wrote:Rasmergan wrote:Just had a game where we completely destroyed the other team. Now to tell you how the game went,
Game Starts, 4 Tanks called in for the attackers.... All 4 Tanks run around and basically destroy any building that can be destroyed, then starts killing players. Enemy Team (Defenders) run around and cap points here and there. We go take the points back, enemy team regroups and tries to call in tanks/ dropships. One dropship I think actually made it into the air. All 4 tanks, continue to run around uninhibited, til the MCC docks.
For the entire game, not one single tank was destroyed, nor was our LAV IIRC.
So for everyone that thinks tanks don't need some adjusting, well I won't say what I think.
I wish someone had recorded that game and sent it into CCP. I don't think an Entire team of Proto Heavies with proto weapons would have killed a single one of the 4 tanks. You may disagree, and that's fine.
But yes, tanks need a little adjusting, maybe not nerfing, but some adjustments/tweaking. what were those proto heavies using? forge guns? Rock always beats Scissors until you use Paper. Sounds like your team were bad at AV. Last game I just played, vehicles were dominating, especially a Sagaris. I spawn midgame.. and vehicles started to die. Militia stuff was the first to go, then I took out the Sagaris by myself with just a Proto Swarm Launcher. Anti-Vehicle is a skill, that requires practice and proper skills, just like AR, and Vehicles. Anti-Vehicle is a ROLE that nobody seems to get. You can't just toss in a Swarm Launcher or Forge Gun and call it good. They need to be dedicated at their role.
Very true for the most part. There are indestructible pieces of landscape that you can use for cover while you blow an HAV to hell. Depending on whether there's a gunner or not you can circle it. Regardless of either you can surf the damn thing at point blank if you've got your platforming skills up to snuff. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
what people dont seem to realize is that you cant just swap into a AV fit and take out tanks....it doesnt work that way. You need to be AV and stop them from coming into play in the first place....good call on the above post about highlighting role. ima make a thread letting people in on the secret lolz. |
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Rasmergan
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oh and apparently, some of you are missing the fact that I was on the winning team as one of the 4 tanks. I wasn't defending. My team didn't lose.
2nd I played battlefield 3 for about 2 weeks, and didn't really like it. You do realize you can blow up the blaster installations, reanimation chambers, supply depots, and the main guns at A, B, and C right? Why wouldn't blow those up if you are attacking. If they can't shoot your MCC you win. If you take out the guns at AB and C they can hold the points all day and not blow it up, as long as you don't leave the blaster installations. And it's points plus extra money. So it's WIN all the way around. I don't want this game to be anything close to Battlefield 3 or COD, cause those games got boring real fast.
Oh and I do believer our teams tanks were 3 Sagaris and a Surya, Im not sure which Proto drives, my friend was his gunner, and said he's an armor tank which doesn't make sense in the Sagaris...but it might have been 4 Sagaris, cause my friend doesn't pay good attention most times. |
Elrick Mercer
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ha Proto bought out 4 tanks he did that last build too! |
Rasmergan
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
No they weren't all Protos tanks. He called in his, and the other 3 of us each had our own..from what my friend said Proto abandoned his as some point in the match and let someone else drive it, then got back in as a gunner. |
BobThe843CakeMan
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 04:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
wat they need to do is lower the vehicle limit to at least 3 max. Why would u ever need 6 vehicles. U need 2 for gunners and a dropship can hold 6 ppl. 6 vehicles in a match is just asking for ppl to bring in weak paper vehicles. Maybe tht was their goal, but a 6 vehicle drop is unnecassry until they raise the unit count in a game. |
Absol Evoxazon
Hikahotaru
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 09:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
i feel bad for the defending side, disorganized and no proper AV roles. ouch. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 09:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Once a team is allowed to successfully field 4 tanks, yeah they're hard to beat (but not impossible). The defender's problem in that match was that they ignored the attacker's spawn points and let those 4 tanks into the game.
The best defence is prevention. Don't let the enemy do something and you won't have to counter it.
My solution? Dedicated small AV squad early on at the turret line south of B taking out any tank that rolls down the road. I've done it myself. Single handedly (because other AV's are hard to find) kept the attacker's without vehicles for a good 2-3 minutes into the match.
You just need to PLAN and COUNTER any tactic thrown at you. If you can't plan and don't understand tactics so yeah, you're screwed. |
Iceyburnz
316
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 09:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Stuff is coming that will counter tanks!
CCP is just confirming what it already knows. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 09:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
There is one solution that will make all these troubles a thing of the past. Comms. T%eamwork, and Focused fire
Don't demand something being nerfed, until you have the bigger picture.
Imagine this. IF your team had good comms, and teamwork, you could have had your Squad leaders paint one tank, and everybody could have started going for it at the same time. It would have died fast., and then you could move onto the next.
The only nerf needed for tanks is teamwork. |
Sicko V
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 10:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Iceyburnz wrote:Stuff is coming that will counter tanks!
CCP is just confirming what it already knows.
Yeah, I heard that they're releasing these guns called forge guns and they'll be able to 4-5 shot a sagaris and 2 shot a militia tank.
Oh wait, they have those. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 10:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
I had a game that went the opposite. I saw a tank by northwest cru on map when respawning, so I spawned there with proto-swarm. Killed the madrugar, turn around and see 2 more tanks. I duck behind small structure to avoid fire while locking on. Swarms keep switching what tank they lock on, so I figure I'm dead when I find it's a sagaris and a surya. Manage to kill both, then cap c, 4th tank drives up. Turned out to be sica, 1rst shot put it in armour and it blew as it tried to run.
One match doesn't show they are over or under powered. There will be jammers, turret disruptors, and webifiers to help kill vehicles, till these are added we won't know for sure how the balance is.
The destroyable null cannon is interesting to hear, I wonder if they are hackable? |
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fenrir storm
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
314
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Amazeing how many bad teams,players are out there according to these forums. you cant blame players for calling in 4/5 tanks if it gets the job done, but that leaves you with 1 option go as a heavy anti armour build and if like me you have points invested in assault it makes you pretty useless.
This just goes to show that other load outs need some major anti armour abilities, 2 grenades just is not a solution mines could be one.
Yes other things are planned but they are not out yet which leaves players thinking tanks are op and at the moment with only one build (if they are not running with an assault rifle) capable of dealing with the problem.
Yes there are teams witch dont jell and work good together but with so many complaints it makes you wonder |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
fenrir storm wrote:Amazeing how many bad teams,players are out there according to these forums. you cant blame players for calling in 4/5 tanks if it gets the job done, but that leaves you with 1 option go as a heavy anti armour build and if like me you have points invested in assault it makes you pretty useless.
This just goes to show that other load outs need some major anti armour abilities, 2 grenades just is not a solution mines could be one.
Yes other things are planned but they are not out yet which leaves players thinking tanks are op and at the moment with only one build (if they are not running with an assault rifle) capable of dealing with the problem.
Yes there are teams witch dont jell and work good together but with so many complaints it makes you wonder When a unit of say 12 US Army soldiers go for a "walk" in Iraq, do you think they are all carrying gear to deal with any possible outcome? No they are not. Each soldier specializes in certain types of threats. Each solder is weak against mixed attacks. But as a unit they are strong. As a unit they can take out infantry, tank, choppers and whatever other tactical threats they may face.
For now in Dust we only have tactical threats. As a team we should be able to deal with them as long as everyone's not half-arsed and trying to be standalone gods. A unit needs to equip as a unit. A 2-3 person squad for AV plenty.
In the future we'll have strategic threats as well. We'll have jets and EVE ships and who knows. Those will be countered at a strategic level as well. Are you already planning on calling an EVE ship OP just because a single merc can't fire at it? A unit of mercs can't fire at it either. Another EVE ship can. So can a Skyfire Battery. Those are strategic. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Simple really
Tanks are going to be more expenisve so i doubt you will see more than 2 being called in
But also they should be made to carry ammo and also reload instead of constant spam |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Simple really
Tanks are going to be more expenisve so i doubt you will see more than 2 being called in
But also they should be made to carry ammo and also reload instead of constant spam I've heard the price being thrown around a lot as a balancing measure. In reality it won't be that important. They said that about carriers in EVE and were proven wrong and then about titans and proven wrong. Price won't balance, it'll just bring in the bigger players.
As for vehicle ammo, I'm for that completely. +1 for this. |
fenrir storm
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
314
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mate I know about the army even basic infantry companys have a way to deal with armour albeit limited but they can deal with it, this is a game to play for fun not real life.
When the game goes live I will agree with you that the corps will have a different role for each member but this is beta and it is showing that tanks are ruleing the game even with a group of 6 heavies all kitted out if there are more that 2 top tear tanks on the map they have there work cut out for them and players are noticeing this . Thats why you have so many complaints |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 15:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Simple really
Tanks are going to be more expenisve so i doubt you will see more than 2 being called in
But also they should be made to carry ammo and also reload instead of constant spam I've heard the price being thrown around a lot as a balancing measure. In reality it won't be that important. They said that about carriers in EVE and were proven wrong and then about titans and proven wrong. Price won't balance, it'll just bring in the bigger players. As for vehicle ammo, I'm for that completely. +1 for this.
Yeah, I really want to put a few rounds of antimatter rounds up a forge gunners *** :) I'm a tank driver, and even I think Ammo is needed. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 15:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dewie Cheecham wrote:Grit Breather wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Simple really
Tanks are going to be more expenisve so i doubt you will see more than 2 being called in
But also they should be made to carry ammo and also reload instead of constant spam I've heard the price being thrown around a lot as a balancing measure. In reality it won't be that important. They said that about carriers in EVE and were proven wrong and then about titans and proven wrong. Price won't balance, it'll just bring in the bigger players. As for vehicle ammo, I'm for that completely. +1 for this. Yeah, I really want to put a few rounds of antimatter rounds up a forge gunners *** :) I'm a tank driver, and even I think Ammo is needed.
Wroks im most shooters
You have to reload |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 16:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Oh well, I get the whole role and anti-role stuff, but this build games fel too much like a spam fest of vehicle weaponry and AV stuff.
IMO this game should take lessons from other games and have some sort of cap to what can be fielded.
Many games have fixed roles players can asume. That would not work here.
But having some sort of "point allowance" that could be deducted by calling in vehicles could help. Something like each team have 100 points. If a tank is called lets say 40 points are deducted from the pool. Once destroyed these points are added back to the pool. Same thing for heavy AV weaponry like missile launchers and forge guns.
Well anyway I hope the game next build have less spamming of ordinance, because its very annoying to play as infantry right now in this build. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 16:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ender Storm wrote:Oh well, I get the whole role and anti-role stuff, but this build games fel too much like a spam fest of vehicle weaponry and AV stuff.
IMO this game should take lessons from other games and have some sort of cap to what can be fielded.
Many games have fixed roles players can asume. That would not work here.
But having some sort of "point allowance" that could be deducted by calling in vehicles could help. Something like each team have 100 points. If a tank is called lets say 40 points are deducted from the pool. Once destroyed these points are added back to the pool. Same thing for heavy AV weaponry like missile launchers and forge guns.
Well anyway I hope the game next build have less spamming of ordinance, because its very annoying to play as infantry right now in this build.
Maybe in high sec but in low and null its call as many in as you want to |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 17:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rasmergan wrote:Just had a game where we completely destroyed the other team. Now to tell you how the game went,
Game Starts, 4 Tanks called in for the attackers.... All 4 Tanks run around and basically destroy any building that can be destroyed, then starts killing players. Enemy Team (Defenders) run around and cap points here and there. We go take the points back, enemy team regroups and tries to call in tanks/ dropships. One dropship I think actually made it into the air. All 4 tanks, continue to run around uninhibited, til the MCC docks.
For the entire game, not one single tank was destroyed, nor was our LAV IIRC.
So for everyone that thinks tanks don't need some adjusting, well I won't say what I think.
I wish someone had recorded that game and sent it into CCP. I don't think an Entire team of Proto Heavies with proto weapons would have killed a single one of the 4 tanks. You may disagree, and that's fine.
But yes, tanks need a little adjusting, maybe not nerfing, but some adjustments/tweaking.
You all be screaming nerf forge guns if I was in that match. |
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