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sgt frig
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.08.13 03:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
I love to fly the drop ships, i find them fun. It seems thou that when i fly a drop ship, of course i get no kills on the kill board, and i don't get a lot of isk or sp, as i do when i gun for a drop ship or if i am on the ground being infantry. Is there a way this can be balanced so there is some better reward for flying our expensive ships on the battle field?
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Frande Leth
Mystic Dust
0
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Posted - 2012.08.13 09:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
i have a suggestion for that. the gunners of a drop ship needs a good pilot to improve there accuracy, so the pilot should get contrition similar to what the gunners of his drop ship do, this could give the pilot double SP if he is skilled enough to have the gunners at both sides of his ship at a preferably position, but that would be fair since that requires a lot of skill. and he would get nothing if he has no one to gun for him, but then he wouldn't really be contributing the the battle either |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.08.13 09:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Frande Leth wrote:i have a suggestion for that. the gunners of a drop ship needs a good pilot to improve there accuracy, so the pilot should get contrition similar to what the gunners of his drop ship do, this could give the pilot double SP if he is skilled enough to have the gunners at both sides of his ship at a preferably position, but that would be fair since that requires a lot of skill. and he would get nothing if he has no one to gun for him, but then he wouldn't really be contributing the the battle either
you're clearly not a dropship pilot. :)
bad gunners are bad gunners. Yet we're expected to magically pick up the good ones so we can pilot them expertly in order to get our rightful SP.
Unfortunately, this is VERY dependent on getting a good gunner that has zero skill or isk investment in the process. |
Roamcel Varije
3
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Posted - 2012.08.13 09:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
FOR EACH GUNNER KILL, THE KILLSPAM SHOWS GUNNER+PILOT, AND THE PILOT GETS A PART OF THE EXPERIENCE. PROBLEM SOLVED.
Since it doesn't seem to work like this with dropships, the designer of the current state is obiously an idiot. |
Frande Leth
Mystic Dust
0
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Posted - 2012.08.13 09:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rhadiem wrote:Frande Leth wrote:i have a suggestion for that. the gunners of a drop ship needs a good pilot to improve there accuracy, so the pilot should get contrition similar to what the gunners of his drop ship do, this could give the pilot double SP if he is skilled enough to have the gunners at both sides of his ship at a preferably position, but that would be fair since that requires a lot of skill. and he would get nothing if he has no one to gun for him, but then he wouldn't really be contributing the the battle either you're clearly not a dropship pilot. :) bad gunners are bad gunners. Yet we're expected to magically pick up the good ones so we can pilot them expertly in order to get our rightful SP. Unfortunately, this is VERY dependent on getting a good gunner that has zero skill or isk investment in the process.
no im not, but i see a problem with harvesting sp just by flying, because you will have people just flying around trying to stay safe instead of actually participating, having sucky gunners can be avoided when the corps comes into play, then you can chose risking random idiots by playing with randoms, OR play with the people you usually play with and have skilled people, if your a gunner and have a sucky pilot you wont make a lot of SP either |
The Robot Devil
45
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
There are times when I fly a 160k ISK ship for 15 minutes or more, my guys gunning get 15 or more kills on each side of the ship and guys spawning from my ship over objectives to hack them and I get 12000 SP. I work hard on supporting the team and communicating but get very little in return. There are lots of times when I can't even get a gunner to fly for whatever reason and I get shot from the sky. I go 0 kills and less than 20k sp when my gunners are at the top of the kill boards. I try not to cry about things but it does seem like pilots get the short end. Also, all vehicles should have ammunition limits, I run the AT-1 launchers and it doesn't makes sense that the missiles are infinite. |
blqkt2011
RestlessSpirits
25
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rhadiem wrote:Frande Leth wrote:i have a suggestion for that. the gunners of a drop ship needs a good pilot to improve there accuracy, so the pilot should get contrition similar to what the gunners of his drop ship do, this could give the pilot double SP if he is skilled enough to have the gunners at both sides of his ship at a preferably position, but that would be fair since that requires a lot of skill. and he would get nothing if he has no one to gun for him, but then he wouldn't really be contributing the the battle either you're clearly not a dropship pilot. :) bad gunners are bad gunners. Yet we're expected to magically pick up the good ones so we can pilot them expertly in order to get our rightful SP. Unfortunately, this is VERY dependent on getting a good gunner that has zero skill or isk investment in the process.
There is no such thing as a bad gunner - only a bad pilot. Some may not know how to lead their shots while your ripping your dropship 100 mile's an hour across the map, but it's not their fault that you are moving so fast. The pilot must put his ship in harms way in order for his gunners to get lot's of kill's. My gunner's get lot's of kill's (20 plus each) when I pilot, and yes I do loose dropships to enemy fire but it's a risk you have to take. I also lead my dropship during dog fight's so that my gunners get the optinum shot's. It's your responsibilty to get them the best shot's possible they just shoot the target. So there aren't any bad gunners - just bad pilot's. And comms. between pilots and gunners are a big plus too. Thank's for flying Air Black Kat........ |
The Robot Devil
45
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Posted - 2012.08.13 17:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
There are some bad gunners and some really bad pilots. I do wish the names of my passengers were displayed so I could call out easier. |
Kaif Zel
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
88
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Posted - 2012.08.13 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:There are some bad gunners and some really bad pilots. I do wish the names of my passengers were displayed so I could call out easier.
Brilliant idea, i like this a lot better than Left gunner, Right Gunner |
Evane Sa'edi
Celtic Anarchy
62
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Posted - 2012.08.13 19:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
It would be of great use if the guns defaulted to face forward when not in use and the pilot had firing control when there are no gunners to override. |
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noob sauce fodder
4
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Posted - 2012.08.13 20:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
sgt frig wrote:I love to fly the drop ships, i find them fun. It seems thou that when i fly a drop ship, of course i get no kills on the kill board, and i don't get a lot of isk or sp, as i do when i gun for a drop ship or if i am on the ground being infantry. Is there a way this can be balanced so there is some better reward for flying our expensive ships on the battle field?
My thought/suggestion is to give pilots/drivers 50% of all points earned by turret gunners. Change from k/d ratio stats to point stats as the measure of success. Troops/vehicles in a specific radius of an objective are rewarded 25% of the full reward if they were in the vicinity of the objective for some reasonable amount of time. Lastly make turret gunnery a new skill/class training line in parallel with assault/heavy/scout and pilot classes with modules and skills which help improve the turret they are in primarily and then the vehicle/structure they are in secondarily. |
Grille Tuna
2
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Posted - 2012.08.13 21:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
noob sauce fodder wrote:sgt frig wrote:I love to fly the drop ships, i find them fun. It seems thou that when i fly a drop ship, of course i get no kills on the kill board, and i don't get a lot of isk or sp, as i do when i gun for a drop ship or if i am on the ground being infantry. Is there a way this can be balanced so there is some better reward for flying our expensive ships on the battle field?
My thought/suggestion is to give pilots/drivers 50% of all points earned by turret gunners. Change from k/d ratio stats to point stats as the measure of success. Troops/vehicles in a specific radius of an objective are rewarded 25% of the full reward if they were in the vicinity of the objective for some reasonable amount of time. Lastly make turret gunnery a new skill/class training line in parallel with assault/heavy/scout and pilot classes with modules and skills which help improve the turret they are in primarily and then the vehicle/structure they are in secondarily.
I was thinking the same thing. I spent some time as a gunner last weekend and found my 'hit rate' was very dependent on the pilot. if he flew like he was in a race or ran for safety I couldn't get a shot at anything if he hover over a target and put 'us' in harms way i could spam the target with fire. also twitchy pilots make gunning as difficult as flying too fast. So giving the pilots 50% of the sp or even 25-35%(since there's 2 gunners) of the TOTAL SP DIVIDED between gunner and pilot would be an incentive to have good pilots flying and gunners gunning. pulled these numbers out of my backside im sure the mathimaticians at CCP can work out something similar. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2012.08.13 21:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
in addition to the normal SP gain for the vehicle assist pilots should also be aible to get points for players spawning into the dropship with a mobile CRU fitted on it. Like with the drop uplinks +15 for each spawn in your dropship. And yes i can say that bad gunners are simply bad gunners. Im piloting aswell and using a mic i just start to rage at people who doesnt have a mic and spam the missiles every where. And if some 1 ask kindly enough for a gunner i can do the job. Last time i was in some guys prometheus and he had a mic too. Went i think 51-0 that match, warned him if i spotted swarms/forgegunners etc. Communication is the key for pilots and gunners. Another thing is missile launchers are not really accurate enough. If the pilot flys a bit faster then usual the missiles go to any possible direction. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.08.13 23:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Frande Leth wrote:
no im not, but i see a problem with harvesting sp just by flying, because you will have people just flying around trying to stay safe instead of actually participating, having sucky gunners can be avoided when the corps comes into play, then you can chose risking random idiots by playing with randoms, OR play with the people you usually play with and have skilled people, if your a gunner and have a sucky pilot you wont make a lot of SP either
Flying around is not playing it safe :) Not if you want to do anything productive, because Forge Guns and Swarm Launchers swat dropships out of the sky. They are also expensive and will be very expensive in a day or two when the patch is out.
Secondly you can't "harvest" SP unless you do something that earns you that SP.. which is predominantly killing things.. which means you have to get into combat. If you got free SP by just hovering around, then nobody would be fighting. :)
You may want to get some more experience in a dropship before you argue with one who spends every game for the last 2 months in one for at least a little while, if not the whole game, and can fly the best Caldari dropships as well as tested the midline Gallente one, and has every sort of vehicle module you can use productively in a dropship at maximum level ;)
I agree if you are a bad pilot and have a good gunner you won't make much SP either, but they can always leave your dropship and do what they have trained and spent their ISK to do. You're stuck with those skills and spent ISK.
Cheers. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.08.13 23:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Evane Sa'edi wrote:It would be of great use if the guns defaulted to face forward when not in use and the pilot had firing control when there are no gunners to override.
Man, I love this idea. I had never thought of that. It would be a simple solution to the current lack of air pilot controlled weapons. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.08.13 23:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
blqkt2011 wrote:
There is no such thing as a bad gunner - only a bad pilot. Some may not know how to lead their shots while your ripping your dropship 100 mile's an hour across the map, but it's not their fault that you are moving so fast. The pilot must put his ship in harms way in order for his gunners to get lot's of kill's. My gunner's get lot's of kill's (20 plus each) when I pilot, and yes I do loose dropships to enemy fire but it's a risk you have to take. I also lead my dropship during dog fight's so that my gunners get the optinum shot's. It's your responsibilty to get them the best shot's possible they just shoot the target. So there aren't any bad gunners - just bad pilot's.
I agree with most of this except your conclusion. You can line up shots, even rotate them so they are in full view of the target, and they still can try to shoot the MCP or something far off in the distance, and not the forge gunner within spitting distance of the dropship. ;) Gunners need to look front and down more than back or far to the side. Pilots see differently than gunners can, so we may not see the long distance shot you're trying to hit, but rather get you an easy shot we can see.
The primary responsibility of the pilot is first to keep the dropship alive, however, and this can mean lots of acrobatics if things get heavy. Some gunners can get impatient about this and bail out at the first sign of trouble, but a good Pilot/gunner relationship is a very productive thing, as you have said.
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The Robot Devil
45
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Posted - 2012.08.14 00:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
A good gunner on my ship will have at least 15 kills and more if they don't eject at the first amount of damage taken and if they have a mic it's really fun. I like to hover low so my mercs can kill and I get blew up lots, that's the name of the game. Don't fly with something you are not ready to lose. I know I am flying too low when my gunners get taken out by an AR fire. I guess the worst thing is not getting spawn points, I broke out of the red line the other night, called a drop ship and spawned almost the whole team over A while my gunners gave cover. That should count for something because the clone module is hungry for resources and if there is no clone bank on board I have to pick people up. Pilots you know how hard that is. |
Evane Sa'edi
Celtic Anarchy
62
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Posted - 2012.08.16 19:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
A pilot is always going to be dependent on the gunner, since there is no pilot controlled guns. (Yet, maybe?) Its the pilot's duty to try and present the gunners a selection of targets, be they PBI's, moving ground cans or flying deathtraps. Gunners need to learn what target to fire at first, how much to lead a target and when to switch to defence of the dropship. An eratic flight manover by the pilot may mean that that there is an hostile dropship approching or that a Forge gunner had a near miss and this now needs to be killed.
Tip on ejecting - once the DS has caught fire is a good time for the passangers and gunners to abandon ship. The pilot should atempt to make sure all crew are out before pointing his craft's nose down and ejecting himself. This will ensure that DS doesnot drop directly onto his head and kill him, but continues in a forward movement away from his landing site. |
EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.08.16 21:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:There are times when I fly a 160k ISK ship for 15 minutes or more, my guys gunning get 15 or more kills on each side of the ship and guys spawning from my ship over objectives to hack them and I get 12000 SP. I work hard on supporting the team and communicating but get very little in return. There are lots of times when I can't even get a gunner to fly for whatever reason and I get shot from the sky. I go 0 kills and less than 20k sp when my gunners are at the top of the kill boards. I try not to cry about things but it does seem like pilots get the short end. Also, all vehicles should have ammunition limits, I run the AT-1 launchers and it doesn't makes sense that the missiles are infinite.
Your AT-1s are doing little to Sigarus's as it is and you want the devs to gimp them......no
I do agree with most of what your saying.But even the XT-1 do little to stop the serious tanks.Ammo cap no. |
Kengfa
138
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Posted - 2012.08.17 11:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
The pilot has to hand around a can to his passengers asking for donations. |
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