DUST Search - Precursor Patch Notes

Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:

Adduuuh wrote:

To be truly and completely honest....handheld weapons should not be stronger than HAV weapons. The basic forge gun is practically as strong as the the strongest railgun AND CCP is only making forge guns stronger? I'm sorry, but the way updates are going having a vehicle will only "be there for looks". Why dont you try making vehicles actually worth the multiple million skill points and isk to acquire instead of just making new versions that will still not be effective? They all are still getting 1-3 shotted by anyone who looks at it funny.

This comes from a Sagaris user. I have every skill maxed that effects tanks and tank modules. I have the most effective possible build I could come up with for a defense based shield tank with about 50% damage reduction, somewhere around 6000 shields, a thoroughly needed shield booster, and the strongest railgun. This tank takes about 4 forge gun rounds on a good day. Evil

I have stopped playing this game due to the saddening vehicles and I'm sure I'm not the first or the last. CCP, quit wasting your players' time and fix some real balance problems instead of adding aim assist and homing grenades.

If 4 rounds from a Forge Gun are taking you out, then either you're doing it wrong, or they're doing it very, very right.

Limitations of infantry with Forge Guns vs tanks with Railguns:
1. Infantry have far lower eHP, they're much easier to kill.
2. Infantry have limited ammo supply, vehicles have unlimited ammo.
3. Infantry move slower, tanks can evade them easily if they're paying attention.

Aside from that, how often do you see an infantry guy with a score of 30/2 at the end of the match? Rarely. How often do you see a guy in a Sagaris/Madrugar go 30/2? Frequently. Perhaps you simply need to find a different role on the battlefield.

Edit: Those were just the limitations that are a big deal and I could bring up off the top of my head, I'm sure the list could go on.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Adduuuh Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 2	Posted - 2012.08.10 20:10:00 - [1] - Quote To be truly and completely honest....handheld weapons should not be stronger than HAV weapons. The basic forge gun is practically as strong as the the strongest railgun AND CCP is only making forge guns stronger? I'm sorry, but the way updates are going having a vehicle will only "be there for looks". Why dont you try making vehicles actually worth the multiple million skill points and isk to acquire instead of just making new versions that will still not be effective? They all are still getting 1-3 shotted by anyone who looks at it funny. This comes from a Sagaris user. I have every skill maxed that effects tanks and tank modules. I have the most effective possible build I could come up with for a defense based shield tank with about 50% damage reduction, somewhere around 6000 shields, a thoroughly needed shield booster, and the strongest railgun. This tank takes about 4 forge gun rounds on a good day(I REALLY hope this is just a bug???). I have stopped playing this game due to the saddening vehicles and I'm sure I'm not the first or the last. CCP, don't waste your players' time - fix a few real balance problems instead of adding aim assist and homing grenades please.
Adduuuh Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 2	Posted - 2012.08.10 20:44:00 - [2] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Adduuuh wrote: To be truly and completely honest....handheld weapons should not be stronger than HAV weapons. The basic forge gun is practically as strong as the the strongest railgun AND CCP is only making forge guns stronger? I'm sorry, but the way updates are going having a vehicle will only "be there for looks". Why dont you try making vehicles actually worth the multiple million skill points and isk to acquire instead of just making new versions that will still not be effective? They all are still getting 1-3 shotted by anyone who looks at it funny. This comes from a Sagaris user. I have every skill maxed that effects tanks and tank modules. I have the most effective possible build I could come up with for a defense based shield tank with about 50% damage reduction, somewhere around 6000 shields, a thoroughly needed shield booster, and the strongest railgun. This tank takes about 4 forge gun rounds on a good day. I have stopped playing this game due to the saddening vehicles and I'm sure I'm not the first or the last. CCP, quit wasting your players' time and fix some real balance problems instead of adding aim assist and homing grenades. If 4 rounds from a Forge Gun are taking you out, then either you're doing it wrong, or they're doing it very, very right. Limitations of infantry with Forge Guns vs tanks with Railguns: 1. Infantry have far lower eHP, they're much easier to kill. 2. Infantry have limited ammo supply, vehicles have unlimited ammo. 3. Infantry move slower, tanks can evade them easily if they're paying attention. Aside from that, how often do you see an infantry guy with a score of 30/2 at the end of the match? Rarely. How often do you see a guy in a Sagaris/Madrugar go 30/2? Frequently. Perhaps you simply need to find a different role on the battlefield. Edit: Those were just the limitations that are a big deal and I could bring up off the top of my head, I'm sure the list could go on. To start - EVE universe. So very, very NOT right. 1. Infantry have lower ehp, but can hide places tanks can't aim to because of tanks' ****** vertical aim - so this doesnt matter. 2. Infantry have limited ammo...until they use ammo hives. (I know hives did just get patched) 3. Infantry move slower - yes - but they can also stand places where they can veiw the entire stage and there really isn't anywhere to go and evade at. Now as for those scores of 30/2 - you're right other than the fact that's three people working together hardcore covering each other's backs to get that score. This is EVE - it's not just one man doing everything winning for everyone. Not to mention the other team has to be generally kinda bad. Hope that fills you in some since I'm guessing you don't use tanks much? Now, part of the real problem here. Surya/Sagaris with a max railgun have their damge cap out around 2k-2.2k, maybe 2.4k if you want to be a glass cannon build. A forge gun (a weap 1/5th in size and should be reflective amount of damage) starts at 2k and peaks easily at 2.5k - more than a fully loaded out tank. And their bullets frequently become invisible. And the shooter is harder to find. And they shoot faster than a railgun. So should a single person be able to easily take out 3 people in 6-8 seconds? Less time than it takes for a tank to start moving and go 4-5 yards? I think not. Sniper rifles with all speed head-shots aren't even this efficient unless they're only hitting militia dropsuits. So I'd understand if this was only with mitia tanks. But it's not. However, if I'm just mistaken and the weapons should be like this fine. This game will probably only be going downhill from lack of overall game balance or tanks will need a buff like more shields/armor/move speed/etc along with alot of other stuff needing balance control. That way we don't have some herp-a-derp loser with a forge gun missing a shot on his target and killing every vehicle on the stage before there's even some resemblance of real vehicle combat.
Adduuuh Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 2	Posted - 2012.08.10 21:18:00 - [3] - Quote The reply thing bugged out on me T_T I'll edit it Edit: It has been edited.
Adduuuh Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 2	Posted - 2012.08.10 23:20:00 - [4] - Quote Zeran Haggai wrote: A proto assault Forge starts at 1.5k. If you max out Weapon skill and Forge Proficiency that would put you at 2100. If you stack 3 complex damage mods you could get it up to 2.55k, but i can't imagine you'll have room for much survivability or a decent side arm, which mean's you might as well lay down and die when anyone in an assault or scout suit see's you. I fought a Sag yesterday in ambush that ate 5 of my forge rounds without his repper up, i had to fire 2 more before that to bait him into activating it so i could wait out the timer and kill him so 7 rounds total, and the only reason he died was because he did a crappy job of getting his tank behind cover. I pumped near half my total ammo into it, and if i didn't know wtf i was doing could have used a lot more and probably still not killed him. Tanks are fine, AV weaponry is fine, both do their jobs well. Edit: Also don't takn rail guns have a much more significant splash damage? I don't have a tank fit so i don't know numbers off the top of my head, but misses with a tank rail seem to hurt a lot. Maybe why I'm taking so much damage is something bugging on me then? If so tears.... Also, all but one (the best) railgun have 150 splash damage, the best one has 350 - so unless the player maxed out all those turret skills, their railguns won't do much splash damage. So missing definitely hurts alot until you're as accurate as me
Adduuuh Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 2	Posted - 2012.08.11 04:30:00 - [5] - Quote Zeran Haggai wrote: My best guess is you're just getting hit by multiple forge guns most of the time. Ever since we got that first free 1mil SP pretty much everyone has an AV fit with a swarm or a forge and as soon as a tank shows up everyone takes them out. With the way registering shield/armor damage often seems to have a delay if they are attacking close enough together it could seem like one attack. I know and it's possible, but a small handheld weapon should be at least somewhat weaker than fully loaded out, heavily armored vehicles. Should be: Railgun>Forge Gun. Ya know, seeing as how Blaster>AR and Rocket Pods>Swarms?