DUST Search - Av and heavy weapons and suggestion

Bones1182 wrote:

Avenger 245 wrote:

Ten-Sidhe wrote:

Other weapon work on both, av grenades for one. Sniper rifles, ar, and smg can take out dropships and lav. I have killed a few tanks with smg, including marauder. I killed enough one match a sagris ran from me chasing it with smg. Big smile

I did most of damage to his last sagaris with av grenades just finished him with smg so it showered in kill feed, guy must of thought I had the smg of the gods way he ran away. I have also killed two dropships in a row with mass driver, took a lot of practice after seeing it done in a dust video ccp released. Mass driver can also take out tower camping dropships from ground, It can hit them from spots they can not return fire too. Smile

I have been sniped by forge guns, the players that did it were very good players. Having used a forge gun, they had skills to pull off those shots.

Yes but the FG is the only one that can do it solo and consistantly, if they neref accaurcy and range on the FG it would still be able to kill infintry it just wouldnt be doing it as much.

Have you ever killed a tank at full health with a smg? Milita dont count those things are made of paper

If they nerf the accuracy at medium range how do you hit a tank at long range?

The answer is you wouldn't very often, since tanks move almost 3x the speed of almost any dropsuit(note thus only an estimate).

Also the forge gun is supposed to be effective at over half a mile against vehichles, meaning it can hit them reliably, once we have maps with a larger variety of areas or at least the old maps back you won't see as many infantry kills with the forge.


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Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.08 16:25:00 - [1] - Quote Forge guns are powerful AV weapons kinda like modern day bazookas what bothers me is that they good at agnk ainst infintry I think that lowering the accaurcy at medium range to the point they cant hit infintry but can still hit vehicles would help, also I think they shpuld have a range lowered as well because sniping with a forge gun is an abuse of what the eapon was intended for. Heavy machine gun, this weapon sucks the hmg should have good dmg and heat build up should be a little slower. On another note however if tech 2 versions are add can we have a suppresive fire hmg with stats that favor lots of spraying massive belt sizes and low heat build up. rocket launcher pretty much a medium range rocket launchers that fires a single dumb rocket it could fill the light slots and do twice the dmg of a single sl missile(so sl still do more dmg if all the missle hit). This would be a great light weapon for assault suits but if it is made light slot move the swarm to heavy and make it do more dmg. Mass driver, is a very weak weapon used by logi it needs a splash dmg buff and more ammo to make it more viable. On another thread I auggested a module that shows the trajectory of your weapon for most guns this will be a white line pointing out from their gun, however it would be useful for MD showing their trajectory. Mortar, a simple side arm weapon that would give more options to some players, think of it as a mini mass driver with low dmg but lots of splash range. It would be a useful support weapon. Edit - for people disuccing the forge gun read this for my take on the fg role A recap for my issue with the forge gun. What is getting me with the forge gun is how it effects gameplay and choices. The forge gun should be a powerful and CLOSE range and MID range AV weapon that complements the Swarms long range capacity. The forge gun should not be a all range weapon a forge gunner shouldnt be trying to take out a tank at long range, it should be the other half of the AV weapondry coin, not the single best AV tool. The forge guns is the only heavy weapon worth investing in because on top of its insane AV killing power it CAN kill infintry regularly and consistantly. So why would a heavy want any other weapon if the FG can kill vehicles at any range and it can deal with infintry. The forge gun is better at killing infintry then the HMG which is wrong and it causes the hmg to not be used. What im suggesting is to nerf the accaurcy ao that the forge gun is a useful AV tool at close and mid range. this would cause the Swarm to fill the other half of mid and long range which would cause AV people to choose between being a threat at range or being a threat up close. If the accaurcy is nerfed enough to miss infintry but not tanks at mid range(combined with the buff HMG also on this thread) would cause heavys to choose between AV or AP.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.08 17:02:00 - [2] - Quote Yeah I know I could of sworn I mention it as being a module you have to fit if you want the trajectory thing
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.08 19:50:00 - [3] - Quote I figured people be mad about the suggested forge gun nerf they usally are.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.08 21:59:00 - [4] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Avenger 245 wrote: I figured people be mad about the suggested forge gun nerf they usally are. Considering there's basically no splash damage, you have to hit someone directly with the shot to kill them. There is also no sight of any sort, meaning you can zoom in, and the targeting "Crosshairs" are just a pillbox, meaning that your shot isn't even going to always go straight. Complaining about forge guns being used to snipe is like complaining you're getting picked off by a broken scopeless bolt action rifle fired from the hip from sniping range. Does it happen? Sure, people get lucky. But it's not an issue that needs to be addressed. I've been killed exactly twice by a forge gun while on foot during the entire beta, to me that doesn't constitute as abuse. Making the swarm launcher a heavy weapon is also stupidly redundant. Forge guns are far more effective AV weapons than swarm launchers, so its pointless for a heavy to use a swarm launcher which does less damage, has less ammo, totally worthless against infantry, and has the disadvantage of travel time. Swarm Launchers offer a less effective AV solution for lighter units, which are not really meant to be AV Units, but they can double as one if needed. If you're gonna go heavy and want to do AV, bring the forge gun, the far superior weapon. I don't see why people feel the need to fix things that aren't broken. I have been on a few matchs were a forgegun gets on a building and spawn camps the defenders last spawn and getting a kill every time. Ive also played and been shot multiple times at medium range by a forge gun, its stops being luck after a.certian point they are av weapons it doesnt need to be accaurct to kill a tank. So even if they nerf the forge gun accaurcy enough to make it miss infintry but not vehicles then it shouldnt affect the fg ability to kill tanks. I suggested that the SL get buffed up for heavy uses so the simple rocket launcher would fill its current role.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.09 00:24:00 - [5] - Quote ill try them out this weekend, as for the grammer and spelling mistakes yall will have to forgive me its hard to type on my phone and my laptop died.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.09 06:22:00 - [6] - Quote Minmatar Slave 74136 wrote: I think the forge gun has enough drawbacks to offset its lethality, when i get sniped in my dropsuit by a forge gun i got nuthin but respect for the gunner who could nail me with that big pig. (on a side note the description for the forge gun says that it fires its kinetic penetrator at speeds in excess of 7,000 meters per second, that works out to around mach 20, or the speed of the now -retired space shuttle after it makes reentry, lol. :) ) Dunno about a targetting module for the mass driver, i wouldn't use them myself. Im actually better with the MD than with any other weapon, ARs included. But then again i've been playing heavy in the Tribes series for the PC since 1999, I can nail just about anyone with the mortar in that game. (ive made moving flag cappers go boom at range.) trajectory weapons in video games is just one of those things that I 'get' lol. I know it takes skill but my issue with it comes from the fact that the forge gun IS being used to consistently kill infinrtry. I see it as solely a AV weapon not a AP weapon in the right hands. I know it takes skill but so does all the other stuff, the thing is a skillful AR player is a threat to any and all infintry, and sniper is a threat to any slow moving infintry, a sub is good against infintry at close range, a hmg is supposed to be good at any and all infintry and a SL is good against vehicles at medium and long range but not infintry. However the forgegun in the right hands is a clear theat to vehicles at any range, and is a clear threat to any infintry in the right hands. Yeah the FG might miss but normally it doesnt and it only take one forge blast to OHK any suit it takes an intire mag from a creodron to drop the heavy wielding it. My issue is it is the only weapon that can be used effectly against both vehicles and infintry.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.09 17:36:00 - [7] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Other weapon work on both, av grenades for one. Sniper rifles, ar, and smg can take out dropships and lav. I have killed a few tanks with smg, including marauder. I killed enough one match a sagris ran from me chasing it with smg. I did most of damage to his last sagaris with av grenades just finished him with smg so it showered in kill feed, guy must of thought I had the smg of the gods way he ran away. I have also killed two dropships in a row with mass driver, took a lot of practice after seeing it done in a dust video ccp released. Mass driver can also take out tower camping dropships from ground, It can hit them from spots they can not return fire too. I have been sniped by forge guns, the players that did it were very good players. Having used a forge gun, they had skills to pull off those shots. Yes but the FG is the only one that can do it solo and consistantly, if they neref accaurcy and range on the FG it would still be able to kill infintry it just wouldnt be doing it as much. Have you ever killed a tank at full health with a smg? Milita dont count those things are made of paper
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:07:00 - [8] - Quote Bones1182 wrote: Avenger 245 wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: Other weapon work on both, av grenades for one. Sniper rifles, ar, and smg can take out dropships and lav. I have killed a few tanks with smg, including marauder. I killed enough one match a sagris ran from me chasing it with smg. I did most of damage to his last sagaris with av grenades just finished him with smg so it showered in kill feed, guy must of thought I had the smg of the gods way he ran away. I have also killed two dropships in a row with mass driver, took a lot of practice after seeing it done in a dust video ccp released. Mass driver can also take out tower camping dropships from ground, It can hit them from spots they can not return fire too. I have been sniped by forge guns, the players that did it were very good players. Having used a forge gun, they had skills to pull off those shots. Yes but the FG is the only one that can do it solo and consistantly, if they neref accaurcy and range on the FG it would still be able to kill infintry it just wouldnt be doing it as much. Have you ever killed a tank at full health with a smg? Milita dont count those things are made of paper If they nerf the accuracy at medium range how do you hit a tank at long range? The answer is you wouldn't very often, since tanks move almost 3x the speed of almost any dropsuit(note thus only an estimate). Also the forge gun is supposed to be effective at over half a mile against vehichles, meaning it can hit them reliably, once we have maps with a larger variety of areas or at least the old maps back you won't see as many infantry kills with the forge. I was under the impression FG were short to med range av weapons not all around av weapon isnt that what swarms are for? But it stands to reason if yall can accaurctly hit infintry with the FG now at medium range even if they nerf the accuarcy enough to miss infintry at mid range skillful forge gunners would still be able to hit vehicles at long range
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.09 23:54:00 - [9] - Quote When im sniping I dont expect my biggest worry to be forge gunners but those are the only guys who can kill me it seems. Its not an issue with the stats the issue is the forgw gun is overpowered for a weapon I consider to be short and medium range AV weapon, the swarm is a mid to long range AV weapon. So why should the forge gun be good at all range and be a cobsiderable threat to infintry Forgive spelling did this on my phone
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.10 00:33:00 - [10] - Quote A recap for my issue with the forge gun. What is getting me with the forge gun is how it effects gameplay and choices. The forge gun should be a powerful and CLOSE range and MID range AV weapon that complements the Swarms long range capacity. The forge gun should not be a all range weapon a forge gunner shouldnt be trying to take out a tank at long range, it should be the other half of the AV weapondry coin, not the single best AV tool. The forge guns is the only heavy weapon worth investing in because on top of its insane AV killing power it CAN kill infintry regularly and consistantly. So why would a heavy want any other weapon if the FG can kill vehicles at any range and it can deal with infintry. The forge gun is better at killing infintry then the HMG which is wrong and it causes the hmg to not be used. What im suggesting is to nerf the accaurcy ao that the forge gun is a useful AV tool at close and mid range. this would cause the Swarm to fill the other half of mid and long range which would cause AV people to choose between being a threat at range or being a threat up close. If the accaurcy is nerfed enough to miss infintry but not tanks at mid range(combined with the buff HMG also on this thread) would cause heavys to choose between AV or AP. Here a explantion that should communcate my thoughts on the matter better.

Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.10 00:53:00 - [11] - Quote Um no, the orginal point of this thread wasnt FG. Speaking of the orginal point of the thread a simple rocket launcher doing more dmg than a single swarm missile could be a side arm but have only. 2 rounds. Edit. The orginal point was av and heavy stuff so of couse FG was in here but the thread request 1the FG nerf 2 the HMG buff 3 tech 2 version of the HMG for suppresive fire 4 a new rocket launcher weapon 5 buff for mass driver 6 a new side arm as a mortor. Edit that was your response "its a anti air weapon" Normal you make a real good point that argues your side well bone, but to point it out the swarm is used to kill anything it can lock on too, and this isnt realy as big a problem as far as weapon not being used for their intended role as the FG being used to sqaush dropsuits. I mean people are actually requesting the swarm lock on to even more stuff
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.10 14:12:00 - [12] - Quote I still stand by my point that a weapon in dust should be balanced for its intended role on the A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A line up, and I will always argue for balancing changes that effect that, just like I argued against the breach and the REs. Also I think I have 1 thread were the main point is FG the other 3 just mention it along with something else
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.10 15:00:00 - [13] - Quote Well yes but the fg was mention so was hmg swarms mass drivers mortors, so yeah it was in there it was only mention cause its an av and/or a heavy weapon. Its less of a main topic and more of a point within the general topic to rework how AV stuff all fits together.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.10 15:05:00 - [14] - Quote Bones1182 wrote: So again have you actually used the forge gun yet or are you still basing this on the fact that someone managed to kill you theory when you think it should not have? Edit If you put the point in your OP then it is a main topic of discussion. to more directly answer your question, im not playing thiss week im waiting till after the reset. But come next build after im trained up in my assault/sniper build and my rapid/assault build I replace my assault/av build with a forge gun build
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:27:00 - [15] - Quote I still say a weapon thats supposed to be a AV shouldnt be a viable AP weapon as for the range o think the swarm filling mid to long and the forge being short and mid range would be better for gameplay by making player choose between long range AV or short range AV the forge doesnt need accaurcy or range to be a vehicle killer Edit. Fine give me a hour or two and ill set up a forge gun build and judge this weapon first hand.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.10 20:27:00 - [16] - Quote Avengers forge build outfitted with basic stuffs nuked 9 dropsuits got 2 kill assist and died 5 times in my latest match, in some cases I was getting kills I thought best left to snipers. But dont get me wrong my first match with this new build was horible it took me a moment to get used to the charge, but after I learned to time it the forge was a brutal weapon killing infintry at medium short and long range and making vehicles run like hell. I will admit that if I missed that first shot I was good and dead, which is why I am and can practiced because if I had a bit more experence with this weapon that kill death would have been 16/1(i made a stupid one time, practice doesnt help my habit pf making like wile e coyote)
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.10 22:48:00 - [17] - Quote A major point of my suggestion was that forg would become short primary AV weapons and swarms would be long range AV weapons. The forge gun would become short range AV but do to the accaurcy nerf they wouldnt be a long range threat were as the swarms do to their spreading out and habit of plowing into things would mostly be longer range AV weapons
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.11 18:39:00 - [18] - Quote I never noticed the tell tell jerkyness from the forge that would indicate excessive aim assist, however aometimes I would over shoot my oppent when I turned it a little to hard and would miss. But will see how this effects it In the next build but in some instances I felt like the gun was being abnormally ungainly but now that I think about it yhis might be be auto aim messing up my normal aim. Will see how it works in the next build. But in the name of balancing and optinions I think it would be better for the forge to fill shot range AV and the swarm fill long range AV.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.11 21:58:00 - [19] - Quote My early post clearly say short to mid and mid to long. I just shorten it because I thought I already said that and according to your take on medium range medium range is a clear threat to a tank also your forgetting how cluttered maps are its not like the diffrence between an assault and a heavy a tank can literly not go were infintry, you make it sound like it has constant 360 coverage at all times in your post as well even fully maned tanks are pretty blind on their right side if they are looking any other direction,. Besides if a heavy couldnt use the cover around at short range then it would make no diffrence at any range if theres no cover to begen with then the tank will own at any range. However if the heavy uses the map he can threaten the tank because even with all the tanks range and power it is still a clumbersome vehicle. Nerfing the accaurcy so the gun is only effective at close to mid range would not limit the forge use, the forge would still be heavly used in urban and cluttered maps where the long range swarm would be less effective. So forgw would still be a useful and wouldnt be so OP they would fill in the urban and dense maps AV roles. Now it is my firm beleive that lowering the accaurcy on the forgw wont destroy the weapons use and would go along way to balance the choice of AV fighting. The forge could fill the role of AV weapon at close and mid range filling the criteria for urban and dense map AV needs, while the Swarm would become the mid and long range AV choice great for more spacious and wide open maps allowing players to choose based off what map they were going into rather than all ways choicing the forge.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.12 00:52:00 - [20] - Quote Kinda the point of this thread

Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.12 01:56:00 - [21] - Quote I thought that was the point of me explaining how it would match swarms as mid to long as a counter part for short and mid range. I mean I very clearly explained that it would give AV specialist a choice by being short or long AV weapon. I honestly thought that was the point of the top post on this page. did I not explain how it would fit into gameplay and cause player to think about what kinda AV they would be? What ever the discription says doesnt matter im trying to point out a issue with the forge gun and a way to give gameplay options. As for a specfic reason well its a big heavy peice of equipment that fires a high velocity round from a rather short barrel when compared to other railgun shooting the same size ammo. So accaurcy would be hard to achive with such a short muzzle compared to other railguns. Also the fact the sights are about the size of the cross hairs for most weapons its pretty accaurct if you know how to use it.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.12 16:22:00 - [22] - Quote im suggestion is offering an interesting element to AV warfare regardless of what the description most assualt rifles when strafing have the same size hit area, also theres a pretty good chance that the forge round is going to peg what ever is in the middle.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.12 17:11:00 - [23] - Quote I when im the sniper moving kinda stupid because it mess up my stable shooting position, so moving not realy an option for snipers or I will no longer be a threat. I just want there to be more AV weapons avalible for diffrent circumstances and for yhere to not be just one primary AV weapon I think AV people should have to pick a type of AV to go with depending on the situation. I dont think there should be a single major AV weapon and the single AV weapon shouldnt be as effective against infintry as it is now?
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.12 21:28:00 - [24] - Quote Bones1182 wrote: Then suggest something besides nerfing one of only two existing AV weapons. Come up with new options that fill the category you think they should. The forge would then most likely become relegated to.long range as it should be. Heavies move slow already give them.a forge they move slower still. Tanks move fast and deal more damage oh and can take a whole lot more damage. It just doesn't make sense when tanks are borderline OP in most situations and outright god like in others. simple low ammo rpg for side arm lower the accaurcy on the forge so av players can pick between long or short increase damage of swarms ive also suggested on other forum to make a mass driver built for av action i not seeing your point on how this would kill the forge, the forge woulds till be a good weapon just not the only option, tanks lack mobility that infintry take for granted and infintry can easly slip behind cover that the tank cant follow.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.13 03:47:00 - [25] - Quote Bones1182 wrote: Chao Wolf wrote: Range is the only thing that can save a forge gun wielding heavy. The turn speed and movement speed are to low for up cqc, and at mid range its to easy to loss sight of your target. The best way I have found to use the fg is to get a decently high vantage point and hope I can put enough rounds into the hav to kill it before it finds complete cover. This exactly nerfing accuracy so that it is close to mid range is just horrible. This guy just doesn't like to be killed ny an AV weapon but suggests an RPG type that will ne used the exact same way to OHK infantry. So I just don't get it. On the map how often do you use the forge for long range shot? Also the rpg would have 2 or 3 rounds max and would have dmg type for AV so yeah it might OHK normal it wont be used against infintry. I going to argue because I think it effect gameplay by making it a choice between forge and swarm and making it less useable vs infintry because an AV weapon doesnt need to be able to drop infintry its a AV weapon and shouldnt be so readily avalible to use vs infintry. GM since this topic has gotten stuck with both sides using the same argument over and over and both sides showing no signs of changing opinions what do you think?
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.13 15:14:00 - [26] - Quote I be happy and I think a 10% or 20% drop would accomplish what im asking for.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.13 15:48:00 - [27] - Quote I think it should be a short range to mid range AV weapon my suggestion supports that, but I will try and see how well a forge deals with tanks next week.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.15 20:28:00 - [28] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Bones1182 wrote: Well forge gun got nerfed if you die to it now it was almost pure luck on the part of the gunner. I would still recommend you test it out against tanks. Also don't stand still and try to snipe the forge user not at any range he can easily see you anyway. Good luck out there. Exactly, now Forge Gun is total crap, I will not skill it when game launch. They didn't touch splash but they cut range - dramatically - now I'm not able to shot camping dropship on the tower. So big "yeaaa!" for everyone that cry on FG, now you will be constantly killed be DS that this time see you. I think they fixed that to
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.15 21:49:00 - [29] - Quote No I mean I have not seen a dropship up there In a while.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.25 16:24:00 - [30] - Quote Well bones I'm testing heavys right now got a okish hmg build going, and I'm working towards forge. But I've noticed there arnt to many tanks riding about this build so the forgegun not coming into play much. I will get around to testing it in the field and then I will tell you my new take on them But hey if a dev wants to help a tester prove a point for me send 1mil xp to prisoner 52351 and help me test out my suggestions.