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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
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Posted - 2012.08.08 10:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Does anyone who supports this idea actually drive tanks most of the time, or even often? If you take away gun control from the driver, you need to create something compelling for the driver to do. As a long-time Battlefield tank ***** (20 tank hours in BF3 alone, over 20% of my gametime), I don't see much else out there.
I drive tanks to melt faces. If I wanted just to drive around, I'd get in a jeep.
Maybe controlling ECM or other defensive measures would bring something to the driver's role, but I doubt it would be enough to make driving a tank fun.
To put a finer point: DUST has tanks, and tanks need drivers. If driving a tank is not a compelling, fun experience, nobody will drive tanks. Some might like that outcome, but DUST is supposed to be a battlefield FPS - and for that we need tanks. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 11:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jonquill Caronite wrote:As it stands I have enough trouble keeping retards without mics out of my vehicle, because whenever I get out to repair my crippled tank INEVITABLY my brain dead turret gunner switches seats and takes my 10% armor vehicle right back into the battle to get blown up...
That's a rather bad faux pas, and will get better when we get more FPS players.
Gunner is supposed to stay inside the tank at all times, protecting whoever is repairing. Driver is the driver unless she allows others to take over. Unfortunately it happens occasionally in games with randoms even in hardcore FPSs.
One way to stop that would be a password/PIN to enter driver's seat for anyone other than the original driver/owner of the tank. Possibly this would reset to zero or allow teammates if the original driver/owner dies, or goes too far away from the tank. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 12:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:May I suggest a change of thought direction on this matter?
The discussion right now is all about the driver's options in a tank he owns and how keeping him as just a driver will make the owner unhappy.
But what if the owner wasn't the driver but the commander? Work with me on this...
Think of a real life situation. Say you have a really cool vehicle with a gazillion gadgets and capabilities. These all require you to not be driving as that takes too much distraction. If you'd own such a vehicle you'd get a good driver but stay with your gadgets (or large turret + vehicle command in our example).
So let's change the way we think of tanks. The tank owner should be the tank commander and not the driver. That makes a lot more sense to me and pretty much solves all these disputes.
What do you think?
For better or worse, every FPS I've played which has tanks has the driver controlling the main gun. Changing that notion is of course possible, but whether it's doable is questionable given the reasons I listed in a previous comment. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 13:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:Dust is changing many things in the FPS world. Dust, for starters, is bringing a hell of a lot teamwork than anyone is used to. It's bringing game support for defined command structures.
So why not also change some fundementals? Tank drivers don't shoot. They drive and they're damn good at driving.
Not new. MAG had a command structure, and support for true teamwork much better than DUST currently has, and communication which didn't even require a headset to be useful when playing with randoms. Even Battlefield 2 had these to a certain extent - which was dumbed down in BF3 to compete with CoD, but that's another topic - and so did Natural Selection.
I'm all for changing the genre - it surely needs it - and mixing things up, but you need to offer more than just driving to a tank driver, otherwise very few people will do it. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sandair Mulholy wrote:- Have the low level tanks be driver-gunners, but the high level tank separate the driver and gunner. So for newbies and fresh players, they could get in tanks and have fun, but for the serious stomping power, you would need more collaboration.
Not a bad idea at all. Keep the main gun with the driver on the lighter Assault/C&C/ECM/etc tanks, but separate it for Main Battle Tanks. That way those drivers who insist on shooting (me) would still be able to melt faces, but we'd also get heavy MBT which would be a formidable weapons platform.
There would still need to be more to do for the driver than just driving, though, and that's my main concern. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 00:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alshadow wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:Sandair Mulholy wrote:- Have the low level tanks be driver-gunners, but the high level tank separate the driver and gunner. So for newbies and fresh players, they could get in tanks and have fun, but for the serious stomping power, you would need more collaboration. Not a bad idea at all. Keep the main gun with the driver on the lighter Assault/C&C/ECM/etc tanks, but separate it for Main Battle Tanks. That way those drivers who insist on shooting (me) would still be able to melt faces, but we'd also get heavy MBT which would be a formidable weapons platform. There would still need to be more to do for the driver than just driving, though, and that's my main concern. make all the current tanks have slightly less armor and shield and alittle less pg and cpu... then interduce a whole new kind of tank that would be even beter than the ones we have now but be much more expensive and have seperate diver/gunner, make the current ones LAVs and the new ones HAVs then make the jeeps like recon vehicles or (insert clever name here)
Just because you built it doesn't necessarily mean people will use it. My point all along has been that people play FPSs to shoot things. Making tank driver a gunless FPS player makes him... FP player. There needs to be something fun for the driver to do, and driving alone is not sufficient - and my imagination is not vivid enough to come up with ideas what that could be. I haven't seen anyone else have any ideas, either.
Again, any tank driver actually thinks this is a good idea, or is it just those who either play grunts or pilots? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 00:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:Alshadow wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:Sandair Mulholy wrote:- Have the low level tanks be driver-gunners, but the high level tank separate the driver and gunner. So for newbies and fresh players, they could get in tanks and have fun, but for the serious stomping power, you would need more collaboration. Not a bad idea at all. Keep the main gun with the driver on the lighter Assault/C&C/ECM/etc tanks, but separate it for Main Battle Tanks. That way those drivers who insist on shooting (me) would still be able to melt faces, but we'd also get heavy MBT which would be a formidable weapons platform. There would still need to be more to do for the driver than just driving, though, and that's my main concern. make all the current tanks have slightly less armor and shield and alittle less pg and cpu... then interduce a whole new kind of tank that would be even beter than the ones we have now but be much more expensive and have seperate diver/gunner, make the current ones LAVs and the new ones HAVs then make the jeeps like recon vehicles or (insert clever name here) Just because you built it doesn't necessarily mean people will use it. My point all along has been that people play FPSs to shoot things. Making tank driver a gunless FPS player makes him... FP player. There needs to be something fun for the driver to do, and driving alone is not sufficient - and my imagination is not vivid enough to come up with ideas what that could be. I haven't seen anyone else have any ideas, either. Again, any tank driver actually thinks this is a good idea, or is it just those who either play grunts or pilots? So by that logic, Logistics, dropship pilots, LAV pilots, ad those who focus on knives don't belong/don't matter because they don't shoot? Remember that next time you get res-ed or act gunner. Also, the RE players of this build will attest that their gun just gets in the way of carrying more explosives. And that something fun the driver is doing is dodging cannon shells and Forge Gun bolts while running all the modules.
We're talking tanks here, not applying flawed logic. To rehash my points from previous posts: I have extensive tanking experience, and #1 reason I drive tanks is to kill people. Take that away from me and I'll go to my other favorite role in FPSs: anti-tank grunt. I bet that vast majority of tank drivers wouldn't drive tanks unless they can **** **** up. Tank driver expectations are different than other vehicles: tanks are designed to destroy and kill, not to move people or do logistics. And the lack of support for this idea from tank drivers is a testament to the feasibility of the OP's idea.
It's perfectly fine to challenge and change that expectation and I would embrace it like I have said before, but something compelling and fun has to take the place of gunplay; nobody has offered enough, yet. Driving around and dodging is not enough. |
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