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Free Beers
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1039
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Posted - 2012.08.06 17:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
After testing Aurum suits and equipment I found myself underwhelmed for the most part. As a potential consumer I found myself unwilling to purchase inferior suits when I had low skill points, not enough impact of intermediate suits and equipment, and little use or variety of them when I had maxed out my skills out.
So I offer the following solution to address these issues and still not violate the Time Vs Money principle that CCP utilizes. This is not a pay to win solution.
All suits and equipment are split into 4 groups. Each group contains suits and equipment for each skill level as they do currently. They do not include vehicles at this point, but can include vehicle modules.
1. Isk only items. This is what we see in the market currently. Nothing needs to change.
2.Aurum only items. The suits and equipment should be equal to their isk counterparts but usable with 1 level less in skill points. Example with level 4 assault suit skill I can purchase an Aurum proto suit. The stats should be similar to isk proto suits but does not have to be exact. The level 5 Aurum suits or equipment should be an alternative to the isk only level 5. Example, is if a proto assault suit has a bonus to shield recharge the Aurum suit could have a bonus to shield buffer. Note: there should never be anything substantial like 2 extra high slots with Aurum suits.
This idea follows the Time vs Money principle since anyone can acquire and use any piece of equipment when they have earned enough skill points without having to spend Aurum.
3.Isk + Loyalty Points or Aurum. Loyalty points (LP) are acquired currently in EVE when running missions for npc corporations. In Dust LP can be earned by PVP or PVE for specific Non Player Corps (NPC). A positive corp standing should earn the dust merc benefits such as lower LP cost or access to better items at the corp LP store. The items that exist in the LP store can also be purchased using Aurum. Again this follows Time vs Money principle since with enough effort anyone can acquire LP and purchase goods.
Now everyone take a deep breath. Items in the LP stores can be better than isk or Aurum only items. This gives CCP an opportunity to offers suits with alternative bonuses, better fitting modules, and larger bonus equipment.
So to deal with LP farming that would devalue Aurum I offer the following solution. Items purchased with LP+isk come with Restricted Blue Print Copy (RBPC). This means it is not transferable. Now the Items purchased with Aurum come with Open Blue Print Copy (OPBC). This gives those that purchase these items with Aurum the ability to sell it on the market for isk.
Now that the LP farmers hate me let me explain why. Aurum has to have a constant value and should not be devalued by in game grinding. ItGÇÖs that simple.
4.Faction Warfare (FW)LP + isk or Aurum. This is intended to offer those that participate in faction warfare benefits similar to those that earn NPC LP. Now I would say that items should be limited to specific needs on each race. You shouldnGÇÖt see a Faction laser rifle in caldari FW LP store. Also earning LP for Amarr should raise your standing with them but also decrease your standings with Minmatar. Higher standing should reduce LP costs and open up more items to you. Now these items donGÇÖt necessarily have to be better that the NPC LP items. They can be alternatives or maybe offer prefit suits (like militia) that are really good but canGÇÖt be changed. The RBPC for LP+isk items will be in effect here also while OBPC for Aurum.
I admit this isnGÇÖt a perfect solution but it doesnGÇÖt create a pay to win situation. It gives you useful Aurum items regardless of your skill point level. It gives you more to grind for then just skill points. It gives us mercs the ability to have more options when creating fits for the battlefield.
As an eve guy I donGÇÖt like the idea of restricting bpcs that were paid for with isk+LP. I acknowledge though that Aurum is the means to support dust and therefore must have a constant value. If someone has better solution to handle LP farming and Aurum devaluation please speak up.
So I open up the floor for discussion. Agree or Disagree isnGÇÖt what I am looking for. I want you to punch holes in the idea or make it better this way trolls can participate too.
Sincerely yours,
Free Beers esq.
I would also like to mention that this isn't soley my idea. There have been discussions in the dustbeta IRC channel as well at the dustbeta C3 channel. This post wouldn't have been if it wasn't for those that participlated in the discussions.
UPDATES:
-You would earn LP along side SP in every match you play in hisec/FW.
-LP should not be earned same as SP on individual level. So winning would give a bonus to indivual. I would suggest pooling all LP earning in match and the equally dividing it. 2 reasons for this. High SP earners aren't also the high LP earners. Second is that LP is based on winning the match therefore teamwork for victory is most important thing. Last if you are losing and people leave early gives the losing team bigger splits to stay and fight on. |
JAG ONE
97
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 beers.
Current AUR suits suck ass compared to ISK variant. Seriously CCP, you are not going make much bank with current model. |
Captain-Awesome
38
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
I can't see a problem with it and it will help those new to the game with NPC warfare.
on the flip side it may mean that dust players will only stick to npc corp action unless something makes not doing games that give better gear, more rewarding - more so while levelling skills |
OwnD07
BetaMax.
6
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
If I understand this correctly, you're saying that LP would be earned as a reward for NPC contracts, correct?
I do like this idea, that Aurum can be replaced by an ISK+LP combination. Personally, I would probably spend the time to gain LP in order to avoid using AUR, but that's because I'm the kind of guy who hates to spend money when I could obtain what I want after a little bit of time. That said, the amount of time it takes to get a sufficient amount of LP should definitely be long enough that spending Aurum would save significant amounts of time.
As for having ISK+LP combo only items, I like this idea as well. I imagine that these would either be significantly more rare, requiring more LP than an Aurum item alone, or common, as an intermediate level between ISK and AUR items. Or both. I feel like having a third "currency" (I assume this is how it works from the explanation, since I don't play Eve) would open more options for equipment. |
Pavel Monfreid
29
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
I know suits are not this way, but there are numerous weapons that can be used a level lower than their ISK equivalents. Their are also other benefits such as lower CPU/PG requirements if they are higher level. It looks like a lot of number crunching to see if the Aurum or ISK version is better. I don't have my char in front of me right now, but I had a problem with CPU with the weapon mods and a shield on a suit and I couldn't fit the proto isk version. If I bought the Aurum version I could fit the proto version and still have CPU/PG available.
It appears that we are going to have more spreadsheets than combat when upgrading skills. |
Gelan Corbaine
BetaMax.
103
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pavel Monfreid wrote:
It appears that we are going to have more spreadsheets than combat when upgrading skills.
Welcome to New Eden ..... |
OwnD07
BetaMax.
6
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pavel Monfreid wrote:It appears that we are going to have more spreadsheets than combat when upgrading skills.
A friend of mine already does.
I don't have a problem with this though, even though I come from an FPS background. I really enjoy the amount of customization in Dust, and anything to increase that amount will probably be okay by me.
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Skytt Syysch
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
235
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
I liked how, during the discussion last night, you mentioned it opened up an opportunity for more AUR purchases if you had a positive standing with one faction to purchase their LP+ISK suit, but at the same time you wanted the SMG from a different faction whose standing was made negative by you unlocking the suit. |
Captain-Awesome
38
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Skytt Syysch wrote:I liked how, during the discussion last night, you mentioned it opened up an opportunity for more AUR purchases if you had a positive standing with one faction to purchase their LP+ISK suit, but at the same time you wanted the SMG from a different faction whose standing was made negative by you unlocking the suit.
it does work quite well but what then? bulk purchases so you can change faction to get the other item? you switch factions by playing games = dying = losing the items you just bought - you'd be buying in the 1000s just to try and get a set that lasted a brief period of time. |
Skytt Syysch
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
235
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:Skytt Syysch wrote:I liked how, during the discussion last night, you mentioned it opened up an opportunity for more AUR purchases if you had a positive standing with one faction to purchase their LP+ISK suit, but at the same time you wanted the SMG from a different faction whose standing was made negative by you unlocking the suit. it does work quite well but what then? bulk purchases so you can change faction to get the other item? you switch factions by playing games = dying = losing the items you just bought - you'd be buying in the 1000s just to try and get a set that lasted a brief period of time.
You probably wouldn't use em every game. If they're the top of the line, you could save them just for corp battles, and play in lower suits to earn more between corp battles. |
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Justin Gotchall
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
4
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
OwnD07 wrote:Pavel Monfreid wrote:It appears that we are going to have more spreadsheets than combat when upgrading skills. A friend of mine already does. I don't have a problem with this though, even though I come from an FPS background. I really enjoy the amount of customization in Dust, and anything to increase that amount will probably be okay by me.
I'm really hoping that they do allow some customization of the weapons itself, because currently it's a bit too restricted. I have only a few choices as to what I get in terms of an assault rifle, and if I don't happen to enjoy those, well then that sucks. We don't need to be able to build our own from scratch, though that might be nice, but some attachments would be nice. Here's hoping it comes soon. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1170
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Posted - 2012.08.06 21:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
I support this as simply another way to monetize time in game vs real money. My only concern is that it may limit the potential buyers of AUR gear, which could hurt CCPs bottom line. The restricted BPC is a good idea, I'm just having a nag about it that I can't quite figure out.
Potential solution - what if you bought a RBPC (100 run or higher) with LP, but every production checks for the required standing and forces a choice between ISK+LP and AUR? Then AUR versions could be OBPC with 20% higher runs and the same choice. The trick would to not allow small run BPCs to exist, to allow a healthy aftermarket for those who buy with AUR, and even if you buy the OBPC with ISK, you still might decide to pay for runs with AUR because you don't have the standing.
Reflecting, my biggest nag is no one will want to buy 1 run BPCs for use AND resale. They'll just buy them one at a time OR look on the market for a nearly depleted OBPC if they are undecided. Without many being on the market, they will be priced out of real demand. CCP needs volume of sales more than the player needs lots of ISK for their small purchase. |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
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Posted - 2012.08.06 21:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
I personally suggest that you could maybe have RBPO as well which cost a horrendous amount, but on the flipside no longer means you worry with getting more. These of course would have same stats, if not slightly lower top level gear. |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
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Posted - 2012.08.06 21:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'd rather go with having to buy my stuff over and over. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1170
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Posted - 2012.08.06 21:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Finn Kempers wrote:I personally suggest that you could maybe have RBPO as well which cost a horrendous amount, but on the flipside no longer means you worry with getting more. These of course would have same stats, if not slightly lower top level gear.
Enough to not micromanage after every match, sure. Infinite? Absolutely not. It would be bad for business and the player market. |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
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Posted - 2012.08.06 21:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Finn Kempers wrote:I personally suggest that you could maybe have RBPO as well which cost a horrendous amount, but on the flipside no longer means you worry with getting more. These of course would have same stats, if not slightly lower top level gear. Enough to not micromanage after every match, sure. Infinite? Absolutely not. It would be bad for business and the player market.
I believe they're adding a automatic stocking feature sometime. |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
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Posted - 2012.08.06 22:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Finn Kempers wrote:I personally suggest that you could maybe have RBPO as well which cost a horrendous amount, but on the flipside no longer means you worry with getting more. These of course would have same stats, if not slightly lower top level gear. Enough to not micromanage after every match, sure. Infinite? Absolutely not. It would be bad for business and the player market.
This is why I say it is horrendously expensive. |
First Prophet
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Zombie Ninja Space Bears
35
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Posted - 2012.08.06 23:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Damn the title. There are no free beers.
I'm sad now... |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1170
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Posted - 2012.08.07 00:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Finn Kempers wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Finn Kempers wrote:I personally suggest that you could maybe have RBPO as well which cost a horrendous amount, but on the flipside no longer means you worry with getting more. These of course would have same stats, if not slightly lower top level gear. Enough to not micromanage after every match, sure. Infinite? Absolutely not. It would be bad for business and the player market. This is why I say it is horrendously expensive.
Simply no. DUST should be focused on a long term strategy. Even if it is the cost of 10,000 suits, eventually the market will be saturated and the item no longer has value. |
counter logic
BetaMax.
42
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Posted - 2012.08.07 02:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pretty much sums up what we had talked about on C3, I like this way of doing it rather than how it is set up now. AUR suits are just dif paint jobs basically...
I think CCP should really think about adopting this model or at least a modified version of it. |
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PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
781
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Posted - 2012.08.07 02:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
needs more e's
come at me beers |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
906
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Posted - 2012.08.07 04:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Second is that LP is based on winning the match therefore teamwork for victory is most important thing. Last if you are losing and people leave early gives the losing team bigger splits to stay and fight on.
I really like the idea of creating an incentive to stick in out in a match. I'm still mulling over the whole LP thing. It seems like a good idea though. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
328
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Posted - 2012.08.14 20:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Free Beers wrote:Second is that LP is based on winning the match therefore teamwork for victory is most important thing. Last if you are losing and people leave early gives the losing team bigger splits to stay and fight on. I really like the idea of creating an incentive to stick in out in a match. I'm still mulling over the whole LP thing. It seems like a good idea though.
LP based rewards seem inevitable. |
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