DUST Search - Please DEV's fix the scout suit

William HBonney wrote:

Terrarim wrote:

William HBonney wrote:

Terrarim wrote:

I am not immune and I find proto assault and proto breach rifle very difficult to kill. To get any type of advantage over this variant I have to do the following.

Make sure that I am in optimum CQC reach (I have to plan tactically where I engage.

I have to make sure that the ground will not impede me in any way if I strafe into a wall im dead.

I must be aware of any walls when I can retreat to if I need to regain shields.

Due to me carrying teleports etc. i am usually carrying proto smg due to low levels of cpu and pg compared to assault. This means I have to hit my target first and try to keep my fire on the target than the opposition.

Despite all this against proto gear if the guy anticipates my strafe or due to clever dodging on the opponents behalf going against a proto suit and proto rifle is tough.

If you see me before I close distance im probably dead or will have to disengage.

If my get stuck or another person joins the fight I'm dead.

If you use any type of explosive im probably dead.

Being a scout is not an I win button for CQC even in its present state. You have to think and react tactically to get in optimum range especially if you run with an SMG due to using teleporters etc.

The reason often that the scout has the drop on you is he's

1) seen you on the radar due to being spotted or your firing etc

2) they then close on you from a distance trying to use cover to get in close

3) they then attack at an opportune moment when your on your own

I don't see it far then after all that information and planning that the assault has equal chance at CQC as this will make the assault suit overpowered,

As for being better at distance with a sniper rifle I don't see an advantage in being a scout with a rifle over assault to be honest one can argue that the extra shields and armour and pg and cpu would make a superior sniper.

This is a game which is supposed to be tactical. The scouts (with exception of any hit detection bugs) are well balanced and very squishy,

At the end of the day the scout is supposed to be a lone wolf they should have the advantage in one on one situations by their very nature. Good tactics (spacing using shotguns/mass drivers etc) or staying with a buddy etc are a counter to scouts or other suggestions that I gave before in my other long post.

Okay, so lets talk about some of your logic...you can only carry an SMG, designed for CQC, and happens to have higher DPS then its AR brothers, and somehow you see a problem? Scouts should NOT be 1v1 kings....I am not talking about getting snuck up on by a scout I am saying full bore 1v1 sometimes when I start it by shooting at them, then they turn and strafe into god mode...not all scouts know how to twitch strafe.

The idea that I need to have another assault friend with me to cover my butt doesn't work either...the scout is faster then us so he decides the angle of the fight and as long as we don't get perpendicular to him we are unlikely to hit him.

If somone sees me first and is shooting me as you said im usually dead the scout must have very high shield extenders to stay alive as the assault rifles especally proto cuts me to shreds. Even small sustained fire from assault rifles diminishes the shields rapidly. I have tried doing what you said that scout done and even trying to turn and jump in the air im usually dead before i hit the ground.

As for your two vs one well its just not that easy to kill one person with an smg never mind two even if your right beside behind each other.

Your not sitting still, im not sitting sitting still and your pal is not sitting still. The smg really is meant for 1 on 1 due to the fact its so dam hard keeping your gun on someone during all that movement and the shots are not hitting nearly as hard. It's almost impossible to use that dps because the of target acquisition. I have faced two guys with protos and proto breaches and I had next to no chance as im getting hit by two lanes of fire.

The only time I can fight more than one on one is if they other guys are new people and not aggressive allowing me to recharge and reload.

Remember also that my spec is CQC for the most part by design yet with an assault rife your wanting equal ground in cqc superior mid range and superior long range how is that fair?

If your one due has an smg or shotgun or massdriver and the other guy has an assault rifle then this will make it very difficult for the scout to kill you as you have speced to cover short range and medium and long range.

People seem to want the assault to be able to chose proto suit proto breach assault and dominate at all ranges?

Nothing stops you from using Proto ARs, all i am saying is that SMGs are better than ARs, I only do sidearms, that is it, I have a loadout with just pistols and I do just fine, the only time there is an issue is with scout suits dancing about. Scouts are not meant to be Directs combat, but this "glitch" allows them to do so.
Oh and for your info jumping is bad for scouts...you can't twitch strafe in the air...you have one trajectory and it becomes possible to lead you, which means you die. I will repeat my first statement...SMGs are better than ARs


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Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 13:35:00 - [1] - Quote In my opinion one on one in the open (infantry) the scouts should be very dangerous as scouts are by their very definition special ops, solo and even the devs are called them assassins. Assaults are the great utility they have large amounts of slots and pg cpu to carry things. Can work as support for tanks or work in teams to hold places down. I use a scout (not proto atm) and consider myself a good player against proto assaults with breach out in the open I find it extremely difficult to kill them due to the amount of damage their putting out and have about a 60/40 success rate. If your in narrow quarters then the same assault will cut you to ribbons. Due to carrying teleporters, remote explosives I usually can't use anything but my proto breach SMG, I think a scout should always be feared one on one if hes got around the back of you. That's his job and like in other tactical FPS's the scout needs the speed and the quick strike and out to get into the back to be effective. Its the assault / dropship snipers job to make sure that scouts find it hard to get around the back in the first place. Tactically one on one scouts should shine and unless assaults specifically put points into being a scout hunter (a la speed mods etc) then in open space or unsuspecting then scouts should be hard to take out. It's the job of the scout to pick out people who wander away from their teams etc IMO. However soon as the battle shifts to limited quarters or corridors then with the firepower and armor/shield assaults tanks will win in that scenario. If proto assaults with proto rifles can kill everything with ease where are the tactical disadvantages for that class? As it is a scout will try to use his speed to either get the first shot in and ambush a person or try to get the assault in the open or have plenty of places to fall back to be able to recharge shields fast. I have to think tactically to kill proto assaults to give myself the advantage. So to combat scouts you should either a) teamwork to stop scouts being effective a la cutting of ways of getting around your defenses. teamwork to take down scouts (i.e. more than 1 guy) build your own scout killer by equipment mods skilling that way for assault (speed mods, high damage in short bursts or explosives). Scouts are extremely vulnerable to explosives of most kinds and are extremely vulnerable if stationary or in narrow quarters. Scouts are also vulnerable at range from assault rifles, and in particular forge guns and sniper rifles usually resulting in one shot kills against them. If you think of it in real life terms only the elite guys are scouts in the real world. We are talking delta force, SAS, Commandos etc. these are the guys that scout, go behind enemy lines etc. One on one these guys are the best at what they do as thats what they do. They can't hold a place forever. Are vulnerable against any type of armour, and explosives. Are vulnerable to teamwork. Scouts are best when there is confusion, ill discipline people trying to go after them one by one this is exactly what they want. To try to split up people from their teams so the other guys in their teams can bring their teamwork to bare. In MAG it was well known how deadly these guys were as they were light fast and had good equipment. The way to stop them was to make sure you had good teamwork and covered your vulnerabilities. If you didn't you risked these guys getting behind your lines causing mayhem with demo's and if you went after them you were taking people off the front line and were highly vulnerable to ambushes or the skill of these people. That is my opinion. Assaults should be good at everything and master at none and therefore should be vulnerable to specialists and by their very definition scouts are specialists. Do you really think it would be fair if assault were equally as good as scouts CQC when they hold the advantage at range due to their armour, shields and ability to hold equipment?
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 13:56:00 - [2] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: The speed of the scout suit is fine, but the character model and hit box on the scout is too small. Damage doesn't always register against them. Anybody that denies this is clearly abusing the class. I started a fight put my smg on him with his back to me only for him to whirl around and almost insta kill me to. It's not a perfect game. If you think hit detection vs scouts is unfair try playing from asia on us or europe servers where your gun shots dont register at all even though the shield is flashing and your cursor is red. As for the character model well they should be small that's the whole point and they haven't got the cpu or pg to back it up either. If the assault class can do everything the scout can whats the point of having a scout class?
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 14:16:00 - [3] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Terrarim wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: The speed of the scout suit is fine, but the character model and hit box on the scout is too small. Damage doesn't always register against them. Anybody that denies this is clearly abusing the class. I started a fight put my smg on him with his back to me only for him to whirl around and almost insta kill me to. It's not a perfect game. If you think hit detection vs scouts is unfair try playing from asia on us or europe servers where your gun shots dont register at all even though the shield is flashing and your cursor is red. As for the character model well they should be small that's the whole point and they haven't got the cpu or pg to back it up either. If the assault class can do everything the scout can whats the point of having a scout class? Did I ever say hit detection vs scouts was unfair? Why would I play on the EU or Asia server when I can play on the US server? The scout has been broken since december. The character model and hit-box are too small. Some people win their gunfights using the scout not because they can outmaneuver their opponent, but because damage doesn't register because the hit-box is too small. The only advantage a scout should have against another class is speed not a smaller hit-box. You agree though that a scout should be smaller than assault and heavy and together with their speed they should be hard to hit / detect (the very definition of a scout after all).
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 15:45:00 - [4] - Quote I am still genuinely interested however do people think that the assault should be as good as scouts in the open in cqc, despite having a significant ranged advantage?
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:31:00 - [5] - Quote I am not immune and I find proto assault and proto breach rifle very difficult to kill. To get any type of advantage over this variant I have to do the following. Make sure that I am in optimum CQC reach (I have to plan tactically where I engage. I have to make sure that the ground will not impede me in any way if I strafe into a wall im dead. I must be aware of any walls when I can retreat to if I need to regain shields. Due to me carrying teleports etc. i am usually carrying proto smg due to low levels of cpu and pg compared to assault. This means I have to hit my target first and try to keep my fire on the target than the opposition. Despite all this against proto gear if the guy anticipates my strafe or due to clever dodging on the opponents behalf going against a proto suit and proto rifle is tough. If you see me before I close distance im probably dead or will have to disengage. If my get stuck or another person joins the fight I'm dead. If you use any type of explosive im probably dead. Being a scout is not an I win button for CQC even in its present state. You have to think and react tactically to get in optimum range especially if you run with an SMG due to using teleporters etc. The reason often that the scout has the drop on you is he's 1) seen you on the radar due to being spotted or your firing etc 2) they then close on you from a distance trying to use cover to get in close 3) they then attack at an opportune moment when your on your own I don't see it far then after all that information and planning that the assault has equal chance at CQC as this will make the assault suit overpowered, As for being better at distance with a sniper rifle I don't see an advantage in being a scout with a rifle over assault to be honest one can argue that the extra shields and armour and pg and cpu would make a superior sniper. This is a game which is supposed to be tactical. The scouts (with exception of any hit detection bugs) are well balanced and very squishy, At the end of the day the scout is supposed to be a lone wolf they should have the advantage in one on one situations by their very nature. Good tactics (spacing using shotguns/mass drivers etc) or staying with a buddy etc are a counter to scouts or other suggestions that I gave before in my other long post.
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:37:00 - [6] - Quote I would also like to add you wont believe the amount of times my armour has been close to zero in situations where I had a drop on a proto assault guy with me with an SMG. The only thing that saves me is speed in trying to keep the gun on the guy and then speed out to cover to take advantage of high shield refresh. My point is that I am not aware of an invincible zone. I consider it lucky to get away from a proto breach unscathed (very lucky).
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 19:01:00 - [7] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Terrarim wrote: I am not immune and I find proto assault and proto breach rifle very difficult to kill. To get any type of advantage over this variant I have to do the following. Make sure that I am in optimum CQC reach (I have to plan tactically where I engage. I have to make sure that the ground will not impede me in any way if I strafe into a wall im dead. I must be aware of any walls when I can retreat to if I need to regain shields. Due to me carrying teleports etc. i am usually carrying proto smg due to low levels of cpu and pg compared to assault. This means I have to hit my target first and try to keep my fire on the target than the opposition. Despite all this against proto gear if the guy anticipates my strafe or due to clever dodging on the opponents behalf going against a proto suit and proto rifle is tough. If you see me before I close distance im probably dead or will have to disengage. If my get stuck or another person joins the fight I'm dead. If you use any type of explosive im probably dead. Being a scout is not an I win button for CQC even in its present state. You have to think and react tactically to get in optimum range especially if you run with an SMG due to using teleporters etc. The reason often that the scout has the drop on you is he's 1) seen you on the radar due to being spotted or your firing etc 2) they then close on you from a distance trying to use cover to get in close 3) they then attack at an opportune moment when your on your own I don't see it far then after all that information and planning that the assault has equal chance at CQC as this will make the assault suit overpowered, As for being better at distance with a sniper rifle I don't see an advantage in being a scout with a rifle over assault to be honest one can argue that the extra shields and armour and pg and cpu would make a superior sniper. This is a game which is supposed to be tactical. The scouts (with exception of any hit detection bugs) are well balanced and very squishy, At the end of the day the scout is supposed to be a lone wolf they should have the advantage in one on one situations by their very nature. Good tactics (spacing using shotguns/mass drivers etc) or staying with a buddy etc are a counter to scouts or other suggestions that I gave before in my other long post. Okay, so lets talk about some of your logic...you can only carry an SMG, designed for CQC, and happens to have higher DPS then its AR brothers, and somehow you see a problem? Scouts should NOT be 1v1 kings....I am not talking about getting snuck up on by a scout I am saying full bore 1v1 sometimes when I start it by shooting at them, then they turn and strafe into god mode...not all scouts know how to twitch strafe. The idea that I need to have another assault friend with me to cover my butt doesn't work either...the scout is faster then us so he decides the angle of the fight and as long as we don't get perpendicular to him we are unlikely to hit him. If somone sees me first and is shooting me as you said im usually dead the scout must have very high shield extenders to stay alive as the assault rifles especally proto cuts me to shreds. Even small sustained fire from assault rifles diminishes the shields rapidly. I have tried doing what you said that scout done and even trying to turn and jump in the air im usually dead before i hit the ground. As for your two vs one well its just not that easy to kill one person with an smg never mind two even if your right beside behind each other. Your not sitting still, im not sitting sitting still and your pal is not sitting still. The smg really is meant for 1 on 1 due to the fact its so dam hard keeping your gun on someone during all that movement and the shots are not hitting nearly as hard. It's almost impossible to use that dps because the of target acquisition. I have faced two guys with protos and proto breaches and I had next to no chance as im getting hit by two lanes of fire. The only time I can fight more than one on one is if they other guys are new people and not aggressive allowing me to recharge and reload. Remember also that my spec is CQC for the most part by design yet with an assault rife your wanting equal ground in cqc superior mid range and superior long range how is that fair? If your one due has an smg or shotgun or massdriver and the other guy has an assault rifle then this will make it very difficult for the scout to kill you as you have speced to cover short range and medium and long range. People seem to want the assault to be able to chose proto suit proto breach assault and dominate at all ranges?
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 19:11:00 - [8] - Quote Well I believe that I read when choosing your starting character class that they are snipers, spotters and assasins. You cant very well be assasins if you can kill anyone. If there is a dead zone then it should be fixed I am not saying otherwise. However scouts are usually spec ops as well hence the small radar signatures this makes sense with CCP's assassin classification. Again if somone has a scout and spends all his skills in CQC and assaults skill in rifles which are generally long to short range why should they be better than the scout in CQC? Has anyone actually tried specing as a scout killer i.e. massdriver, shotgun, or smg spec with speed boosters in assault? Or is everyone saying that na I can spec generally and should still have the same chance (human talents not withstanding) as someone who has specialized in something?
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.06 19:13:00 - [9] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Terrarim wrote: William HBonney wrote: Terrarim wrote: I am not immune and I find proto assault and proto breach rifle very difficult to kill. To get any type of advantage over this variant I have to do the following. Make sure that I am in optimum CQC reach (I have to plan tactically where I engage. I have to make sure that the ground will not impede me in any way if I strafe into a wall im dead. I must be aware of any walls when I can retreat to if I need to regain shields. Due to me carrying teleports etc. i am usually carrying proto smg due to low levels of cpu and pg compared to assault. This means I have to hit my target first and try to keep my fire on the target than the opposition. Despite all this against proto gear if the guy anticipates my strafe or due to clever dodging on the opponents behalf going against a proto suit and proto rifle is tough. If you see me before I close distance im probably dead or will have to disengage. If my get stuck or another person joins the fight I'm dead. If you use any type of explosive im probably dead. Being a scout is not an I win button for CQC even in its present state. You have to think and react tactically to get in optimum range especially if you run with an SMG due to using teleporters etc. The reason often that the scout has the drop on you is he's 1) seen you on the radar due to being spotted or your firing etc 2) they then close on you from a distance trying to use cover to get in close 3) they then attack at an opportune moment when your on your own I don't see it far then after all that information and planning that the assault has equal chance at CQC as this will make the assault suit overpowered, As for being better at distance with a sniper rifle I don't see an advantage in being a scout with a rifle over assault to be honest one can argue that the extra shields and armour and pg and cpu would make a superior sniper. This is a game which is supposed to be tactical. The scouts (with exception of any hit detection bugs) are well balanced and very squishy, At the end of the day the scout is supposed to be a lone wolf they should have the advantage in one on one situations by their very nature. Good tactics (spacing using shotguns/mass drivers etc) or staying with a buddy etc are a counter to scouts or other suggestions that I gave before in my other long post. Okay, so lets talk about some of your logic...you can only carry an SMG, designed for CQC, and happens to have higher DPS then its AR brothers, and somehow you see a problem? Scouts should NOT be 1v1 kings....I am not talking about getting snuck up on by a scout I am saying full bore 1v1 sometimes when I start it by shooting at them, then they turn and strafe into god mode...not all scouts know how to twitch strafe. The idea that I need to have another assault friend with me to cover my butt doesn't work either...the scout is faster then us so he decides the angle of the fight and as long as we don't get perpendicular to him we are unlikely to hit him. If somone sees me first and is shooting me as you said im usually dead the scout must have very high shield extenders to stay alive as the assault rifles especally proto cuts me to shreds. Even small sustained fire from assault rifles diminishes the shields rapidly. I have tried doing what you said that scout done and even trying to turn and jump in the air im usually dead before i hit the ground. As for your two vs one well its just not that easy to kill one person with an smg never mind two even if your right beside behind each other. Your not sitting still, im not sitting sitting still and your pal is not sitting still. The smg really is meant for 1 on 1 due to the fact its so dam hard keeping your gun on someone during all that movement and the shots are not hitting nearly as hard. It's almost impossible to use that dps because the of target acquisition. I have faced two guys with protos and proto breaches and I had next to no chance as im getting hit by two lanes of fire. The only time I can fight more than one on one is if they other guys are new people and not aggressive allowing me to recharge and reload. Remember also that my spec is CQC for the most part by design yet with an assault rife your wanting equal ground in cqc superior mid range and superior long range how is that fair? If your one due has an smg or shotgun or massdriver and the other guy has an assault rifle then this will make it very difficult for the scout to kill you as you have speced to cover short range and medium and long range. People seem to want the assault to be able to chose proto suit proto breach assault and dominate at all ranges? Nothing stops you from using Proto ARs, all i am saying is that SMGs are better than ARs, I only do sidearms, that is it, I have a loadout with just pistols and I do just fine, the only time there is an issue is with scout suits dancing about. Scouts are not meant to be Directs combat, but this "glitch" allows them to do so. Oh and for your info jumping is bad for scouts...you can't twitch strafe in the air...you have one trajectory and it becomes possible to lead you, which means you die. I will repeat my first statement...SMGs are better than ARs Where does it say that scouts can't do direct combat?
Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.08 19:16:00 - [10] - Quote If scouts were an eve ship I guess they would be : Short range spec + speed = Interceptors Demo+AV gren spec = stealth bombers

Terrarim 12	Posted - 2012.08.10 17:47:00 - [11] - Quote As per release notes excessive aim assist has been improved and should solve the problem.