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HowDidThatTaste
461
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Posted - 2012.08.05 16:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Not sure how to fix this but seems like a game breaker.
Two teams find a server with not many people on it call in there tanks with shield reppers form a circle and no one dies game clock says 0.00 and still 60 to 60 in ambush now they get 100,000's of thousands of SP for this each.
Also along the same lines what's to stop a corp from hiring another corp to let them get farmed. Or a corp has a farm corp that all recruits go into and there instructed to die in militia gear crap load outs set up by the corp.
Yes it sounds like anything goes, and anyone could do it, but all that really means is that everyone will be maxed out at top level skills and isk for no real work.
Seems like a game breaker to me. Because if you don't do you won't be able to compete. And if you have to do it it feels cheap, and takes the whole reason to have a skill tree useless.
I'm perplexed at how to stop this though. Any suggestions |
Darkz azurr
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 16:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
if they really wanna find bugs and exploits they need an open beta with all the cod players, they manage to find so many exploits . glitches XD
i did wonder about friendly corps farming sp , it happens in cod and battlefield. |
Eskel Bondfree
27
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Posted - 2012.08.05 17:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well, the amount of SP you earn from a match gets lower the more matches you play per day. This reduces the viabillity of SP farming some what. Maybe diminishing returns for SP should not only depend on the number of matches played, but also on the total amount of SP earned a day. This way you can't really get ahead of other successful players by farming SP. |
Darkz azurr
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
105
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Posted - 2012.08.05 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
are the diminishing returns for an account or for a player ?, whats stopping me from having 3 or more dust accounts and when i cant earm much sp on one of my accounts i just switch to one of my other account and continue farmig sp |
HowDidThatTaste
461
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Posted - 2012.08.05 17:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Darkz azurr wrote:are the diminishing returns for an account or for a player ?, whats stopping me from having 3 or more dust accounts and when i cant earm much sp on one of my accounts i just switch to one of my other account and continue farmig sp
And then just give the isk back to yourself.
I imagine corporations requiring you to have several accounts set up just for this. |
Eskel Bondfree
27
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Posted - 2012.08.05 18:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Darkz azurr wrote:are the diminishing returns for an account or for a player ?, whats stopping me from having 3 or more dust accounts and when i cant earm much sp on one of my accounts i just switch to one of my other account and continue farmig sp But this won't help you to reach a certain goal on your main character faster, like getting into a marauder or a proto suit, which would probably be the reason for farming SP in the first place.
Quote: And then just give the isk back to yourself. I imagine corporations requiring you to have several accounts set up just for this.
As far as I can tell, you always earn a fixed amount of isk for completing a match (i.e. your contract payout), independent on the amount of SP you gained. You will get more isk if you destroy enemy gear on the battlefield, like drop suits and vehicles (blowing up HAVs generates huge amounts of isk). So in order to farm isk, you would need to destroy high value gear of the enemy team. Someone will have to pay for that gear, which renders the whole isk farming a bit pointless I think. |
The Robot Devil
45
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Posted - 2012.08.05 18:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:Not sure how to fix this but seems like a game breaker.
Two teams find a server with not many people on it call in there tanks with shield reppers form a circle and no one dies game clock says 0.00 and still 60 to 60 in ambush now they get 100,000's of thousands of SP for this each.
Also along the same lines what's to stop a corp from hiring another corp to let them get farmed. Or a corp has a farm corp that all recruits go into and there instructed to die in militia gear crap load outs set up by the corp.
Yes it sounds like anything goes, and anyone could do it, but all that really means is that everyone will be maxed out at top level skills and isk for no real work.
Seems like a game breaker to me. Because if you don't do you won't be able to compete. And if you have to do it it feels cheap, and takes the whole reason to have a skill tree useless.
I'm perplexed at how to stop this though. Any suggestions
You will get all of that and that's the name of the game. It will take months of that to get anywhere. |
ELDER7
11
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Posted - 2012.08.05 18:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:HowDidThatTaste wrote:Not sure how to fix this but seems like a game breaker.
Two teams find a server with not many people on it call in there tanks with shield reppers form a circle and no one dies game clock says 0.00 and still 60 to 60 in ambush now they get 100,000's of thousands of SP for this each.
Also along the same lines what's to stop a corp from hiring another corp to let them get farmed. Or a corp has a farm corp that all recruits go into and there instructed to die in militia gear crap load outs set up by the corp.
Yes it sounds like anything goes, and anyone could do it, but all that really means is that everyone will be maxed out at top level skills and isk for no real work.
Seems like a game breaker to me. Because if you don't do you won't be able to compete. And if you have to do it it feels cheap, and takes the whole reason to have a skill tree useless.
I'm perplexed at how to stop this though. Any suggestions You will get all of that and that's the name of the game. It will take months of that to get anywhere. Well that's months not years right now people can make up to around 2,mil SP per day doing this while an average guy duking it out can only make about 1/3 of that . |
Terrarim
12
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Posted - 2012.08.05 21:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thats one thing I don't get about eve why don't they allow just one character make it harder to do this work both sides then. To be a spy would be more fun and harder if you had to do it with your main. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 22:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
If CCP wanted to stop abuse of their game mechanics in this way:
- Flag matches that show signs of abuse based on set criteria (we would never be allowed to know what those criteria are or people would work around that to exploit).
- Manual review in real time.
- Disconnect both teams in the event that abuse was found, invalidating the match & forcing a reconnect.
- Log the incident including the involved parties.
Alternatively they could add in new SP bottlenecks for diminishing returns on a match level:
- after 10 kills per match.
- after 10 vehicle or structure damages per match.
- after 5 structure destruction per match.
- after 5 vehicle kills per match.
- after 10 hacks.
- after 10 vehicle kill assists.
- after 15 resupplies.
- after 15 team spawns.
- after 15 repairs.
- unlimited kill/hack assists.
Cut the value of the actions in half after hitting the match limit, then half again after doubling the limit.
Additional automatic adjusted returns:
- Killed within 5 seconds of spawn. 1/2 current value.
- Kill assist for enemy killed within 5 seconds of spawn. 1/5th normal value.
If someone was sniping it'd cut their participation base score on a 30/0 game from 1500 to 875. While another player who received 15 kills w/ 2 vehicle kills would get closer to 925 (instead of around 1050). This kind of change should make it more difficult to farm on a more extreme scale as it would require more diversification. Additionally it provides better incentives for providing support.
Oh, and that same sniper, if they went 47/0 instead on a match where they had 5 kills before spawn camping the enemy for the remaining 42 kills he'd only receive ~800 points depending on if he had to chase after anyone for more than 5 seconds before killing them. |
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jenza aranda
BetaMax.
1005
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Posted - 2012.08.05 22:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
sweetie, we where testing it and we emailed a report to CCP, we didnt want to post it on the forums because then everyone would do it. |
Jonquill Caronite
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 22:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't like arbitrary caps... It will prevent farming but it will also handicap skilled players who are actually doing it the right way, and that's bothers me...
ISK is already handled even if you farm you don't get extra ISK for hacking repairing or blowing up militia tanks and infantry all day, you only get extra ISK if your busy blowing **** up that costs actual ISK, so this has no exploit except as a very inefficient way to transfer wealth at a huge loss, which would be remarkably stupid since once its implemented you can just send the ISK to whoever you want for a very small and reasonable tax...
As for SP... Frankly I think the game needs to move away from large ACTIVE SP and towards far more Passive SP, with Active only being a boosting agent, and being highly based of mission successes... Where continually winning missions increases a modifier or something dependent on the number of players on your team compared to the number of players on the opposing team, and the asset exchanging hands... Key however to this is that destruction of something valuable on the map must occur every time that takes time to be rebuilt, thus preventing two allied teams from simply farming maps by giving them back and forth to each other, and also the MCC setting a time cap and thus discouraging using it as the winning mechanism since it ALWAYS takes longer for it to reach destination then it does to destroy it, which is a huge asset loss, is essential.
Further... Specialized skillpoints is another option. AKA, your passive SP can be used wherever you like, but your Active SP apply only to the skills being used... This would operate like an extremely watered down version of The Elder Scrolls leveling system... Its just an idea, it wouldn't prevent exploiting, but it would cap it to the skills being discussed, and if you force the acquisition of such skills to only level faster on more expensive gear being effected or used, it will increase the risk factor of cooperating to power level such skills.
I don't think any of my answers are fool-proof, but I just don't want to see arbitrary caps put in place, that would be very depressing. |
Travis C'lahann
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.08.05 22:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Longshot Ravenwood wrote:If CCP wanted to stop abuse of their game mechanics in this way:
- Flag matches that show signs of abuse based on set criteria (we would never be allowed to know what those criteria are or people would work around that to exploit).
- Manual review in real time.
- Disconnect both teams in the event that abuse was found, invalidating the match & forcing a reconnect.
- Log the incident including the involved parties.
Alternatively they could add in new SP bottlenecks for diminishing returns on a match level:
- after 10 kills per match.
- after 10 vehicle or structure damages per match.
- after 5 structure destruction per match.
- after 5 vehicle kills per match.
- after 10 hacks.
- after 10 vehicle kill assists.
- after 15 resupplies.
- after 15 team spawns.
- after 15 repairs.
- unlimited kill/hack assists.
Cut the value of the actions in half after hitting the match limit, then half again after doubling the limit. Additional automatic adjusted returns:
- Killed within 5 seconds of spawn. 1/2 current value.
- Kill assist for enemy killed within 5 seconds of spawn. 1/5th normal value.
If someone was sniping it'd cut their participation base score on a 30/0 game from 1500 to 875. While another player who received 15 kills w/ 2 vehicle kills would get closer to 925 (instead of around 1050). This kind of change should make it more difficult to farm on a more extreme scale as it would require more diversification. Additionally it provides better incentives for providing support. Oh, and that same sniper, if they went 47/0 instead on a match where they had 5 kills before spawn camping the enemy for the remaining 42 kills he'd only receive ~800 points depending on if he had to chase after anyone for more than 5 seconds before killing them.
A more streamlined approach would probably involve writing a script that calculates the average cumulative of SP given to players in a match, as an example: 5,000,000 SP. Should a server exceed that amount by, let's say 100% or more (in this case that would be 10,000,000 SP) a warning would be issued to the players in that server that they're currently under review. CCP could then conduct their own investigation and should they find a clear evidence of farming, penalties could be administered to those players at CCP's discretion.
Of course, this is just a layman's approach. I'm sure CCP has access to plenty of metrics to determine a more accurate criteria for what would or would not warrant investigation.
As you indicated in your post, there should be a lot of red flags in cases such as this.
Another point worth mentioning is that EVE players could also play a role in being watchdogs for Dust matches and nuke us all from orbit. I don't think they would appreciate Dust players screwing with their bottom line. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 22:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Travis C'lahann wrote:Longshot Ravenwood wrote:If CCP wanted to stop abuse of their game mechanics in this way:
- Flag matches that show signs of abuse based on set criteria (we would never be allowed to know what those criteria are or people would work around that to exploit).
- Manual review in real time.
- Disconnect both teams in the event that abuse was found, invalidating the match & forcing a reconnect.
- Log the incident including the involved parties.
Alternatively they could add in new SP bottlenecks for diminishing returns on a match level:
- after 10 kills per match.
- after 10 vehicle or structure damages per match.
- after 5 structure destruction per match.
- after 5 vehicle kills per match.
- after 10 hacks.
- after 10 vehicle kill assists.
- after 15 resupplies.
- after 15 team spawns.
- after 15 repairs.
- unlimited kill/hack assists.
Cut the value of the actions in half after hitting the match limit, then half again after doubling the limit. Additional automatic adjusted returns:
- Killed within 5 seconds of spawn. 1/2 current value.
- Kill assist for enemy killed within 5 seconds of spawn. 1/5th normal value.
If someone was sniping it'd cut their participation base score on a 30/0 game from 1500 to 875. While another player who received 15 kills w/ 2 vehicle kills would get closer to 925 (instead of around 1050). This kind of change should make it more difficult to farm on a more extreme scale as it would require more diversification. Additionally it provides better incentives for providing support. Oh, and that same sniper, if they went 47/0 instead on a match where they had 5 kills before spawn camping the enemy for the remaining 42 kills he'd only receive ~800 points depending on if he had to chase after anyone for more than 5 seconds before killing them. A more streamlined approach would probably involve writing a script that calculates the average cumulative of SP given to players in a match, as an example: 5,000,000 SP. Should a server exceed that amount by, let's say 100% or more (in this case that would be 10,000,000 SP) a warning would be issued to the players in that server that they're currently under review. CCP could then conduct their own investigation and should they find a clear evidence of farming, penalties could be administered to those players at CCP's discretion. Of course, this is just a layman's approach. I'm sure CCP has access to plenty of metrics to determine a more accurate criteria for what would or would not warrant investigation. As you indicated in your post, there should be a lot of red flags in cases such as this. Another point worth mentioning is that EVE players could also play a role in being watchdogs for Dust matches and nuke us all from orbit. I don't think they would appreciate Dust players screwing with their bottom line. That assumes that some of them don't pay Dust players to screw with thebottom line...which I wouldn't put past them if they found a way to make a profit from it. Additionally, we aren't going to be able to call for planetary bombardment in highsec if I remember correctly. |
Travis C'lahann
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 22:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Good point. |
Mr Funless
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
191
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 23:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Because CCP has nothing better to do than audit every match. |
Travis C'lahann
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 23:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mr Funless wrote:Because CCP has nothing better to do than audit every match.
I wasn't suggesting that they physically "audit" every match so much as they automate the process. Developers collect metrics such as K/D ratios for certain classes, where the highest concentrations of kills are located on maps, etc. These are processes that existed in game development for years to find potential imbalances or exploits. (As an example: http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Team_Fortress_2_stats)
I don't expect someone at CCP to stare at excel spreadsheets after every match, that would be a tremendous waste of time and energy (not to mention a herculean effort) but rather develop a system that automatically flags matches that are at risk for exploiting mechanics that could effect the entire EVE universe and its economy.
And if CCP doesn't have the ability to monitor matches for exploits they could always outsource the process. |
Ender 22
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2012.08.06 06:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Darkz azurr wrote:if they really wanna find bugs and exploits they need an open beta with all the cod players, they manage to find so many exploits . glitches XD
i did wonder about friendly corps farming sp , it happens in cod and battlefield.
I would say a practice is a practice. I would expect corps to fight themselves? |
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