DUST Search - Help Stop People From Boosting!

DichromaticB3C wrote:

Uncle AWOL Protheans wrote:

DichromaticB3C wrote:

Noc Tempre wrote:

I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now.

Ya know, I can see how e-mail would be advantageous, but I felt like sharing. Now when other players see it, they know what to do to stop it.

All it takes is one person to ruin an entire groups boosting efforts.

You might want to let that british check know I'll screw it up any chance I get.

you do know this is exactly why we didnt post the problem on the forums right? Now everyone who comes on here can read this and attempt to recreate it. nice job.

We all sent in detailed bug reports on the matter. no more is needed.

also as far as the the repping goes it takes more than on person. even if that person is in a tank. can rep through all the damage while keeping it going.

Get off the high horse. What I encountered was flat out boosting. How long where you guys at it? You have some balls to try and take the high road on this one.

Spin it anyway you like. I'm busting heads and letting others know how to do the same. It's easier to stop this kind of boosting than it is to co-ordinate the boost. With other players educated on the matter, they too can be a pain in the butt for shady boosting types.

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DichromaticB3C Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.08.05 15:26:00 - [1] - Quote Hello, Last night I happened upon a game where the players were boosting. They had it set up so the vehicles would be healed as they took damage. I'm not going to say names, but the developers can easily check on those involved. Now my beef is these people are getting well over 200,000 SP per match. I know it's a beta, but what these players are doing cheapens all the hard work the other testers have put in. I'm not on here to complain though, no. I'm here to recruit others to assist in ruining their boosting attempts. Look for one of the least used rooms that contain 7-9 players. I found them on the two maps for Asia last night. There's a good chance that when you join, the match will be at 00:00 time left w/ 60 clones on both teams. Both teams will have their tanks lined up in a circle on the edge of the map. You can try to blow them up, but I found myself unable to last night. In order to break up the party, you can jump into fray or kill yourself. At that point, the match ends and the less honarable players can't farm free SP
HowDidThatTaste 461	Posted - 2012.08.05 15:50:00 - [2] - Quote DichromaticB3C wrote: Hello, Last night I happened upon a game where the players were boosting. They had it set up so the vehicles would be healed as they took damage. I'm not going to say names, but the developers can easily check on those involved. Now my beef is these people are getting well over 200,000 SP per match. I know it's a beta, but what these players are doing cheapens all the hard work the other testers have put in. I'm not on here to complain though, no. I'm here to recruit others to assist in ruining their boosting attempts. Look for one of the least used rooms that contain 7-9 players. I found them on the two maps for Asia last night. There's a good chance that when you join, the match will be at 00:00 time left w/ 60 clones on both teams. Both teams will have their tanks lined up in a circle on the edge of the map. You can try to blow them up, but I found myself unable to last night. In order to break up the party, you can jump into fray or kill yourself. At that point, the match ends and the less honarable players can't farm free SP I wonder how ccp will fix this when there are going to be 100's of planets. It will be easy to offer a friendly corp the opportunity to do this with at anytime. Seems like the first fatal game break found. Even if everyone can do it, it just makes the game seem pretty cheap if that is what it comes down too. Because every one will do it and get to the top of the skill tree so its either loose to them or join them. The realization just takes the fun out of the game. But how could you fix this?not sure you could ever keep teams from letting one side farm the other or heck new recruits for that matter. Your job is to get in militia gear and not fire at us that is your job. We will take turns until everyone is skilled up.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:25:00 - [3] - Quote way i see u need exactly the same setup and no one ventures anywhere only peoply that will gain sp are those that drop nano hives to repenish the ammo sent into space they will soon get bored if no one plays to there rules on another note it will happen when we get corps peple working together properly and both teams will struggle to get kills it works like that in eve 5/6 dps guys + 3/4 remote repping guardians (logi) 2 oppsing fleets like these of competant players rerely get any kills till a mistake is made imagine a squad working properly together (think there 8 man squads) 3 heavy suits 2xforge for 1x HMG, 3 assault suits 1x shotgun 2x assault 1x scout with shotgun or SMG and 2 logi suits RR (remote repping ) with lets say mass drivers this is just an example they would be a force to reckon with if they stick close together and move as a unit
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:30:00 - [4] - Quote I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now.
Ad ski IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:39:00 - [5] - Quote I'm not sure if there is a way to stop it. They could have a report button feature and then ban those that do it.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:42:00 - [6] - Quote at a rough guess i make about 1mill a day maybe and i dont use all the dirty underhanded tricks we all hate or love depending on ur povbut thats some serious grinding onb my part im at 18 mill sp atm so brake that down -2mill from events leaves 16mill and brake down 30 days in a month to 4 mill a week (4 days the servers are up) rough guessing here about a mill theres probly an easy way to work it out i just did it of top of my head
HowDidThatTaste 461	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:43:00 - [7] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now. This certainly explains alot. But imagine where this leads. Unlimited skill tree for everyone who partakes.
DichromaticB3C Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:46:00 - [8] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now. Ya know, I can see how e-mail would be advantageous, but I felt like sharing. Now when other players see it, they know what to do to stop it. All it takes is one person to ruin an entire groups boosting efforts. You might want to let that british check know I'll screw it up any chance I get.
Mr TamiyaCowboy Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:52:00 - [9] - Quote sounds like we need some ECM nades and sensor dampeners, 20x ecm + densor damps soon puts a stop to remote repair exploits. give us the ablility to perma jam tanks, dropships, jeeps,blaster instalations ECM could be a module like a nanohive/droplink. when placed they form a ecm barrier / blanket, a set of well placed ecm units could disrupt the whole field of play. dampeners work in much the same way, they become more weaker the more are used, a max ceiling should be allowed. 60% chance of ecm/dampener effect. Overview location readout map will become distorted as ecm takes effect ( map, HUD)
Uncle AWOL Protheans BetaMax. 38	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:56:00 - [10] - Quote DichromaticB3C wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now. Ya know, I can see how e-mail would be advantageous, but I felt like sharing. Now when other players see it, they know what to do to stop it. All it takes is one person to ruin an entire groups boosting efforts. You might want to let that british check know I'll screw it up any chance I get. you do know this is exactly why we didnt post the problem on the forums right? Now everyone who comes on here can read this and attempt to recreate it. nice job. We all sent in detailed bug reports on the matter. no more is needed. also as far as the the repping goes it takes more than on person. even if that person is in a tank. can rep through all the damage while keeping it going.

HowDidThatTaste 461	Posted - 2012.08.05 17:33:00 - [11] - Quote Uncle AWOL Protheans wrote: DichromaticB3C wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now. Ya know, I can see how e-mail would be advantageous, but I felt like sharing. Now when other players see it, they know what to do to stop it. All it takes is one person to ruin an entire groups boosting efforts. You might want to let that british check know I'll screw it up any chance I get. you do know this is exactly why we didnt post the problem on the forums right? Now everyone who comes on here can read this and attempt to recreate it. nice job. We all sent in detailed bug reports on the matter. no more is needed. also as far as the the repping goes it takes more than on person. even if that person is in a tank. can rep through all the damage while keeping it going. Well it is a beta and this is exactly what we should be doing is working together to help create a solution not hide it for a select few to abuse.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.05 17:47:00 - [12] - Quote friendly fire fixes it real quick. Then again I swore I firnedly fired a fellow swarm launcher yesterday by forge gunning him to the head...
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.05 17:52:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: friendly fire fixes it real quick. Then again I swore I firnedly fired a fellow swarm launcher yesterday by forge gunning him to the head... Exactly, you guys forget about friendly fire. Also, while it may suck, it is technically "legal".........either way, just lol at them as they lose all the sp in the wipe.
DichromaticB3C Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.08.05 17:54:00 - [14] - Quote Uncle AWOL Protheans wrote: DichromaticB3C wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now. Ya know, I can see how e-mail would be advantageous, but I felt like sharing. Now when other players see it, they know what to do to stop it. All it takes is one person to ruin an entire groups boosting efforts. You might want to let that british check know I'll screw it up any chance I get. you do know this is exactly why we didnt post the problem on the forums right? Now everyone who comes on here can read this and attempt to recreate it. nice job. We all sent in detailed bug reports on the matter. no more is needed. also as far as the the repping goes it takes more than on person. even if that person is in a tank. can rep through all the damage while keeping it going. Was you one of the ones doing it? No what I saw them doing can't be done in a normal match. People won't sit by idly and let it go down.
DichromaticB3C Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.08.05 17:57:00 - [15] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Uncle AWOL Protheans wrote: DichromaticB3C wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now. Ya know, I can see how e-mail would be advantageous, but I felt like sharing. Now when other players see it, they know what to do to stop it. All it takes is one person to ruin an entire groups boosting efforts. You might want to let that british check know I'll screw it up any chance I get. you do know this is exactly why we didnt post the problem on the forums right? Now everyone who comes on here can read this and attempt to recreate it. nice job. We all sent in detailed bug reports on the matter. no more is needed. also as far as the the repping goes it takes more than on person. even if that person is in a tank. can rep through all the damage while keeping it going. Well it is a beta and this is exactly what we should be doing is working together to help create a solution not hide it for a select few to abuse. Smell yeah! I'm not saying who, but I've already had one of the boosters post on here telling me I shouldn't have posted it. It's funny, like one death and the whole plan gets screwed. No this can't be done in a normal match, it requires co-operation between both teams.
DichromaticB3C Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.08.05 18:12:00 - [16] - Quote Uncle AWOL Protheans wrote: DichromaticB3C wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now. Ya know, I can see how e-mail would be advantageous, but I felt like sharing. Now when other players see it, they know what to do to stop it. All it takes is one person to ruin an entire groups boosting efforts. You might want to let that british check know I'll screw it up any chance I get. you do know this is exactly why we didnt post the problem on the forums right? Now everyone who comes on here can read this and attempt to recreate it. nice job. We all sent in detailed bug reports on the matter. no more is needed. also as far as the the repping goes it takes more than on person. even if that person is in a tank. can rep through all the damage while keeping it going. Get off the high horse. What I encountered was flat out boosting. How long where you guys at it? You have some balls to try and take the high road on this one. Spin it anyway you like. I'm busting heads and letting others know how to do the same. It's easier to stop this kind of boosting than it is to co-ordinate the boost. With other players educated on the matter, they too can be a pain in the butt for shady boosting types.
Arceus Evoxazon Hikahotaru 119	Posted - 2012.08.05 18:43:00 - [17] - Quote DichromaticB3C wrote: Uncle AWOL Protheans wrote: DichromaticB3C wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: I've put a lot of thought into the system and so far am stumped on how to prevent abuse or remote repair without crippling logistics playstyles. There is a pretty lively discussion on possible solutions, but as of right now CCP has made aware of this potential again (it has been tested every patch and the SP to WP formula keeps improving on how it deals with this). For these kind of things I think email is better to avoid lighting up the forums with flames and copy cats. On a related note, the SP algorithm is pretty robust and no matter what you do (play all day, be a god of war like zitro, or set up logi-trains) you can't break more than a few thousand SP away from the ceiling, which is around 2M/day right now. Ya know, I can see how e-mail would be advantageous, but I felt like sharing. Now when other players see it, they know what to do to stop it. All it takes is one person to ruin an entire groups boosting efforts. You might want to let that british check know I'll screw it up any chance I get. you do know this is exactly why we didnt post the problem on the forums right? Now everyone who comes on here can read this and attempt to recreate it. nice job. We all sent in detailed bug reports on the matter. no more is needed. also as far as the the repping goes it takes more than on person. even if that person is in a tank. can rep through all the damage while keeping it going. Get off the high horse. What I encountered was flat out boosting. How long where you guys at it? You have some balls to try and take the high road on this one. Spin it anyway you like. I'm busting heads and letting others know how to do the same. It's easier to stop this kind of boosting than it is to co-ordinate the boost. With other players educated on the matter, they too can be a pain in the butt for shady boosting types. Hey, I like boosting! It's pretty cool to help an opponent reach new heights when they explode!
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.05 18:49:00 - [18] - Quote This whole problem will not be able to happen in contracted corp battles i think.... #1 - EVE corps wont pay the big bucks to corporations who mess around. They want their will to be done for their money. #2 - If an EVE corp pays a Dust corp billions to defend a planet, then that very corp just suicides so the attacking corp takes over, its not called boosting, its called sabotage and its a whole fundamental aspect of the meta game in the EVE universe. A lot of times corporations get payed to do this very thing. Dust corporations wont even have a guarantee that their own employers are working in their favor...Those pricks in space have all kinds of dirty tricks that they pull.
Mo Gallas Gentralde Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 178	Posted - 2012.08.05 19:03:00 - [19] - Quote If the whole issue of this, is them doing this over the allotted time limit... Why not just put a "Draw Timer" into the game mode, so that if nobody is the clear winner by.. say 2 minutes after the game officially ends, both teams are proclaimed as the looser.
Laz Ulian Sol Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 187	Posted - 2012.08.05 19:12:00 - [20] - Quote EDIT: Mo Gallas Gentralde beat me to it, lol. +1 Since we're talking specifically about ambush, Why not set it so that if no kills are made once the timer hits zero it's counted as a Tie. I feel a tie should mean both teams receive a rewards similar to if they had loss. Since the mode is more heavily reliant on kills, have some form of point reduction for getting zero kills. I mean, the objective is to kill more of their team than they kill of yours, obviously not getting a single kill should have some kind of punishment. It doesn't prevent the boosting but it makes it more annoying to do. Instead of hours on end with a daisy chain of points, you'll get small chunks of points at a time. If they go ahead and get kills close to the timer limit, one team will still have a lessened reward and create tension between the participants(unless they plan it out to get one kill each, in which case still results in a tie). They'll have to work out a more complicated system of trading off who kills who on alternating games. If it's annoying to do and not easy, people will be put off of boosting. It's not changing the actual gameplay, it's just changing the rules of ambush mode when it comes to the end game and who wins. That's my first thought on it.

Skytt Syysch Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 235	Posted - 2012.08.05 19:27:00 - [21] - Quote DichromaticB3C wrote: Get off the high horse. What I encountered was flat out boosting. How long where you guys at it? You have some balls to try and take the high road on this one. Spin it anyway you like. I'm busting heads and letting others know how to do the same. It's easier to stop this kind of boosting than it is to co-ordinate the boost. With other players educated on the matter, they too can be a pain in the butt for shady boosting types. You can do whatever you want to stop it, but it was being done for testing purposes. With a stat reset likely incoming in the near future, it's not going to impact anything in the long-run (especially considering those you saw already had probably a 30 million SP average between them just playing normally). We were seeing how abuseable it was, and at the time were discussing ways to prevent it come release, because we all agree this is a stupid thing to have possible. We did it a few games to see its overall effect, and then submitted (or will submit) reports (not on the forums so others can recreate it) to the devs to let them know the issue is present and our thoughts on what to do to stop it.
Uncle AWOL Protheans BetaMax. 38	Posted - 2012.08.05 19:31:00 - [22] - Quote Remember this is a beta. and we are going to get wiped soon. this thread was the entire POINT in doing it. so that the community would respond negatively to boosting and CCP would do something to stop it. which they would have done anyway. In essence, the entire "boosting" session was completely null because it doesnt matter anyway.
Captain-Awesome 38	Posted - 2012.08.05 19:37:00 - [23] - Quote Hey, I'm one of the guys that did it, I'm also the guy that emailed CCP about it. just so you know - you can't kill them I won't go into why - but you were lucky we couldn't be bothered to kill you (no point), infact we were hoping you'd jump in one of the turrets. either way - I recommend any possible abuse should be done and stomped out now rather than emergency patches when the game goes live, where abuse will be a lot more secretive, and response will be slower. We did it last night, and reported it straight after. It was simply to prove it was achievable. We'll do it again next build too as stated.
Uncle AWOL Protheans BetaMax. 38	Posted - 2012.08.05 19:37:00 - [24] - Quote I second this. ^
Otosan Ookami Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 33	Posted - 2012.08.05 19:45:00 - [25] - Quote To point out, these are people who had 30-45m+ SP before testing this exploit, and with the wipe upcoming, this is exactly the time to be breaking, and bending systems. ( I was on the outside in an alt Peppering them with CreoDron fire for giggles, 0 SP.) This is a Closed beta with NO permanence other than our reserved Names. We're doing our jobs as unpaid Interns of CCP. Unless you prefer we test this sort of problem at the Beginning of a test cycle? Would you like to see a few dozen people with 50m+ SP by week two? I'm more on the side of Wider knowledge, because it will be too easy to make a phantom corp in Nulsec simply to grind SP off with to level actual Mercs. Also, as an Anti-Vehicle specialist, the thought of finding one of these circle-lovefests makes me drool. PS Every moment of the test was done OPENLY on the C3 voice comm channel for the beta, you could always join us in the C3 channel yourself, the more ways we break the game now, the better the final product ends up being. IRC channel is a good place to work with your fellow Interns as well https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=22699&find=unread You'd think more people with this much love for the game would be more participatory here.
DichromaticB3C Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.08.05 19:53:00 - [26] - Quote Captain-Awesome wrote: Hey, I'm one of the guys that did it, I'm also the guy that emailed CCP about it. just so you know - you can't kill them I won't go into why - but you were lucky we couldn't be bothered to kill you (no point), infact we were hoping you'd jump in one of the turrets. either way - I recommend any possible abuse should be done and stomped out now rather than emergency patches when the game goes live, where abuse will be a lot more secretive, and response will be slower. We did it last night, and reported it straight after. It was simply to prove it was achievable. We'll do it again next build too as stated. Then I'll just have to hop in again. If for nothing else than to annoy the pretentious one.
Captain-Awesome 38	Posted - 2012.08.05 20:19:00 - [27] - Quote you're welcome to join us but it's far from pretentious. I humbly await (with this) the scores of people who complain about an exploit that wasn't found during beta because people complained about an exploit in beta.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.05 22:16:00 - [28] - Quote Trying to find ways to break the game in order to clue in the devs is exactly what we are supposed to be doing in the first place. Some people whine about not having fun or stats, but this particular thread is complaining about testers actually doing their jobs...
Degren Cthulhu Bragian Order Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2012.08.05 22:36:00 - [29] - Quote so can a tank, tank another tank with remote rep support?
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.08.05 22:39:00 - [30] - Quote Degren Cthulhu wrote: so can a tank, tank another tank with remote rep support? I don't know if a tank can tank a tank while tanking another tank but a tank should tank a tank if a tank can tank a tank while tanking.



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