DUST Search - The death of a Sagaris

Bresker Veyne wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Bresker Veyne wrote:

So, basically, it's not possible to destroy a well outfitted sagaris with a driver who has half a brain? While all these strategies seem viable, they leave out a key problem: the rest of the guys team.

A sagaris requires a lot of teamwork to be taken down, but when half of your team (or more) is focused on taking one tank, you still have the rest of their team shooting at you. And when you're in your AV dropsuit, killing infantry isn't exactly easy.

It will be a lot more interesting if we get webifiers and nos. Freeze the enemy tank and then disable it's armor and shield reppers = dead tank. It would also require teamwork, but you wouldn't need half your team and it would give the logistics guy an important role.

Nos and Webs wont stop a Passive Buffer tank.

Regardless, I don't think people quite understand the true purpose of a tank, and its not to kill people, not exactly.

I don't aggree with the 'it's a tank, what do you expect argument'. If we would follow that thinking, dropships should be able to fly a lot higher! Come on, they're airplanes, why do they fly so low? Let the dropships fly amongst the clouds and let them drop people and bombs on the battlefield without getting shot from infantry!
I'd also expect a lot more groaning and limbs flying around. It's a battlefield, people are firing pretty powerful weapons against each other, yet we don't lose any limbs? Nor do we say anything when we're getting shot? Doesn't sound like any real infantry!

So let's think within the boundaries of gaming. Imbalance is always present in gaming, however it should never be too greatly imbalanced so that it discourages people from playing their own style and forces everyone in one direction. Should a tank be powerful, yes. Should you require 6 people to take down one tank, no. Some teamwork between a logistics an AV, maybe two AV, should be enough to give any tank driver nightmares. There should be no point in the game where a player can say: "Ok, I've trained all my skills to the max and I have plenty of isk, now I can just kill everyone with my tank (or any other build for that matter) without worrying about anything." There should always be a challenge, even for the tank drivers.

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Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:52:00 - [1] - Quote Having fought the fearsome Sagaris a couple of times with my proto Forge Gun (never being able to kill one though), I was wondering what tactics other people use to actually take one down? It's almost impossible to find another partner that can help out to destroy one of the bastards. It also seems like people only call down their sagaris if their team is winning. And once you have two of them sitting in your spawn and even blowing up the dropships leaving the game seems to be the best option (even better when everyone leaves and the other team gets no sp and isk). So I'm curious to hear about winning strategies to use against a Sagaris.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:55:00 - [2] - Quote I often use a logi suit equipped with a swarm launcher, nanohive and uplink to deal with vehicles. It means I can pin down a sagaris (even if I don't destroy it) for long periods. If someone else comes along with a swarm launcher, then great, we can chase him off, severely damage him or even destroy him.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.08.02 17:03:00 - [3] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: Having fought the fearsome Sagaris a couple of times with my proto Forge Gun (never being able to kill one though), I was wondering what tactics other people use to actually take one down? It's almost impossible to find another partner that can help out to destroy one of the bastards. It also seems like people only call down their sagaris if their team is winning. And once you have two of them sitting in your spawn and even blowing up the dropships leaving the game seems to be the best option (even better when everyone leaves and the other team gets no sp and isk). So I'm curious to hear about winning strategies to use against a Sagaris. I usually hit them up close in areas where they think they're safe and finish them off as they try to run. Also, putting a shot or two into the ground near them in an area where you know you have the advantage makes them think you're using a weak forge gun, and they will usually drive up nice and close or just sit there trying to tag you. You can usually finish them before they notice their mistake. Announcing their presence and position on mic is very helpful as one extra guy with swarms, AV grenades, or even just some distracting AR fire will be pretty helpful.
Kitt 514 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 94	Posted - 2012.08.02 17:20:00 - [4] - Quote I've spent a lot of time hunting tanks in this game, and it can be a lot of fun if done right. One thing you should pay special attention to is if they have used their active repper lately. The active repper can easily rep through your shots, and the key is to get them while its down. You should also be positioning yourself so that you can hit them not only where they are, but when they start taking damage, you must ask yourself where they would be likely to retreat to, and make sure you can cover that as well. This is highly situational, based on who has what points, and where the combat is taking place, but a general rule of thumb is that they move towards their own spawn. If you see the active rep go, stop shooting. You aren't doing anything to it, and all you're doing is giving away your position. Stop firing, and wait for them to stop again. Most tank drivers don't want to stay out of the battle for that long. Tanks take a lot more damage from the top and rear. The sides and front are particularly strong. Don't engage the good tanks unless you are confident you can take them down. Finally, you should be using the prototype assault forge gun with 2 damage mods. The regular forge gun just can't compare to the damage of the assault. Combining these should yield you some success, but going up against good tanks is hard.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.08.02 18:33:00 - [5] - Quote adv. swarm and av grenades, finish off with any weapon available. Once the shield is down a sagaris is no stronger in armour then a sica. I ran out of av grenades bringing the shield down,so I chewed through the armour with boundless breech smg. The driver was probbaly very angry a smg was listed as the kill shot Telling if it's a sica, soma, gunnlogi, madrugar, sagaris, or surya is important. Militia tanks die to small arms, hav to anti-tank weapons, marauders need teamwork and/or a lot of practice with great plan and gear. A lot depends on the user of the tank. I have a sagaris sit still turning its turret as I solo it, driver apparently didn't know how to drive or fit it. When I drive a sagaris it survives most of the match, but most of the time is killed so I break even. I know how to fit it and have right skills, but suck at driving. I once had a sagaris get stuck by objective b, was rocking back and forth to get out when 4 or 5 scouts started tossing remote explosives. 16,000+ ehp doesn't help then. The top drivers are very hard to kill unless several av specialists use good teamwork. So if the tank is driven by somebody in top 20 of leaderboard, run till you have killed many marauders driven by lesser drivers. Having done both, anti-vehicle seems more profitable then tank driving, but tank driving will give better kdr. Seems balanced, with preference about whats more important/fun tipping scale to either way.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.08.02 18:49:00 - [6] - Quote I like to hitch a ride to an elevated position like the center platform and Swarm tanks already engaged in combat. (Too bad a Proto SL with multiple damage mods can barely scratch the paint on some of 'em.) Being a scout helps, too. Most tanks won't expect you to jump down and chase after them when they try to hide under a structure. Teamwork is going to be the key; the OP's Forge Gunning would be a perfect compliment to my Swarm sniping.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.08.02 19:21:00 - [7] - Quote i havent yet destroyed one, its hard when they fire 2 small missle's and a large railgun at you all at once.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.08.02 19:58:00 - [8] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: adv. swarm and av grenades, finish off with any weapon available. Once the shield is down a sagaris is no stronger in armour then a sica. I ran out of av grenades bringing the shield down,so I chewed through the armour with boundless breech smg. The driver was probbaly very angry a smg was listed as the kill shot Keep in mind that smallarm weapons are bugged and do 5x damage to vehicles. Also if the tank sat there that long to let you deplete his armor, then he was an idiot and deserved to die. Anyways, I drive both Surya and Sageris with maxed out skills and whatnot, and generally speaking any single AV enemy isn't going to do much to me. You need to have multiple people dealing sustained damage over a period of time.
Icy Tiger 496	Posted - 2012.08.02 20:27:00 - [9] - Quote I can take out some Sagaris tanks in my Madrugar. Even if it means my tanks staying below half armor for the rest of the game.
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:12:00 - [10] - Quote So, basically, it's not possible to destroy a well outfitted sagaris with a driver who has half a brain? While all these strategies seem viable, they leave out a key problem: the rest of the guys team. A sagaris requires a lot of teamwork to be taken down, but when half of your team (or more) is focused on taking one tank, you still have the rest of their team shooting at you. And when you're in your AV dropsuit, killing infantry isn't exactly easy. It will be a lot more interesting if we get webifiers and nos. Freeze the enemy tank and then disable it's armor and shield reppers = dead tank. It would also require teamwork, but you wouldn't need half your team and it would give the logistics guy an important role.

Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:34:00 - [11] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: So, basically, it's not possible to destroy a well outfitted sagaris with a driver who has half a brain? While all these strategies seem viable, they leave out a key problem: the rest of the guys team. A sagaris requires a lot of teamwork to be taken down, but when half of your team (or more) is focused on taking one tank, you still have the rest of their team shooting at you. And when you're in your AV dropsuit, killing infantry isn't exactly easy. It will be a lot more interesting if we get webifiers and nos. Freeze the enemy tank and then disable it's armor and shield reppers = dead tank. It would also require teamwork, but you wouldn't need half your team and it would give the logistics guy an important role. true, but thats the entire point. if you dont have teamwork, your gonna be poor very fast.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:43:00 - [12] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: So, basically, it's not possible to destroy a well outfitted sagaris with a driver who has half a brain? While all these strategies seem viable, they leave out a key problem: the rest of the guys team. A sagaris requires a lot of teamwork to be taken down, but when half of your team (or more) is focused on taking one tank, you still have the rest of their team shooting at you. And when you're in your AV dropsuit, killing infantry isn't exactly easy. It will be a lot more interesting if we get webifiers and nos. Freeze the enemy tank and then disable it's armor and shield reppers = dead tank. It would also require teamwork, but you wouldn't need half your team and it would give the logistics guy an important role. Nos and Webs wont stop a Passive Buffer tank. Regardless, I don't think people quite understand the true purpose of a tank, and its not to kill people, not exactly.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:47:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Bresker Veyne wrote: So, basically, it's not possible to destroy a well outfitted sagaris with a driver who has half a brain? While all these strategies seem viable, they leave out a key problem: the rest of the guys team. A sagaris requires a lot of teamwork to be taken down, but when half of your team (or more) is focused on taking one tank, you still have the rest of their team shooting at you. And when you're in your AV dropsuit, killing infantry isn't exactly easy. It will be a lot more interesting if we get webifiers and nos. Freeze the enemy tank and then disable it's armor and shield reppers = dead tank. It would also require teamwork, but you wouldn't need half your team and it would give the logistics guy an important role. Nos and Webs wont stop a Passive Buffer tank. Regardless, I don't think people quite understand the true purpose of a tank, and its not to kill people, not exactly. careful pokey......be very clear with what your about to say lol. but yes, you are are on the right track.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:49:00 - [14] - Quote Never said I'd actually share said info
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:51:00 - [15] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Bresker Veyne wrote: So, basically, it's not possible to destroy a well outfitted sagaris with a driver who has half a brain? While all these strategies seem viable, they leave out a key problem: the rest of the guys team. A sagaris requires a lot of teamwork to be taken down, but when half of your team (or more) is focused on taking one tank, you still have the rest of their team shooting at you. And when you're in your AV dropsuit, killing infantry isn't exactly easy. It will be a lot more interesting if we get webifiers and nos. Freeze the enemy tank and then disable it's armor and shield reppers = dead tank. It would also require teamwork, but you wouldn't need half your team and it would give the logistics guy an important role. Nos and Webs wont stop a Passive Buffer tank. Regardless, I don't think people quite understand the true purpose of a tank, and its not to kill people, not exactly. I don't aggree with the 'it's a tank, what do you expect argument'. If we would follow that thinking, dropships should be able to fly a lot higher! Come on, they're airplanes, why do they fly so low? Let the dropships fly amongst the clouds and let them drop people and bombs on the battlefield without getting shot from infantry! I'd also expect a lot more groaning and limbs flying around. It's a battlefield, people are firing pretty powerful weapons against each other, yet we don't lose any limbs? Nor do we say anything when we're getting shot? Doesn't sound like any real infantry! So let's think within the boundaries of gaming. Imbalance is always present in gaming, however it should never be too greatly imbalanced so that it discourages people from playing their own style and forces everyone in one direction. Should a tank be powerful, yes. Should you require 6 people to take down one tank, no. Some teamwork between a logistics an AV, maybe two AV, should be enough to give any tank driver nightmares. There should be no point in the game where a player can say: "Ok, I've trained all my skills to the max and I have plenty of isk, now I can just kill everyone with my tank (or any other build for that matter) without worrying about anything." There should always be a challenge, even for the tank drivers.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:56:00 - [16] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Bresker Veyne wrote: So, basically, it's not possible to destroy a well outfitted sagaris with a driver who has half a brain? While all these strategies seem viable, they leave out a key problem: the rest of the guys team. A sagaris requires a lot of teamwork to be taken down, but when half of your team (or more) is focused on taking one tank, you still have the rest of their team shooting at you. And when you're in your AV dropsuit, killing infantry isn't exactly easy. It will be a lot more interesting if we get webifiers and nos. Freeze the enemy tank and then disable it's armor and shield reppers = dead tank. It would also require teamwork, but you wouldn't need half your team and it would give the logistics guy an important role. Nos and Webs wont stop a Passive Buffer tank. Regardless, I don't think people quite understand the true purpose of a tank, and its not to kill people, not exactly. I don't aggree with the 'it's a tank, what do you expect argument'. If we would follow that thinking, dropships should be able to fly a lot higher! Come on, they're airplanes, why do they fly so low? Let the dropships fly amongst the clouds and let them drop people and bombs on the battlefield without getting shot from infantry! I'd also expect a lot more groaning and limbs flying around. It's a battlefield, people are firing pretty powerful weapons against each other, yet we don't lose any limbs? Nor do we say anything when we're getting shot? Doesn't sound like any real infantry! So let's think within the boundaries of gaming. Imbalance is always present in gaming, however it should never be too greatly imbalanced so that it discourages people from playing their own style and forces everyone in one direction. Should a tank be powerful, yes. Should you require 6 people to take down one tank, no. Some teamwork between a logistics an AV, maybe two AV, should be enough to give any tank driver nightmares. There should be no point in the game where a player can say: "Ok, I've trained all my skills to the max and I have plenty of isk, now I can just kill everyone with my tank (or any other build for that matter) without worrying about anything." There should always be a challenge, even for the tank drivers. irrelevant. we will get fighters soon. dropships are for carting fireteams around to objectives with strategic evacs and such. Tanks aside, marauders should need a great deal of effort from pubbies to take down. Corporations wont have that problem cause they work together and actually have mics.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:57:00 - [17] - Quote iv killed afew solo but most just run away under the building near C to charge their shields,the swarm when using it at a good vantage point seems to have a advantage over the direct approach of forge gun users.
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.08.03 02:00:00 - [18] - Quote Oh man, I'm gonna enjoy flying around in a fighter! However! I hope they don't make the fighters too powerful! I like having a challenge, being in a 'press button destroy everything' vehicle gets boring after a while.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.03 02:02:00 - [19] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: Oh man, I'm gonna enjoy flying around in a fighter! However! I hope they don't make the fighters too powerful! I like having a challenge, being in a 'press button destroy everything' vehicle gets boring after a while. there are none of those in the game....if you have experienced such a situation however, rejoice for you have been on a good team or fought against scrubs.
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2012.08.03 02:13:00 - [20] - Quote My best advice for taking out tanks by yourself: - proto swarm - light weapon mods. - nanohives - nanohives - nanohives - nanohives - dropship (i use militia) I use proto assault suit call in dropship, go to center platform toss a hive and blast away. Tank runs in any direction jump in dropship, give chase, park dropship up high, continue bombardment. If I run outta ammo, toss a nanohive! Also when up close to a tank don't lock on just start blasting your swarms!

Stupid Drunk1 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 96	Posted - 2012.08.03 03:25:00 - [21] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: Having fought the fearsome Sagaris a couple of times with my proto Forge Gun (never being able to kill one though), I was wondering what tactics other people use to actually take one down? It's almost impossible to find another partner that can help out to destroy one of the bastards. It also seems like people only call down their sagaris if their team is winning. And once you have two of them sitting in your spawn and even blowing up the dropships leaving the game seems to be the best option (even better when everyone leaves and the other team gets no sp and isk). So I'm curious to hear about winning strategies to use against a Sagaris. OPINION:This due to abunch of warriors running around killing each others with randoms by force; with randoms skills, and radom resources by force. Ever played 51 pick up with a deck of card? Think individuals acting each alone versus a collective acting each in concert. MY MIND: ASSHATERY is all good, entire corperations will quit in battle just to waste time on that map. You will be required to find corps, groups to make gains in this game, there is a reason were all in a default corp, unlike any fps I have ever played.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.08.03 04:03:00 - [22] - Quote Belzeebub Santana wrote: My best advice for taking out tanks by yourself: - proto swarm - light weapon mods. - nanohives - nanohives - nanohives - nanohives - dropship (i use militia) I use proto assault suit call in dropship, go to center platform toss a hive and blast away. Tank runs in any direction jump in dropship, give chase, park dropship up high, continue bombardment. If I run outta ammo, toss a nanohive! Also when up close to a tank don't lock on just start blasting your swarms! This. For the current map, just get on a tower, you can shoot at around 1/3 the field when the swarm launcher isn't bugging out, plus they don't realize where exactly you are until it's too late. I recommend the scout suit with the swarm launcher, as it lets you have the highest mobility to chase. Nanohives are critical, since you generally have to pepper them with missiles until they are on cooldown with their repper, then that's your window to open up on them. Being higher up gives you the advantage of line of sight (often) as well as staying out of the way of enemy infantry. It's a vehicle requiring 5-6 million skill points+ to do well, plus 3 people are in there. It's supposed to be hard, but I've solo'd them before and prototype weapons are really important, but nanohives are a must. Forge guns are stronger vs Vehicles, but they're slower and not very good at keeping chase.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.08.03 04:04:00 - [23] - Quote It takes 3 people to make a Marauder, the best tanks in the game, truly effective. It takes about 3 people with the best AV weapons in the game, to kill said Marauder. Working as intended.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.08.03 04:07:00 - [24] - Quote Stupid Drunk1 wrote: You will be required to find corps, groups to make gains in this game, there is a reason were all in a default corp, unlike any fps I have ever played. In EVE you are always in a corp.. either your racial generic corp or a player corp.
Stupid Drunk1 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 96	Posted - 2012.08.03 05:17:00 - [25] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: Stupid Drunk1 wrote: You will be required to find corps, groups to make gains in this game, there is a reason were all in a default corp, unlike any fps I have ever played. In EVE you are always in a corp.. either your racial generic corp or a player corp. Thanks for stating facts that get glossed over. my point still true EVE is the only mmo that starts you in a corp or group, its naval warfare with the best group system. Were playing Dust an FPS.... We now get dust that will have the best grouping system with ground warfare; the only FPS with default clans/groups/corperations. This is not Dust514, the beta is closer to MAG in its finished state with randoms vs randoms, or groups vs randoms, with luck of the draw to groups q-synching can group up, on opposing teams. MAG failed due their horrible group system, they tried to balance the solo gamer with groups which is impossible. From the very begining of MAG life groups should have been treated as monarchs with the options to have multiple clan leaders, or none for, to truly customize clan structure during in game. To lessen the burden of using external sources to organize clans, groups, corps The CCP devs need to give groups everything they want for organizing themselves, forget everything else, if we do not have the exact same grouping system from EvE in function were toast, if we get all balances to gameplay etc, because the game will survive because of its community that has fun playing with friends, in mag any clan that wanted to run diffrently still only had 1 person in game that could only kick officers, while a officer could kick everybody, two of the stupidest rules/regulations I have sseen.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.03 05:39:00 - [26] - Quote most likely they will use the same mechanics as EVE. Why wouldnt they? its proven to work and its easier than just creating a whole new system.


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