DUST Search - Fixing the gun game

Nova Knife wrote:

Super Cargo wrote:

Some serious work needs to go into the gun game of Dust for this to be a fun game. Here's a list of the problems.

2) Range: Guns should have an effective range based on what class they are (SMG, Assault, Sniper). However, Dust takes it to the extreme and makes weapon classes only effective inside a set range. SMGs should be able to hit a target that is decently far away. The balance comes from damage and accuracy drop-off in the case of SMGs. The largest problem is the assault rifles, which have an extremely limited range and are useless in CQC. A rifle should be less effective in CQC, not useless.

3) Hip Firing: A lot of the problems here are related to hit detection, but hip firing is also surprisingly useless.

2) Assault rifles have the widest effective range in the game, and are far from useless in CQC. Before skills AR's are at 40m optimal and falloff at 80m, if memory serves.

3) Hip firing in dust is almost better than ADS on some weapons. All those breach weapons you're seeing on the killfeed? People are hipfiring those.

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Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.07.25 19:17:00 - [1] - Quote Some serious work needs to go into the gun game of Dust for this to be a fun game. Here's a list of the problems. 1) Hit detection: The amount of distance needed to lead a moving target is ridiculous. I firing a ******* gun, their bullets move fast. I shouldn't have to aim 5 meters ahead of a target when the target is only 20 meters away. 2) Range: Guns should have an effective range based on what class they are (SMG, Assault, Sniper). However, Dust takes it to the extreme and makes weapon classes only effective inside a set range. SMGs should be able to hit a target that is decently far away. The balance comes from damage and accuracy drop-off in the case of SMGs. The largest problem is the assault rifles, which have an extremely limited range and are useless in CQC. A rifle should be less effective in CQC, not useless. 3) Hip Firing: A lot of the problems here are related to hit detection, but hip firing is also surprisingly useless. 4) "Feel" : All the guns feel the same when being used. The SMG feels just like the Assault which feels just like the HMG. There is no visual feedback when firing of a gun having more or less kick. They all feel the same. 5) Reticle is distracting: Enough said. This could be solved by allowing scopes and reticles to be purchased. Not only as a cosmetic change, but as a functional change. Shooting is what makes FPS games exist, obviously. Get the mechanics down early, because you don't want DUST to get panned at released because of terrible shooting. Cargo
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 788	Posted - 2012.07.25 19:27:00 - [2] - Quote Super Cargo wrote: Some serious work needs to go into the gun game of Dust for this to be a fun game. Here's a list of the problems. 2) Range: Guns should have an effective range based on what class they are (SMG, Assault, Sniper). However, Dust takes it to the extreme and makes weapon classes only effective inside a set range. SMGs should be able to hit a target that is decently far away. The balance comes from damage and accuracy drop-off in the case of SMGs. The largest problem is the assault rifles, which have an extremely limited range and are useless in CQC. A rifle should be less effective in CQC, not useless. 3) Hip Firing: A lot of the problems here are related to hit detection, but hip firing is also surprisingly useless. 2) Assault rifles have the widest effective range in the game, and are far from useless in CQC. Before skills AR's are at 40m optimal and falloff at 80m, if memory serves. 3) Hip firing in dust is almost better than ADS on some weapons. All those breach weapons you're seeing on the killfeed? People are hipfiring those.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.07.25 19:29:00 - [3] - Quote I occasionally forget that my SMGs have ADS at all. (Even now that I've pumped the range up a bunch.)
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.25 19:33:00 - [4] - Quote 1.)Agree, but the DEVs are working on it. 2.)Disagree. Assault rifles have excellent range with 2 lvls in sharpshooter skill. SMG's have epic damage drop at range. They rock in CQC. Assault rifles are far from useless though. 3.)Totally disagree. Hip fire is OP. Hence the spray and pray game play. 4.)Agree completely, but I think the guys from DICE will fix this problem. 5.) I'm fine with it, lots of others don't like it. Check out some other threads, there's lots of threads already discussing this.
PDIGGY22 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 189	Posted - 2012.07.25 19:40:00 - [5] - Quote auto aim removal and hit detection should be 1 and 2
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.25 19:43:00 - [6] - Quote PDIGGY22 wrote: auto aim removal and hit detection should be 1 and 2 Top priorities IMHO, especially with the KBM support.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.25 19:44:00 - [7] - Quote Tony, I can't believe that I just gave you a like. Good points all round. That said, I use ADS on my AR for mid-range, but a lot of the time I use hip-fire.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.07.25 19:46:00 - [8] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: 1.)Agree, but the DEVs are working on it. 2.)Disagree. Assault rifles have excellent range with 2 lvls in sharpshooter skill. SMG's have epic damage drop at range. They rock in CQC. Assault rifles are far from useless though. 3.)Totally disagree. Hip fire is OP. Hence the spray and pray game play. 4.)Agree completely, but I think the guys from DICE will fix this problem. 5.) I'm fine with it, lots of others don't like it. Check out some other threads, there's lots of threads already discussing this. Yea, I even made a thread about it a couple of weeks ago, but new threads garner more attention than rezzed threads. Sharpshooter is a skill I just purchased but haven't leveled up yet. I'm glad that it makes a difference and am looking forward to actually hitting things.
Harmony Havoc Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.07.25 22:06:00 - [9] - Quote the scope for the assault rifle is the worst. from the game play ive seen from planetside 2 that is what this game needs ability to look down sights. Have some nice sci fi holographic sights would really make the the guns feel better
Maken Tosch 263	Posted - 2012.07.25 22:58:00 - [10] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: 1.)Agree, but the DEVs are working on it. 2.)Disagree. Assault rifles have excellent range with 2 lvls in sharpshooter skill. SMG's have epic damage drop at range. They rock in CQC. Assault rifles are far from useless though. 3.)Totally disagree. Hip fire is OP. Hence the spray and pray game play. 4.)Agree completely, but I think the guys from DICE will fix this problem. 5.) I'm fine with it, lots of others don't like it. Check out some other threads, there's lots of threads already discussing this. This.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.25 23:34:00 - [11] - Quote Super Cargo wrote: Shooting is what makes FPS games exist, obviously. Get the mechanics down early, because you don't want DUST to get panned at released because of terrible shooting. You know, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect that was one of the core points to the beta... Good thread, OP. Well-made points, and providing constructive feedback instead of claiming the game "sucks" when it's still in beta! +1 for the novelty value of that alone.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.07.26 01:26:00 - [12] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Super Cargo wrote: Shooting is what makes FPS games exist, obviously. Get the mechanics down early, because you don't want DUST to get panned at released because of terrible shooting. You know, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect that was one of the core points to the beta... Good thread, OP. Well-made points, and providing constructive feedback instead of claiming the game "sucks" when it's still in beta! +1 for the novelty value of that alone. My objectivism waxes and wanes depending on the day. I'm glad you stopped by when I was actually trying to be objective.
Matthias Blackclover Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.07.26 01:36:00 - [13] - Quote I remember seeing old footage of a different ADS which looked similar to a "dot sight." I have a feeling that once the different races are represented that different ADS sights will as well.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.07.26 03:55:00 - [14] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: PDIGGY22 wrote: auto aim removal and hit detection should be 1 and 2 Top priorities IMHO, especially with the KBM support. If eve players get KBM support, I get auto-aim.
Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.07.26 05:47:00 - [15] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Super Cargo wrote: Some serious work needs to go into the gun game of Dust for this to be a fun game. Here's a list of the problems. 2) Range: Guns should have an effective range based on what class they are (SMG, Assault, Sniper). However, Dust takes it to the extreme and makes weapon classes only effective inside a set range. SMGs should be able to hit a target that is decently far away. The balance comes from damage and accuracy drop-off in the case of SMGs. The largest problem is the assault rifles, which have an extremely limited range and are useless in CQC. A rifle should be less effective in CQC, not useless. 3) Hip Firing: A lot of the problems here are related to hit detection, but hip firing is also surprisingly useless. 2) Assault rifles have the widest effective range in the game, and are far from useless in CQC. Before skills AR's are at 40m optimal and falloff at 80m, if memory serves. 3) Hip firing in dust is almost better than ADS on some weapons. All those breach weapons you're seeing on the killfeed? People are hipfiring those. 40m with a drop off of 80m for an AR is a joke when modern AR's have an effective range far beyond that. Also I agree on the sights being utterly horrible.
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.07.26 05:52:00 - [16] - Quote The plasma rounds your weapons shoot dissipate due to round size and the round cooling. If able to sustain heat longer, longer range.
Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.07.26 06:07:00 - [17] - Quote Debacle Nano wrote: The plasma rounds your weapons shoot dissipate due to round size and the round cooling. If able to sustain heat longer, longer range. Do you know the closest target when you're on the range for your marksmen test is 50m while the furthest are 300m. I'm sorry but as far off into the future as the EVE universe is a "plasma" based AR should have no problem reaching those numbers without upgrades. Come on Lightspeed travel, clones that can transfer thought but my "plasma" rifle has a drop off of 80m...
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.07.26 06:09:00 - [18] - Quote Regis Mark V wrote: Debacle Nano wrote: The plasma rounds your weapons shoot dissipate due to round size and the round cooling. If able to sustain heat longer, longer range. Do you know the closest target when you're on the range for your marksmen test is 50m while the furthest are 300m. I'm sorry but as far off into the future as the EVE universe is a "plasma" based AR should have no problem reaching those numbers without upgrades. Come on Lightspeed travel, clones that can transfer thought but my "plasma" rifle has a drop off of 80m... Lol i was messin around. Too tired to look up anything intelligent.


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