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mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.07.24 19:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been mulling over some ideas for the integration of E-Sports with the universe of New Eden and would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
Ideas, feedback, suggestions welcome. Either here or in the comments on the blog.
I'm especially looking for input from those versed in economics and media/entertainment law (you'll see why)
M out. |
mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 22:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
@ Fuma Centuri: Seems to be working for everyone else, try clearing your browser cache. From my understanding of the presentations at FF (I was there and spoke to a few of the Devs) The Gladiator Arena is not set in stone as yet. I know I'm biased but I reckon my way would better integrate the E-Sports side of Dust into the universe. Thanks for yr feedback though :D
@Everyone else, thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.
Part 4 should be up tomorrow. |
mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
There would be gambling and corruption, Real world sports leagues don't make money from gambling (not officially at least) they make money from sponsorship and the sale of broadcast rights.
I fully expect an underground economy to arise which would cater to the seedier side of professional sports.
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mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 09:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fuma Centuri wrote:dust badger wrote:yeah i cant see how they can stop people rigging this It's the same way with alliance tournaments. There is no way to prevent people from rigging the results. I don't want betting to be shady. Betting on gladiators needs to be NPC-controlled. This is the only way to guarantee a fair cut of the earnings to the gladiator himself. Broadcast rights are crap and a dime a dozen (and also should be free) compared to earning a percent of the whole bets pool.
Dust is an offshoot of EVE. Corruption, underhandedness, Machiavellian machinations, and meta-gaming are part of the universe. Get used to it and start practising, The big alliances in EVE have had a decade of practice and unless you're ready they will completely dominate the Dust E-Sports scene, whatever form it might take, by fair means or foul.
CCP's attitude is that as long as it doesn't violate the ToS and EULA (hack the client, exploit a known bug, etc etc) that it's fair game. You're going to have to get used to that in Dust as well.
There may well be an official and legitimate channel for betting, but this does not preclude there being an underground culture for it. Makes life in New Eden more interesting, and more interesting is more fun. |
mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 14:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Where did I say that broadcast rights would be the main income? They would be a part of the legitimate income, just as they are in real world sports leagues along with sponsorship, and merchandising.
Sky bought the exclusive broadcast rights to the UK Premier League for -ú3billion (they pass that cost on the those who subscribe and they show ads so make money from sponsorship too) to their service or pay-per-view for matches.
I know of no real world sports associations that get the major part of their income from gambling, in fact in a lot of countries and sports to do so is considered highly unethical. Gambling goes on, no doubt, but it is not a part of the mainstream sport culture and certainly not a part of sport's legitimate income.
Most of the individual team's income comes from ticket sales, people pay at the gate to go see their team play live. This is not practical in EVE or Dust for obvious reasons so some other way has to be found. My idea proposes a system, and the associated mechanics, which will allow teams to gain an income from playing matches and allowing people to watch. I was aiming at a system which mirrors the way such things work in real-life, where gambling is a grey area, as closely as possible. It's the grey areas of New Eden where the most interesting player stories come from, and I'm sure we all want to empower players to tell those stories.
The roles I laid out in the second post in my series are not mutually exclusive. A team need not sell their broadcast rights to a third partybut may be their own broadcaster if they want. |
mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 11:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
There's plenty of room for the 'little-league' players, that is beyond the scope of my concept however. The concept I put forward only deals with individual players in terms of how they fit into the bigger system of Teams, Leagues etc. Saying that the inclusion of systems and mechanics that facilitate the formation of player organised teams, competitions and tournaments and the secondary industries that could profit from these excludes the little guy is nonsense. Does the existence of the systems that allow for corporations and alliances in EVE prevent the lone hi-sec miner/PvE'r from having a place in EVE? No, it doesn't. The little guys are not going to change the face of New Eden, but then they shouldn't expect to, doesn't mean that there isn't a place for them.
Define 'Official and Legal'. Do you mean controlled and regulated by CCP? CCP won't do it for a variety of reasons.
1) Their development philosophy has always been merely to provide the tools and opportunities to players to create emergent content in their universe, staying out of the economics and politics of New Eden as much as is possible.
2) The tin-foil hatters will cry foul at every conceivable opportunity. Accusations of favouritism, CCP permitted cheating, etc etc will fly.
CCP should remain as hands off from any gambling systems as possible, merely providing the means for players to organise their own (which they're going to do anyway whether CCP provides tools for it or not)
It is the hands off approach that CCP has taken towards EVE with regard to the regulation of player behaviour that is what has made EVE so great, I see no reason for CCP to change that approach for Dust.
ISK is not the true currency of EVE, it is just a number, a way of keeping score. The true currency of EVE is trust, and the risk that you could trust the wrong people is where the thrill comes from and what creates the greatest stories. |
mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
@ Fuma Centuri: There is nothing to prevent lone players participating in just such a gladiatorial system as you describe. I'll restate that the lone gladiator, and contests involving lone gladiators fall outside the scope of my concept. This does not mean that they cannot exist. I'm not disagreeing with you, there should be a way for a single player to just jump into an e-sports match (though why they would want to when they'd earn more just jumping into a normal dust match), play, and make money.
There should also be an avenue for organised teams and leagues to exist and make their money. One does not necessarily preclude the other.
You're trying to start an argument over nothing.
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mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 08:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Everything is optional, that was the general idea of the original concept. To create systems and mechanics which widened the options available to both Dust and EVE players. None of it would be compulsory, just as taking and holding 0.0 space as part of a big alliance in EVE is optional.
To support this argument: I've been playing EVE since January 2004 and have never been involved in the 0.0 'endgame' of EVE. I've never been forced to do anything in EVE. And the same should apply to Dust.
EVE is a game about choices, if you choose to go the 0.0 route, fair enough. Its a hard road and the rewards are (more or less) proportional to that. If a Dust corp or player chooses to go the pro-esports route there should be as many ways to do so as possible with the rewards scaling with the level of involvement. My concept is merely one idea of how it could happen, and shouldn't in any way prevent there being other avenues available.
I still get the feeling that we're talking at cross-purposes. Your concern is the micro-economic scale of the individual player, mine is at the macro scale of how an entirely new entertainment industry could be introduced to New Eden. |
mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
@vermacht Doe: What? How is that relevant to the discussion at hand? Put it in Feedback/Requests (Ain't gonna happen though) |
mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 09:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sandromin Hes wrote:only error i've noticed so far is the Starcraft 2 comment, saying e-sports came from that game. It actually took off when Starcraft came out, and the Koreans got into it... but yeah, I'm going to continue reading it.
Edit: another thing, E-sports is actually fairly major on many computer games. IeSF is a major example, look it up.
Didn't really pop up on my radar until Starcraft 2, I know it's been around for a while but it's not really started to go mainstream in the west until recently. Your correction is noted though, thanks :D |
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mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 09:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
vermacht Doe wrote:Has selectable rules been confirmed? And if so who decides them
Nothing has been confirmed yet, merely that e-sports is something that CCP is looking at introducing. There is nothing set in stone as to the form(s) it will take.
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mandrill the red
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 17:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Link to part 5 added to OP.
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