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Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.20 20:40:00 - [1] - Quote I have seen a lot of posts on these forums of complaints that I think do not confirm with the mentality of what the game is/should be. Therefor instead of complaining this thread is to inform(and hopefully confirm with a dev.) what CCP is aiming for. This is not to flame about certain type of people or bash anything. Neither is this a bug report. Unless you consider people themselves a bugGÇª A bit about myself. Skip to the bear if you really donGÇÖt care. At the current moment I consider myself a pretty all round gamer, having no preference for any type of genre and having played a lot of games in the last 16-ish years of my life. I have loads of experience when it comes to games, both SP and MP. And played with the top tier in some of them. At the current moment I have dialled it down to being a bit more casual even though I still dissect and learn as much about the game I play as possible. However I do not play games till 5am anymore nor do I put all my possible time into it. I have a life nowGÇª And yes that surprised me too. What the is dust514? Dust 514 is an FPS expansion to the eve universe. As a first of its kind it will have consequences in both games. Therefor it will be depended on teamwork on both the battlefield and the EVE universe. Well damn it that sounds interesting, but how will this work? To fully understand it you should know that in the EVE universe there are player owned corporations. These corps(for short) actually have sovereignty in a certain parts of the universe and control a highly sophisticated economy, fleets, planets, player owned structures(POS) and loads more. Dust 514 will expand that in bringing a character based gameplay to the mix in form of an FPS. These players will be able to join corpses or answer contract request in roughly the same way they can currently be done in EVE. They will then be able to help a corp conquer or defend a certain systems in the EVE universe. Well I don't play EVE will I be able to interact with them? Yes you will to the full extent of dust514 however, EVE players will (probably) be able to support themselves both ways. For example: An EVE players sets out a private contract to himself worth a lot of ISK. He then accepts his own contract and earn lots of money. Or you will be able to access your own corp wallet(It is exactly what it sounds like). Sadly I cannot tell you the what all features of interaction will be since they have not been made public yet. Though expect them to be quiet large. Well you, EVE, and the universe. Though for some reason, I do like dust514 will I be able to enjoy it? Well that depends on you, like previously said, the game will be interacting with the EVE universe on a large scale. You will still be able to do high sec contracts. Witch for the non-eve players out there is essentially the same thing as playing on a public server. However, since they carry low to 0 risk in the EVE universe they will also have lower rewards. If you want to do higher quality contracts then you will probably need to interact with EVE. Well ok, I guess I can except that... But I am paying ISK per death. What is this, and will it mean in the long run? Something you don't see very often in games these days is the fact that in EVE and dust death is permanent. The only reason you can actually live twice or more during the course of the game is because of clones. The problem is that once you go out with a clone strapped with gear and die. Your equipment will stay with that particular clone. So unless your equipment is salvaged(which as far as IGÇÖm seeing now will play a part in dust) you will also lose your gear just as you would in real life. In the long run it will mean 2 things and to fully understand it, you will need to understand a bit of EVE mentality. In EVE there basically 2 kinds of GÇÿrewardsGÇÖ: TL;DR? Go to this little smiley" " -Skill based These are equivalent of the skill points you earn in game. You can completely upgrade your character with these points. As of now, there is no way to lose them in dust514, so if you would grind enough, you could get you character every skill in the game to LVL 5. The only major difference between dust and EVE, is that EVE skills are real time based. Where in dust they are based on in game performance(and probably more). You can kind-a compare it to XP if the concept is difficult to grasp. -ISK/AUR based ISK is the games main currency it can be earned in both games by doing contracts/missions, using the market and more. Just like in EVE, dust player will need to buy their gear of the market or construct it themselves(I will not go in depth on how this works/might work). Meaning that all the gear you can carry will be based on what you can afford. One of the biggest rules in the EVE universe is "Do not fly, what you can't afford to lose." The short explanation for this rule is that when you die you also lose whatever you had with you at the time. And you will have to re-buy/re-make that piece of equipment if you want to use it again. This can be both annoying and a huge advantage. Since market prices will be largely based on what players want for them. Meaning that if you kill a lot of assault fitted clones, the price of assault equipment might go up because of the high demand, just like a real economy. In short this means that if you want to play with (good) expensive gear. You will need to find a way to earn enough ISK to support it. This can be done by either accepting low-sec(for non-eve players high level) missions/contracts, using your corp, using the market or any other way that CCP might make available to us.
Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.20 20:41:00 - [2] - Quote So, what you're saying is that if I want to play to my full skill capacity, IGÇÖll have to interact with EVE? No you don't have to. it is, and always will be your choice and skill that decides if you can maintain such a play style. If you notice you can't maintain it or you are not making enough profit, then switch over to a cheaper fitting. Even though this will be one of the hardest things to accept as a non-eve player, it is a thing that made the EVE community large and vibrant. And this is one of the few things that should/will not change. Especially since for dust and EVE to merge into each other flawlessly they both need to uphold that mentality. Though you will have an advantage in terms of ISK if you do interact with EVE online, it is not mandatory. So you said something about corporations. Is that like clan and how can I make one/be a part of it? Yes I said something about corporationsGÇª And as of now you are in a standard NPC corp from EVE. In the current status of the beta you cannot make/join corporations so I cannot go into much depth on the dust side of it all. However on the EVE side corps are indeed something like a clan-ish type thing, only larger and more complicated. The major thing that will surprise you is that corps are actively competitive and actually have things like espionage and universe wide wars. I will not go into too much depth Google GÇ£EVE corpsGÇ¥ for that. But donGÇÖt be surprised if you half of your team decides to block you as much as possible to make the enemy team win. WellGÇª Thanks for the info but youGÇÖre still an EVE adjust or die type of person, go yourself with plutonium 238. The thing you should realise is that this is not just a game, itGÇÖs an expansion unique of its kind. It has to fit into and work together with their current system. I can only imagine the challenge that brings to the devs even though I dreamed of games like this since I was a little kid. But that means it will work as an EVE-ish game nothing else. This is where the GÇÿadjust or dieGÇÖ attitude has a valid point even if I donGÇÖt agree with the fact that they are basically telling you to ** off. However, it is a hybrid game and just having EVE players would probably plunge this game into the depth of gaming hell(and bring down EVE with it). So thatGÇÖs where the FPS players come in. Things like weapon handling, grenade tossing(which is horrible at the moment) are things that EVE players will have less experience in. And so the dev will need good constructive feedback from both sides to make the game better than good. But, but, but, but I think the game will be more fun this wayGÇª. [insert bad reasoning] Ok let me just help you out of that dream. This a BETA of CCPGÇÖs game, not your game. Trust the devs that they know what they are doing, and construct your criticism carefully. Go look into your problem before you post. But the most important thing to remember is that this isnGÇÖt your average run and gun shoot em up. Its actually a quite in depth game. And that means you will have to help CCP create the game they have envisioned. Well this 'BETA' game demo sucks, IGÇÖm going back to baking my pink glanced cup-cakes(which are delicious btw).** Inspired/suggested by ~Laheon Well IGÇÖm sad to hear that, because what you are playing is not even close to what the game will become. It is in its closed BETA phase which means that its in its second working testable phase, and as devs have stated on the forums, content will be added in future patches. And things will be removed/added for testing purposes. More on BETA phases & production phases here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta One thing you must realise while playing the game in its current state is that the game is unbalanced, incomplete, modified and buggy. Hence why this is called BETA testing. As a lucky invitee of the closed BETA tester community your role is not to just play the game, but provide supportive feedback so these things can be fixed. Calling this game a demo however is completely wrong, as said before the game is in a test phase and currently incomplete. But you will experience more than just a demo of what it will become. Just have a little patience ;) Pff IGÇÖm not going to do someone else's work. Well no one is making you do so. If you want to play the game in its current state then by all means. But please do accept that it is an unfinished product. If you don't want to provide feedback fine. But do us all a favour and do not complain either
Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.20 20:42:00 - [3] - Quote FAQ Will there be [insert function/item/date here] in dust 514? No clue, and I canGÇÖt confirm anything. I am not a dev. Although IGÇÖd love to work as a forum admin if needed. But for now IGÇÖll just contribute. Are you a fat, lonely nerd? Well IGÇÖm single now soGÇª lonely[x] I am a nerd I love everything math/computer relatedGÇª nerd[x] IGÇÖm not fat at allGÇª fat[ ] 2 out of 3 good enough for you? You said you have experience in games, like which ones? Counter strike 1.6 Played some source, but nothing serious. Battlefield COD 1-4 every one after that is horrible crap. WoW vanilla till cataclysm. EVE online (duh). Unreal tournament 1999 & 2004 Red alert 2 C&C 3 GRID Some MMORPGGÇÖs I donGÇÖt rememberGÇª And more, but tbh I canGÇÖt even remember all of them. And IGÇÖm not diving into my boxes of games. You suck. That wasnGÇÖt a question. Bleep bloop da bas dan pan banana man? Abel pabel die banana label. I will update this if/as questions arise. Bonus:The Butterfly Effect(the sandbox) ~Mr TamiyaCowboy Casuality ~Minmatar Slav 74136 These are some great vids of how EVE mentality works. I recommend you to watch them so you know what you can expect to be a part of in dust514. DISCLAIMER: I have stated this in the post itself. I AM NOT A DEV OR LIKELY TO BECOME ONE. So everything is mostly speculation based on experience with CCPGÇÖs EVE online and promises made. A lot of the content above is dumbed down EVE content and targeted towards players who have no clue what EVE even looks like. The post itself is my personal effort towards helping the BETA players understand better what they are playing so they can give better criticism and create a better game for the future. I will update the main post as player and/or dev posts roll in, as well as updates to make sure my post is up to date. My ultimate goal with this is to confirm with a dev what I have stated above and to adjust them where necessary. And to create a better BETA testers forum. THIS IS NOT A BUG/COMPLAINT THREAD. If you have bugs to report or things to complain about go somewhere else. This thread is to help people only.
Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.20 20:42:00 - [4] - Quote [reserved for future use if needed]
Ayures0 259	Posted - 2012.07.20 20:54:00 - [5] - Quote Mcfons knapperd wrote: At the current moment I consider myself a pretty all round gamer, having no preference for any type of genre and having played a lot of games in the last 16-ish years of my life Stopped reading when I realized OP is 16 years old.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.20 20:58:00 - [6] - Quote I agree.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.20 21:05:00 - [7] - Quote Ayures0 wrote: Mcfons knapperd wrote: At the current moment I consider myself a pretty all round gamer, having no preference for any type of genre and having played a lot of games in the last 16-ish years of my life Stopped reading when I realized OP is 16 years old. Well you shouldn't have, for two reasons. 1. 16 years of gaming is different from 16 years of life. 2. Regardless of age, he's made some good points.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.20 21:10:00 - [8] - Quote Blacknova, you're a rare voice of reason on these forums. +1. Wish I could +1 your whole account. On another note, OP, I wish you had gone a bit more into the "game demo vs game testing" thing. A lot of people on these forums don't realise that it's not a beta in terms of what people are used to, but is in fact a true beta. CCP needs this to test certain features, and make changes as necessary. It is in no shape or form the finished product, and all grievances will be addressed to some degree.
Sojuro Ryo Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 189	Posted - 2012.07.20 21:18:00 - [9] - Quote Someone who actually gets what CCP is doing. Unlike Ayures0 there who will probably end up quitting after a week or two after Dust goes live because he can't understand the game even at its simplest.
Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.20 21:22:00 - [10] - Quote Ayures0 wrote: Mcfons knapperd wrote: At the current moment I consider myself a pretty all round gamer, having no preference for any type of genre and having played a lot of games in the last 16-ish years of my life Stopped reading when I realized OP is 16 years old. The last 16-ish time of my life means i have been playing games since about 16 years ago. I haven't stated my age anywhere.

Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.20 21:24:00 - [11] - Quote Laheon wrote: Blacknova, you're a rare voice of reason on these forums. +1. Wish I could +1 your whole account. On another note, OP, I wish you had gone a bit more into the "game demo vs game testing" thing. A lot of people on these forums don't realise that it's not a beta in terms of what people are used to, but is in fact a true beta. CCP needs this to test certain features, and make changes as necessary. It is in no shape or form the finished product, and all grievances will be addressed to some degree. I am now testing a few bugs i found and in the game itself. I will go deeper into that either tonight or tomorow morning. Good reply, thank you. EDIT: Added that info as to your reply. Again thank you and have fun testing :)
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.07.20 22:27:00 - [12] - Quote Have a well-earned "like". Pretty much mirrored my sentiments.
Tristan Kauls Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 36	Posted - 2012.07.20 22:56:00 - [13] - Quote Nice. to bad the people who need this info probably wont read it
Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.20 23:09:00 - [14] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Have a well-earned "like". Pretty much mirrored my sentiments. Thank you very much, glad you liked it :). Tristan Kauls wrote: Nice. to bad the people who need this info probably wont read it Glad you liked it :). The thought of that did cross my mind though. But im hoping this gets stickied since people tend to read those more often. Just hoping the devs agree with the post /hug devs.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.20 23:10:00 - [15] - Quote My mentality. I wanna try EVERYTHING. In a fully proto'ed out assault suit I can safely say the breach AR needs a look into why its too damned good over oh say the classic assault burst or tactical. Right now working on AV then ill guess I go sniper next week. My contribution is the 101 bullets I put out every build. Currently I should probably make another one for this week as some market items where fixed and need to address them also I been noticing small amounts of 'micro' changes (for example there wherent lights surrounding the bottom floor area of the war room before.)
Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.20 23:18:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: My mentality. I wanna try EVERYTHING. In a fully proto'ed out assault suit I can safely say the breach AR needs a look into why its too damned good over oh say the classic assault burst or tactical. Right now working on AV then ill guess I go sniper next week. My contribution is the 101 bullets I put out every build. Currently I should probably make another one for this week as some market items where fixed and need to address them also I been noticing small amounts of 'micro' changes (for example there wherent lights surrounding the bottom floor area of the war room before.) Love it, plain and simple. Just keep that gun away from my head.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.20 23:24:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: My mentality. I wanna try EVERYTHING. I wanna try the basic versions of everything, but I mostly want to look in-depth on the WEIRD builds.
Mr TamiyaCowboy Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2012.07.20 23:28:00 - [18] - Quote a little Video that explains what eve is about to the None eve-players. The Butterfly Effect ( the sandbox ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU and a +1 for your topic , good reading.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.20 23:37:00 - [19] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: My mentality. I wanna try EVERYTHING. I wanna try the basic versions of everything, but I mostly want to look in-depth on the WEIRD builds. Well there are two ways to think of builds. 1 is weapon centric, what the weapon is will define its role. So a Heavy with a shotgun is not much different from an assault or even a scout with a shotgun. Second is platform centric trying to fomulate a role best suited to the platform your throwing modules. For example If i got a tank what is the best way to make it 'tanky'. Answer Big guns, big defenses and unstoppability. Now onto you wanting to try everything basic need to also understand that the more advanced items are a bit more 'special' in thier own way and the small difference becomes big when applied for all the wrong reasons. for example a maxidamage fit HMG can tear a close ranged dropship apart easily. Thus this falls in your definition of 'weird' fits.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:01:00 - [20] - Quote Why can't this whole forum be full of posts of this caliber?

Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:07:00 - [21] - Quote Mr TamiyaCowboy wrote: a little Video that explains what eve is about to the None eve-players. The Butterfly Effect ( the sandbox ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU and a +1 for your topic , good reading. Glad you liked it. Can't believe I never saw that vid, it gave me shivers. But yeah its a great sumerisation of the game's mentality. Im updating the main post to include it so more people can find it.
Mr TamiyaCowboy Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:13:00 - [22] - Quote yes i think the movie shows how we the eve players envisage dust. not just running around shooting faces, but a complex social interaction that involves war/politics and shooting some face
BAD FURRY Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 247	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:23:00 - [23] - Quote all i have to say a bout this therd is .... i cant know what TAKE IT A WAY THOMAS HILDERN !
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:24:00 - [24] - Quote Great post, fyi the bug report link can be found in the first sticky in the Feedback and Requests section of the forum. Perhaps I should [Request] it be moved to the right section ! Lol
TotalBreakage Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 410	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:25:00 - [25] - Quote Ayures0 wrote: Mcfons knapperd wrote: At the current moment I consider myself a pretty all round gamer, having no preference for any type of genre and having played a lot of games in the last 16-ish years of my life Stopped reading when I realized OP is 16 years old. Because of this guy I will begin a facepalm smiley request thread.
LIEUTENANT JORDAN BetaMax. 7	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:26:00 - [26] - Quote 100% agree.
Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:27:00 - [27] - Quote BAD FURRY wrote: all i have to say a bout this therd is .... i cant know what TAKE IT A WAY THOMAS HILDERN ! First off read the disclaimer. Second if I am wrong about somthing then just comming here to flame is useless. So unless you can provide constructed critesism, your post is useless. Needless Sacermendor wrote: Great post, fyi the bug report link can be found in the first sticky in the Feedback and Requests section of the forum. Perhaps I should [Request] it be moved to the right section ! Lol Damn I feel like an idiot after having made a post about it. Thanks for the info. I must be blind....
BAD FURRY Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 247	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:29:00 - [28] - Quote Mcfons knapperd wrote: BAD FURRY wrote: all i have to say a bout this therd is .... i cant know what TAKE IT A WAY THOMAS HILDERN ! First off read the disclaimer. Second if I am wrong about somthing then just comming here to flame is useless. So unless you can provide constructed critesism, your post is useless. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
BAD FURRY Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 247	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:30:00 - [29] - Quote Mcfons knapperd wrote: Mr TamiyaCowboy wrote: a little Video that explains what eve is about to the None eve-players. The Butterfly Effect ( the sandbox ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU and a +1 for your topic , good reading. Glad you liked it. Can't believe I never saw that vid, it gave me shivers. But yeah its a great sumerisation of the game's mentality. Im updating the main post to include it so more people can find it. BTW this is what dust is removing most of in sov war http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJL1GsyQ2nI
Mcfons knapperd Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2012.07.21 00:38:00 - [30] - Quote BAD FURRY wrote: Mcfons knapperd wrote: Mr TamiyaCowboy wrote: a little Video that explains what eve is about to the None eve-players. The Butterfly Effect ( the sandbox ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU and a +1 for your topic , good reading. Glad you liked it. Can't believe I never saw that vid, it gave me shivers. But yeah its a great sumerisation of the game's mentality. Im updating the main post to include it so more people can find it. BTW this is what dust is removing most of in sov war http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJL1GsyQ2nI Ive seen those speculations and tbh, I trust in CCP to make sure large scale combat won't be useless. CCP has made sure in the past that the game stayed balanced and well polished. Even with a risky project like dust514 I highly doubt they will risk losing one of there biggest attractions.



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