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Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
119
   |
Posted - 2012.07.17 04:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Each weekend I pick something that I want to test and I do that one thing almost to the point of silliness. This weekend's mission was to see if LAVs are viable in an assault role as currently designed or if they're a bust. I've done a good deal of research, a variety of fittings, and most importantly: played the LAV in both maps in both modes.
Understanding the Role
By their nature LAVs are not designed to withstand sustained fire, nor are they designed to put out heavy amounts of damage. A Light Assault Vehicle is designed for exactly two roles: rapid force deployment and mobile fire support. It's amazing to me that more people don't get in LAVs in Skirmish because they are the fastest method of moving a force from the entry spawn to the rear-guard CRUs.
Ambush finds itself in a slightly more awkward position because the main advantage that LAVs have is that they are ultra maneuverable and Ambush does not exactly reward a target that makes itself readily available over and over again. Granted, it's more likely that someone is going to try and take you out with a Swarm Launcher in Ambush which extends your life tenfold (as an expression) because missile collision on the ground is far more likely than it is in the air.
Caveat
It's important to remember and understand that all of this testing was done in the Assault capacity of the LAV. I have not tested logistics yet, and I don't see a reason to do so until Logistics are worth pursuing. The current structure of the game does not allow bonded teams, and until it does, Logistics LAVs (hereafter called Ambulances) are not worth it because they don't actually fulfill a role other than being an elaborate fireworks display.
Impressions in fitting the LAV
Depending on which faction you decide you want to run (Caldari v. Gallente) you will immediately find that there simply isn't much versatility in how to fit your new Death Race car. The PG / CPU setup pretty much restricts you to an Extender / Plates, Repairer / Re-charger or Booster / Hardner, a Weapon, and your choice of a Diagnostic System or nanofibre structure.
One of the things that really struck me in the design of DUST is that the dropsuits are diverse enough and the items are pretty well spread-out that you have a large enough variety of fittings to really specialize in something and feel... well... special. This is not the case with LAVs as you don't really get a lot of flexibility; truly it feels like the designers had a specific layout in mind when they set everything up for the Beta. I don't know if this is a design issue or a beta issue but in either case it definitely affected my first impression on this particular class of vehicular death machine.
Impressions in Piloting a LAV
I'm torn between exalting in the fun of driving these puppies or screaming loud obscenities at how the handling controls need to be heavily altered. On one hand it's very fun to fishtail in the sands of plateau and do 180s while the Gunner tracks targets; however, doing those 180s as a necessity because the control scheme sucks takes the fun away from this.
Solely on the controls, this has been done in a multitude of games before DUST and I'm unsure why we're trying to reinvent the wheel. Left Stick controls the wheels, Right Stick controls the camera angle, R1 accelerates, L1 brakes (hold for reverse while either moving in a negative direction or holding still), Square sounds the Horn (for whatever reason... maybe honking at people that don't get the message to get in/out), R2 controls the activated modules, Triangle to switch positions. (As an aside: why even allow position switching in LAVs? Think about it.)
It feels very clunky driving these Jeeps of Doom around but I'm not sure whether or not the issue is the control design, the vehicle design, physics handling, or terrain design. Too many times I've been moving at minimum speed, hit a minor bump, and went FLYING 12 feet into the air only to tip forward and land nose first in the sand. JeepFrog is fun to play, but not very good when it comes to capturing objectives and winning the game.
Gunning from an LAV
I don't think that this could have been designed any worse. I understand that the idea of EVE / DUST is supposed to be skill > everything. I myself am a capsuleer veteran and can relate to this mentality, but at the same time, there's technology that is in place TODAY which aids in the tracking of positions on a moving object. If I point my reticle at anything while the LAV is moving then my projectile should go THERE. Not to the right or left of that object, but AT THAT OBJECT. At the same time, if I'm pointing at something and the LAV turns suddenly the turret SHOULD NOT. It's called Gyroscopic Stabilization or a Swing-base. I'm pretty sure that something designed in the 1960s and 70s could make an appearance in the very distant future. Tracking computers exist on star ships and an Interceptor isn't that much larger than an LAV (approximately 1.5x its size). Most of an interceptor's space is taken up by engines and propulsion control which must be large for the large amount of thrust generated. A tracking computer should be approximately the size of a desktop computer and I'm fairly sure that we could put one of those on a DoomJeep(TM).
On the subject of tracking computers, anyone who's driven an LAV can tell you that trying to get a passenger (let alone a gunner) is a lesson in frustration. I can see no viable reason that a MANNED VEHICLE couldn't be made to shoot at targets as designated by the pilot at a rate slower than a human gunner could fire. Blaster and missile installations already do it at a rate that seems to be pretty fair, why not have passive control on turrets for LAVs, Tanks, and Dropships? Make it a module and require skills. Viola, now if you're piloting and you can't get a gunner, you're still useful outside of the role of a missile. |
Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 04:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gunning continued
Missiles, Blasters, and Railguns are terrible when it comes to handling their fire. None of these weapons have any handling better because the turret tracking is the problem, not the projectile handling. Currently, I feel very strongly that having a dedicated LAV pilot on your team is not an asset but a very large liability. Not only is the pilot not using his gun to kill enemies, but he's also using a vehicle slot that could be filled by a Tank of Dropship. These turrets need to be fixed in order for the Light Assault Vehicle to be viable in a mobile combat role.
Being shot at in an LAV
Small arms fire including heavy machine guns do basically crap against a non-militia vehicle and LAVs are not excluded from this rule. This makes me very glad because I would be pissed off if my LAV fit died to pistol fire and assault rifle spam. There is a downside to driving an LAV and it is called Tanks. Large Turret fire absolutely destroys an LAV. There is no contest and nor should there be. Forge Guns make it pretty hard to stay in one position at once... your best bet is to continue using your speed and stay moving AS IT SHOULD BE.
Do not take this as a negative comment. Taking damage in an LAV is, in my opinion, perfect.
If I had to come up with a flaw for damage it would probably be that it doesn't feel real. If my LAV gets hit by a RAILGUN round, I'm pretty sure it should move. At present, you can stand behind an LAV and watch it get hit by a solid round moving at near light-speed, and it will sit immobile as though you tried to move a MAC truck with a baseball bat moving at high speed. This is a flaw and should probably be looked into.
Impact
On the subject of impacts - running into things needs to be slightly more forgiving. In the previous post I talked about hitting a minor bump and going 12 feet in the air. I did not tell you about barely touching an incline and having the LAV try to climb up walls. Tapping a wall, corner, or other protruding object can actually cause you to TIP OVER AT LOW SPEEDS. These are not high speed impacts, we're talking about trying to use the horrendous vehicle control system to move through the maze of boxes under the towers in plateau and flipping over because I hit the corner of a box with the side of the LAV on accident.
Crashing into stuff should predictably damage your armor and structure... but shields? I do not believe so. Please reconsider this. I've run nearly half-speed into a tank that I couldn't see until it was too late (airborne) due to the render distance problem and been brought to 0% shields and 43% armor.
Overall Opinion
The LAV feels like it's a ******** Warthog's cousin. It's fun to drive but that's about it. While I'm perfectly content mowing people over by surprise with the LAV, I feel that the vehicle simply is not up to snuff when you compare it to the ability of Dropships to outmaneuver swarm missiles forever with an elliptical orbit or the HAV's ability to stay pretty mobile, repair themselves, and deal out truckloads of damage.
Perhaps the LAV is a specialty vehicle. Maybe I'm doing it wrong... but at the same time it feels like there's a hole in the design somewhere that I've stepped into. When there's incentive to run, on foot, instead of jumping in a fast-mover transport then I think that something is missing. Perhaps a reward could be devised for utilizing the LAV to move from point to point and capture objectives. Could it be given it the option to deploy into a mobile stationary turret? What about a portable supply depot?
These are things that I feel could be highly beneficial. Nothing quite like moving cover that refills your ammunition as a gunner lays down cover fire.
There's my 2 ISK. I look forward to seeing DEV comments and the observations of my fellow mercs. |
Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 12:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Very well done, my good sir. I think I took a few whacks at you with my Forge, as there can't be but 3 people driving Sagas. I'd like to reinforce the gyroscopes idea for not just the LAV, but all vehicles, and the knockback... was run over twice because it shrugged off the sheer kinetic power of my Forge. Controls are also a yes, and maybe you can answer something for me?
Of the two models, Gallente and Caldari, is there ANY benefit to the Gallente variant? It tanks in a way that cannot be repaired on its own, nor can it go as fast due to the armor weighing it down, or at least, that is how I understand it.
The Gallente variant has more weight to it and handles a little better, but it CAN repair itself with the automatic armor repairers. Armor also has a significantly higher observed resist rate and is thus more apt to actually getting hit.
I personally liked the Saga more because shield tanking is better for dancing around in and out of the FoV of an enemy. |
Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 16:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I have to say that I LOVE the LAV controls. At first I didn't like them, but once I put the nanofibers and shield resist/extend on my ride I was rocking it. Took a bit to get used to it, but I love dodging swarms by 180ing around walls and hearing them slam into my new barricade. I learned that the best course of action when 180ing is to simply swing the stick and keep going in whatever direction your momentum is carrying you until you can reorient yourself.
Additionally, the break is a miracle worker once you understand it.
The challenge of any control schema is to be intuitive. When you play any game whose focus is on vehicular control you NEVER see a control scheme like the one we have now... and for good reason: it makes advanced handling incredibly difficult. Take for example an E-Brake tap to intentionally spin the rear end of the vehicle around or go into a drift: currently this maneuver is all but impossible because the setup of the throttle / steering linked controls makes it unmanageable to point your wheels in a contra-direction while directing the throttle.
For reference: Basic E-Brake Left / Right hand swing maneuver with Drift Conversion
With momentum in a forward direction follow the given steps.
- Turn the front wheels of the vehicle in the opposite direction you want the rear end to pivot (Possible
- Pull your E-Brake (not possible)
- With brake pulled, quickly turn front wheels full opposite of original turn. (Impossible due to forward acceleration as you steer with current controls)
- Release E-Brake
- Apply gas quickly for maximum pivot. Tap to ensure you do not roll over. Continue tapping to drift.
That is why segregated steering, acceleration, and breaking, are necessary for proper vehicular control. |
Norbar Recturus
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 12:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
No, the most rotation you can get to view your surroundings is about 60 degrees in either direction. Even when you're driving in reverse you can' exactly see where you're going. |
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