DUST Search - Swarm Launchers

Buzzwords wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Forge Gun can deal more direct-shot damage than a tank projectile.

Swarm Launchers are NOWHERE NEAR the firepower of Forge Guns, and there are plenty of situations where the FG has an advantage just from the sheer fact that the target is in a place you CAN'T HIT with a Swarm, but CAN hit with FG projectiles.

And at short- to mid-range, FGs are good anti-infantry with the ability to one-shot almost everything. Swarms, not so much. They can provide good anti-infantry support, with explosions distracting enemies, but they're FAR less effective at it than Forge Guns.

this is just factually incorrect.

a militia swarm launcher deals 350 dmg per missile and fires 4 missiles per shot. 1,400 damage per shot. oh and it locks onto stuff. cool beans right?

a standard forge gun (as there is no militia tier to compare it against) deals 1,200 damage per shot.

and as for tank projectiles, i can only assume you mean to compare against railguns? even railguns shoot faster, are laser beam accurate, can be aimed, have infinite ammo, and can fire more shots before an overheat than a forge gun can before reload. not to mention that they can be strapped onto a marauder for a 50% damage bonus, making them THEN do DRAMATICALLY more damage than a forge gun while having all those other nice traits.

and as for being used against infantry, the notion is laughable. the basic model deals 210 damage as splash.. a MILITIA assault suit has 300 health with NO skills and NO modules. if it one shots you, shake the hand of the man who wields it, because he hit you with it directly. a gun that cannot be aimed, needs a 3.5 second charge time, cuts his movement speed in half, and even makes his hipfire crosshairs rattle around while he builds or holds that charge. oh and he doesn't even get a UI indication to let him know when it's charged. he has to just guess, or get his timing DOWN.

though i will admit that there are situations in thick structure where the swarm launchers scattered launch makes it very difficult to connect with more than half it's missiles. but if you can't hit something at ALL, that's operator error, not the launcher.

anyone who thinks a forge gun is overpowered, i officially DARE you to actually USE it.

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Sephoran Griffith Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 96	Posted - 2012.07.17 02:48:00 - [1] - Quote Love them, hate heavy suits. Can another suit hold them? Would normally log in and try but you know...it's Monday. Also, if they are heavy only, what can a smaller suit use for AV other than grenades? Thanks
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.07.17 02:52:00 - [2] - Quote Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them.
Sephoran Griffith Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 96	Posted - 2012.07.17 03:00:00 - [3] - Quote Longshot Ravenwood wrote: Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them. Thanks. That's what I was hoping to hear. Had not really bothered with them yet and by the time I decided to think about it the weekend was over.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.07.17 05:18:00 - [4] - Quote Longshot Ravenwood wrote: Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them. Hopefully they'll change that to heavy. There is no way a light weapon should do that much damage.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.07.17 05:24:00 - [5] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Longshot Ravenwood wrote: Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them. Hopefully they'll change that to heavy. There is no way a light weapon should do that much damage. They're meant to be a light suit AV alternative. They'll likely have they're lock on range reduced. Plus they'll have equipment meant to interfere with lock-on and break locks.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.07.17 07:35:00 - [6] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Longshot Ravenwood wrote: Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them. Hopefully they'll change that to heavy. There is no way a light weapon should do that much damage. Excuse me?? Stinger missile tube plus missile is just a few pounds and it will kill a flying tank helicopter gunship.
Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.07.17 07:37:00 - [7] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Longshot Ravenwood wrote: Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them. Hopefully they'll change that to heavy. There is no way a light weapon should do that much damage. Why would anyone pick the swarm launcher over the forge gun then?
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.07.17 07:45:00 - [8] - Quote why does anybody pick the forge gun now? they don't... but the answer is to fix the forge gun and the heavy, not add a heavy slot restriction to the swarm launcher. swarm launcher is pretty cool right where it's at.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2012.07.17 07:58:00 - [9] - Quote Pezz IsDank wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Longshot Ravenwood wrote: Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them. Hopefully they'll change that to heavy. There is no way a light weapon should do that much damage. Why would anyone pick the swarm launcher over the forge gun then? Versatility!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 09:59:00 - [10] - Quote Forge Gun can deal more direct-shot damage than a tank projectile. Swarm Launchers are NOWHERE NEAR the firepower of Forge Guns, and there are plenty of situations where the FG has an advantage just from the sheer fact that the target is in a place you CAN'T HIT with a Swarm, but CAN hit with FG projectiles. And at short- to mid-range, FGs are good anti-infantry with the ability to one-shot almost everything. Swarms, not so much. They can provide good anti-infantry support, with explosions distracting enemies, but they're FAR less effective at it than Forge Guns.

Grit Breather BetaMax. 660	Posted - 2012.07.17 10:02:00 - [11] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Longshot Ravenwood wrote: Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them. Hopefully they'll change that to heavy. There is no way a light weapon should do that much damage. Excuse me?? Stinger missile tube plus missile is just a few pounds and it will kill a flying tank helicopter gunship. Yes, a single tube with a single missile is a light weapon. Now try howding 4-6 loaded tubes with a more complex guidance system on your shoulder. I dare you...
Grit Breather BetaMax. 660	Posted - 2012.07.17 10:04:00 - [12] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: why does anybody pick the forge gun now? they don't... but the answer is to fix the forge gun and the heavy, not add a heavy slot restriction to the swarm launcher. swarm launcher is pretty cool right where it's at. Oh but they do. During the last weekend I tought myself to be a good dropship pilot. At times I was constantly dodging the blue ripples flying around me from the Forge Guns on the ground. So they are used and even quite a lot.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.07.17 11:47:00 - [13] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Forge Gun can deal more direct-shot damage than a tank projectile. Swarm Launchers are NOWHERE NEAR the firepower of Forge Guns, and there are plenty of situations where the FG has an advantage just from the sheer fact that the target is in a place you CAN'T HIT with a Swarm, but CAN hit with FG projectiles. And at short- to mid-range, FGs are good anti-infantry with the ability to one-shot almost everything. Swarms, not so much. They can provide good anti-infantry support, with explosions distracting enemies, but they're FAR less effective at it than Forge Guns. this is just factually incorrect. a militia swarm launcher deals 350 dmg per missile and fires 4 missiles per shot. 1,400 damage per shot. oh and it locks onto stuff. cool beans right? a standard forge gun (as there is no militia tier to compare it against) deals 1,200 damage per shot. and as for tank projectiles, i can only assume you mean to compare against railguns? even railguns shoot faster, are laser beam accurate, can be aimed, have infinite ammo, and can fire more shots before an overheat than a forge gun can before reload. not to mention that they can be strapped onto a marauder for a 50% damage bonus, making them THEN do DRAMATICALLY more damage than a forge gun while having all those other nice traits. and as for being used against infantry, the notion is laughable. the basic model deals 210 damage as splash.. a MILITIA assault suit has 300 health with NO skills and NO modules. if it one shots you, shake the hand of the man who wields it, because he hit you with it directly. a gun that cannot be aimed, needs a 3.5 second charge time, cuts his movement speed in half, and even makes his hipfire crosshairs rattle around while he builds or holds that charge. oh and he doesn't even get a UI indication to let him know when it's charged. he has to just guess, or get his timing DOWN. though i will admit that there are situations in thick structure where the swarm launchers scattered launch makes it very difficult to connect with more than half it's missiles. but if you can't hit something at ALL, that's operator error, not the launcher. anyone who thinks a forge gun is overpowered, i officially DARE you to actually USE it.
Kitt 514 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 94	Posted - 2012.07.17 12:00:00 - [14] - Quote I've been using the forge gun almost exclusively this update, and its a beast. LAV's in 1 shot Dropships in 2 ****** tanks in 3-ish Good tanks in 8 or so. Using it as an anti-infantry weapon is quite difficult though. It really comes into its own however when its used against groups and your chances of hitting one are increased. Once you get the timing down, the assault forge gun can wreck infantry at decently long range, especially if you have a height advantage. Another tactic if its mid-to-close is just aim at the ground near them with your first shot, and quickly switch to smg/scrambler to finish them off. The forge gun has a lot of downsides, but when you get good at it, man its a beast.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.07.17 19:55:00 - [15] - Quote Pezz IsDank wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Longshot Ravenwood wrote: Swarm Launchers are Light weapons. Any suit can use them. Hopefully they'll change that to heavy. There is no way a light weapon should do that much damage. Why would anyone pick the swarm launcher over the forge gun then? Because the SL is better for shooting at Dropships imho.
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:10:00 - [16] - Quote SL is fine as a weapon anyone can use especially with all the armor that is rolling around. I am almost using it exclusively with my assault type A series with a dope SMG and nanohive, just read somewhere that proto assault dropsuit gets another equip slot, if so going for that with RE in the extra slot!
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:00:00 - [17] - Quote The 3 weapons I use the most are the mass driver, swarm launcher & forge gun. I specifically use the forge gun when I'm expecting to need to help provide anti-infantry support in addition to antivehicle support. If you're using a charged variant it simply has a ridiculous amount of stopping power. I may stop using it as much once they fix the mass driver's hit detection issues, but for right now it's a good freaking time. Also, dropships with afterburners can outrun swarms & direct them into objects -- you can't outrun a forge gun.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:10:00 - [18] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Forge Gun can deal more direct-shot damage than a tank projectile. Swarm Launchers are NOWHERE NEAR the firepower of Forge Guns, and there are plenty of situations where the FG has an advantage just from the sheer fact that the target is in a place you CAN'T HIT with a Swarm, but CAN hit with FG projectiles. And at short- to mid-range, FGs are good anti-infantry with the ability to one-shot almost everything. Swarms, not so much. They can provide good anti-infantry support, with explosions distracting enemies, but they're FAR less effective at it than Forge Guns. this is just factually incorrect. a militia swarm launcher deals 350 dmg per missile and fires 4 missiles per shot. 1,400 damage per shot. oh and it locks onto stuff. cool beans right? a standard forge gun (as there is no militia tier to compare it against) deals 1,200 damage per shot. and as for tank projectiles, i can only assume you mean to compare against railguns? even railguns shoot faster, are laser beam accurate, can be aimed, have infinite ammo, and can fire more shots before an overheat than a forge gun can before reload. not to mention that they can be strapped onto a marauder for a 50% damage bonus, making them THEN do DRAMATICALLY more damage than a forge gun while having all those other nice traits. and as for being used against infantry, the notion is laughable. the basic model deals 210 damage as splash.. a MILITIA assault suit has 300 health with NO skills and NO modules. if it one shots you, shake the hand of the man who wields it, because he hit you with it directly. a gun that cannot be aimed, needs a 3.5 second charge time, cuts his movement speed in half, and even makes his hipfire crosshairs rattle around while he builds or holds that charge. oh and he doesn't even get a UI indication to let him know when it's charged. he has to just guess, or get his timing DOWN. though i will admit that there are situations in thick structure where the swarm launchers scattered launch makes it very difficult to connect with more than half it's missiles. but if you can't hit something at ALL, that's operator error, not the launcher. anyone who thinks a forge gun is overpowered, i officially DARE you to actually USE it. When did I say the Forge Gun is OP? I'm pretty sure I didn't, because I don't think it is. Sorry if you got that impression from me saying that the Swarm Launcher isn't OP. Check the stats all the way up the tiers, not just at the baseline. Forge Guns gain a LOT more power than Swarms. And I said they CAN one-shot any infantry, not that it's easy to do so. Swarms can't even one-shot a Militia Scout. If you end up in close quarters (but outside knife range) with enemy infantry, the Swarm Launcher quite simply WILL NOT hit the target, and if by some miracle they manage to place themselves into the path of one of your missiles, in the current build, the damage dealt to infantry is so massively reduced that it won't matter. Your Forge Gun splash, which is EASY to land, has a good chance of one-shotting a Militia Scout, even with and armour mod. If I get so impossibly lucky that I have a direct hit AND catch the target in a second missile's splash, there's still literally NO chance of a kill unless the target has already taken damage. If you want to talk about mid-range, Swarms get some of their accuracy back, but not enough to make up for the projectile speed, which results in them still being completely useless in anything but a surprise attack, and even then they're only a distraction rather than an actual method of dealing damage to a Dropsuit. And my comment about there being times where it's easier to hit a vehicle with a Forge Gun than Swarms? You never did address that properly. If there's a small gap you need to try and fire through, whether that's because you're in cover or because there's something that's not quite in the way (like trying to shoot a tank near C while you're back behind the pipes), the Forge Gun will fire where you aim it, and deal damage. Swarm missiles will scatter, then hit the walls instead of the target, and unless you're either good or lucky, you'll be cutting your attacks in half. Another advantage the Forge Gun has is the ability to stay in cover while charging. It's possible to time things so you step out with the Forge Gun, and the first time your target gets to see you is a half-second before you fire. Swarm Launchers can't do that. They have to get line of sight before they can even start the lock-on process, then you have a delay - DURING WHICH THE TARGET OFTEN KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE - before you can fire.


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