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Kb/m and controller icon

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Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:01:00 - [1] - Quote i dont realy care much about the argument but when Mouse support is added in the next build could the endgame screen that shows k/d ratio and ranking include an icon for people using kb/m so we can see if there is a major diffrence between them and help balance them accordingly, i would like to know if kb/m realy do have a better game chance than me. so if the dev would include what control method a player was using in the ranking so we can see how well balanced they are i think that be helpful. i am a long time console player i own every playstation ever made and played their games. i never consider switching consoles or changing controllers. i have played them loyaly and until a few moments ago i didnt even think about the diffrence in kb/m vs controllers. i would like to see hard facts on the ranking list about whose using what and how much better they are or are not. i dont want to have to change to a entirely diffrent control method simple to remain competitive and i hope ccp considers adding that to the ranks so they can get a better feel for balancing the two systems. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------edit----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- can a the gm move this to feedback and request i forgot i was still in general disucsion
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:14:00 - [2] - Quote Better idea. DON'T show the players who's using what (because people on both sides WILL find excuses to complain because of their opponent's control choice), but track it behind the scenes and tweak settings and things so the results are (mostly) balanced.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:18:00 - [3] - Quote i would personlly like to know though, also i would like to know whether my reaction time is slow or if the system is unbalanced so i can correct my self or post if i keep getting mowed down by kb/m players i like to know that it wasnt my own fault it was the imbalance between the systems
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:20:00 - [4] - Quote Best idea. Store all of the data on the back-end. Keep track of both the weapons being used for kills & the controller setup used with them. Track kills individually for each weapon with each format. Leak the information to one alliance so that they can get an edge over the competition. Enjoy the tears once the story breaks wide open.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:23:00 - [5] - Quote can we have an idea with less standard eve backstabbing and double dealing?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:24:00 - [6] - Quote If it's that obviously unbalanced in favour of KB+M, it WILL be obvious, and it WILL be talked about. If they tell everyone, there will be unnecesary abuse thrown around because of people's choice of control style, and it will probably carry over even if the schemes get rebalanced fairly. If one or the other is horribly OP and players can see it, there will need to be an OVER-nerf to shut the complaints down, and that's a bad idea, not a good one.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:27:00 - [7] - Quote i pretty sure they could ignore the ranting for over nerf, since they wont realy need are feedback becasue they would have their nice little spreadsheet showing whose doing more killing, and they can share that knowledge with us so i can know whether its me or imbalance
Armatsu Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:29:00 - [8] - Quote A competent KB/M player will always beat a competent Controller player. Thats just the way it is. This was already shown in the game Shadowrun. If you have any doubts. Watch videos of professional gamers who use KB/M compared to professionals who use controllers. The KB/M players have much greater precision and play on a much higher sensitivity. They are constantly checking every possible direction and instantly destroy any enemy that pops up barely missing a shot.
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:32:00 - [9] - Quote Armatsu wrote: A competent KB/M player will always beat a competent Controller player. Thats just the way it is. This was already shown in the game Shadowrun. If you have any doubts. Watch videos of professional gamers who use KB/M compared to professionals who use controllers. The KB/M players have much greater precision and play on a much higher sensitivity. They are constantly checking every possible direction and instantly destroy any enemy that pops up barely missing a shot. Which proves that Shadowrun's integration was horribly broken. So I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the faster you move your camera angles, the worse your sway is when you begin shooting. If you're "quickly" moving around with a mouse, I can only imagine the kind of sway you might experience.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.16 03:42:00 - [10] - Quote if if that bad couldnt they just force kb/m players to turn slow and make their controls a bit sluggish?

Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.16 15:52:00 - [11] - Quote Turning speed is already capped by suit type, so "fast mouse" turning will not happen. For you brain dead people, that means a heavy/assault/scout will turn at exactly the same speed with a mouse as it will with a controller even if you break the laws of physics and move your mouse at the speed of light. Unless you are suggesting that a mouse have that cap lowered even further, in which case you really need to quit smoking so much weed.
Lord Pheal 3	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:16:00 - [12] - Quote Who the fck can't just plug in a kb and mouse intead of crying? Get real kids. You're going to cry they're too expensive next? What a joke this community...
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.16 18:16:00 - [13] - Quote Lord Pheal wrote: Who the fck can't just plug in a kb and mouse intead of crying? Get real kids. You're going to cry they're too expensive next? What a joke this community... how ironic that your hear crying like the kids your saying are jokes.... back to topic. the issue you have for labeling people input is its only going to cause more bad feeling between an already troubled community. it is useful info for us on a personal level sure, id be right there with you on wanting to know. but its just not important enough for us to know to cause the trouble. as long as ccp are keeping a close eye on it, as its items like this that seem harmless enough but then soon become game breakers. and tbh from what we know of ccp they have to be one of the most careful devs out there.
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.16 18:18:00 - [14] - Quote Vetis Cato wrote: and tbh from what we know of ccp they have to be one of the most careful devs out there. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wait, let me take a deep breath........ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.16 18:20:00 - [15] - Quote Stabber McShank wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: and tbh from what we know of ccp they have to be one of the most careful devs out there. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wait, let me take a deep breath........ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! explain. how many devs actually do proper beta testing? how many devs hirer a frecking economics professor to balance its markets. how many devs do you know wont launch straight into things to make a quick buck only to have to spend months rectifing it.
Azura dark 31	Posted - 2012.07.16 18:28:00 - [16] - Quote Stabber McShank wrote: Turning speed is already capped by suit type, so "fast mouse" turning will not happen. For you brain dead people, that means a heavy/assault/scout will turn at exactly the same speed with a mouse as it will with a controller even if you break the laws of physics and move your mouse at the speed of light. Unless you are suggesting that a mouse have that cap lowered even further, in which case you really need to quit smoking so much weed. dont some gaming mice come with adjustable sensitivity in the mouse itself, making having turn speed on gear useless ? (never bought a gaming mouse)
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.16 19:40:00 - [17] - Quote Azura dark wrote: Stabber McShank wrote: Turning speed is already capped by suit type, so "fast mouse" turning will not happen. For you brain dead people, that means a heavy/assault/scout will turn at exactly the same speed with a mouse as it will with a controller even if you break the laws of physics and move your mouse at the speed of light. Unless you are suggesting that a mouse have that cap lowered even further, in which case you really need to quit smoking so much weed. dont some gaming mice come with adjustable sensitivity in the mouse itself, making having turn speed on gear useless ? (never bought a gaming mouse) That will allow you to adjust the amount you have to move the mouse, and the level of precision you can get, but it would be incapable of breaking a hardcapped turn-speed limit. Softcaps like in BF3, where different vehicles and turrets have different sensitivity ADJUSTMENTS behind the scenes can be circumvented this way. A hardcap cannot. As to the OP's request, absolutely not. Because 99% of the time, that's the only way you'd have a clue in the first place. The only thing it would result in is endless whinging when a bad player gets smoked by a mouse, because clearly it's because he was using good controls, it had nothing to do with the victim just sucking at the game. In actual practice, use of a mouse doesn't really become a tie-breaker unless you actually have a tie: absolutely everything else equal, including each player's skill with their chosen control method. Then, and only then, does it generally make a noticeable difference.
Armatsu Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:01:00 - [18] - Quote Even with turning speed capped. It is significantly easier to pace opponents with a mouse and to keep a consistent aim. Not saying everyone is good at it but i have played FPS's on both console and PC and there is almost always better accuracy on a PC game than on a console. Not whining just telling it how it is. I'll probably be playing with a controller the entire time because well its a PS3 and i don't feel like disconnecting my blackwidow and naga every time i switch between PC and PS3 gaming.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:29:00 - [19] - Quote mouse isnt better. it shouldnt be tie-breaker if there is a tie that would mean if it was all ready not in favor of controller then it wouldnt just be an uphill climb it be a cliff. all i want is a balanced between two players so if they perfect tie does happen, the person with a diffrent control method doesnt have an unfair advantage. if there is a tie it should be balanced by ingame luck, not what control method you use. it needs to be balanced between the them so they are equal then everyone can feel comfortable using there preference and it wont make kb/m the only competieve way to play.
JAG ONE 97	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:36:00 - [20] - Quote And how is CCP going to tell the difference between a controller and KB/M adapter like Eagle Eye? How do we know the superman players aren't using KB/M already? you don't.. so quite crying about it.

Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.16 22:16:00 - [21] - Quote when they plug it in the kb/m it would register when the kb/m is being used. and crying about what?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 22:19:00 - [22] - Quote JAG ONE wrote: And how is CCP going to tell the difference between a controller and KB/M adapter like Eagle Eye? How do we know the superman players aren't using KB/M already? you don't.. so quite crying about it. Avenger 245 wrote: when they plug it in the kb/m it would register when the kb/m is being used. and crying about what? That doesn't address the question. When USB KB+M are used, obviously, it's detected. When KBM control adaptor is used instead, the system registers a normal controller.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.16 22:24:00 - [23] - Quote ... give me a minute... they can do that? so i guess there isnt much point in adding limits to adding a cap to gun aiming speed and turning speed if it could bypass. i hate computers.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.17 15:59:00 - [24] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: ... give me a minute... they can do that? so i guess there isnt much point in adding limits to adding a cap to gun aiming speed and turning speed if it could bypass. i hate computers. Again, you can't bypass a hardcap on the turnspeeds, as are in place on Dust. Even the EagleEye and other mouse adapters / substitutes cannot bypass the hardcap, as it has nothing to do with sensitivity settings or anything else, it's a hard limit to the rate at which the aimpoint can be moved, full-stop. Only soft-caps, like in BF3, can be bypassed via sensitivity settings. They work by forcing you to go into a menu to adjust sensitivity, but those using mice with on-device sensitivity/DPI toggles bypass this, because the mouse is now sending a signal saying the MOUSE is moving faster or slower (effectively), thus compensating for the game's translation of movement from the mouse signals to the in-game movement. A hardcap doesn't care about this, sensitivity in the game does, but no matter how high you crank the sensitivity, there's still the SAME hard cap limiting the highest rate of change the game will allow.
twoccer Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2012.07.17 16:24:00 - [25] - Quote JAG ONE wrote: And how is CCP going to tell the difference between a controller and KB/M adapter like Eagle Eye? How do we know the superman players aren't using KB/M already? you don't.. so quite crying about it. they probably are using them already. I know some forum l33ts here who used to use TuRbO pads http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhMqvc-HLI&feature=related look at the comments on the vid but when i chalenged TuRbOpAD k1d 22..he only wanted to see how to re map controller buttons,,, lol
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:32:00 - [26] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: When USB KB+M are used, obviously, it's detected. When KBM control adaptor is used instead, the system registers a normal controller. Correct. GIMX spoofs the Bluetooth address of a valid sixaxis and sends mouse/keyboard translations along that path. The PS3 itself sees the exact same Dualshock3 controller that it always sees even though the player is really using a Mouse/Keyboard. Eagle Eye uses the hardware connect as a PS3 controller and sends sixaxis commands to the PS3. The PS3 itself doesn't even know you have a Mouse + Keyboard attached. So whether you like it or not, there are probably already K+M players in Dust right now (and in BF3, MAG, CoD, Killzone 3, etc). Native support just means there is a level playing field instead of only those with cash to burn (eagle eye) or highly technical people (GIMX).
Nashor Arkkenclaid Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.07.18 03:14:00 - [27] - Quote Stabber McShank wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: When USB KB+M are used, obviously, it's detected. When KBM control adaptor is used instead, the system registers a normal controller. Correct. GIMX spoofs the Bluetooth address of a valid sixaxis and sends mouse/keyboard translations along that path. The PS3 itself sees the exact same Dualshock3 controller that it always sees even though the player is really using a Mouse/Keyboard. Eagle Eye uses the hardware connect as a PS3 controller and sends sixaxis commands to the PS3. The PS3 itself doesn't even know you have a Mouse + Keyboard attached. So whether you like it or not, there are probably already K+M players in Dust right now (and in BF3, MAG, CoD, Killzone 3, etc). Native support just means there is a level playing field instead of only those with cash to burn (eagle eye) or highly technical people (GIMX). Exactly what I've spent quite a bit of time saying in the KB/M thread. We can't stop it, Sony won't stop it, (Sony allows third-party controllers and has no policy against unauthorized devices) CCP probably wouldn't stop it (It's too transparent and would cause more problems for skilled legitimate DS3 users then the KB/M users). Ergo, there's no point in arguing over it, because there's a pretty likely chance nothing will be done about it. Not to mention that Alliances that successfully capitalize on these alternatives (if KB/M is scrapped or overnerfed) will create a rather large advantage for that particular alliance, which could in turn hurt the Alliance system and balance of power in EVE, CCP might very well be making it standard so this doesn't become a critical issue when null-sec play starts up. That situation that Longshot Ravenswood described on the first page is more likely to become a possibility if only these alternatives existed. (Eg, no native KB/M) (The "alliance advantage and tears" part is what I am talking about.) And I'm pretty sure that said situation would be a godsend for Goonswarm.
Nashor Arkkenclaid Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.07.18 03:15:00 - [28] - Quote Double post.
Ventis Gant Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.07.18 05:05:00 - [29] - Quote Beyond balancing issues...each successive console has become more and more like a specialized PC that is geared for games. But there are more and more options that aren't about games. I can watch Netflix, listen to music, browse the web, etc. from my PS3. I think that this trend is going to continue. Consoles will become little more than PCs with highly proprietary operating systems and software. I think this means that KB/M will become standard equipment for consoles. Most games may still be geared to be played with a controller, but you will still have a KB/M plugged in so you can browse the web, chat with your friends, and play those game types that work better with KB/M. Most people seem to agree that KB/M is superior for FPS games, and few would argue that it is superior for RTS games. There are probably a few other genres that are just easier to control with KB/M. So...you can get a USB KB/M for, what around $20 or $30. If it is the superior control method for the type of game you like to play, then plug one in and use it. When you go back to a game that is better for the controller, pick it back up. Instead of thinking of the KB/M as "alien" to consoles, just think of it as the same thing as getting a wheel and pedals because you love driving games, or a joystick style setup because you enjoy flight sim games. If you love FPS games, get a specialized controller for those games...the KB/M.


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