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Zondervin Tau
4
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Posted - 2012.07.13 21:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok, Hear me out. I know lots of people want none of this but I believe I have a workable solution.
On spawn you have1,2,3 sec of total immunity (CCP can figure out the length of time). If you do ANYTHING you lose your immunity. What that time is needed for is to check your screen and mini map to get your situational awareness to an effective level. Its that simple.
If I spawn with some form of immunity and there is a camper behind me I will have time to decide to engage or run. Now even with this system if there is a camper I am at a disadvantage. This would provide me the opportunity to add value to my team. Opposed to just being killed without the possibility of fighting back/surviving.
Spawn killing has a cumulative negative effect for the team being killed. This leads to getting red lined and a very frustrating time playing DUST. Frustration=not fun=play something else.
For the record: I do believe spawn killing is a legitimate tactic. But, this type on encounter (in the context of a game) needs to be balanced/skewed in a way that tries to negate the cumulative negative effect for the team being killed.
Questions/Comments?
Zon |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.07.13 21:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Spawn invisibility would also be nice. |
Bzeer
MG GROUP
41
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Posted - 2012.07.13 21:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm not against this in the way it is stated. A similar function is in place in eve. I think the terrian philosophy could be better managed Being able to kill box the attacking team and he defending team to such a degree as preventing breakout tactics late in the game isn't sporting when your the winning side, and it's downright stupid on th defending side. What field commander would choose either of those particular areas as their last resort spawn. the earlier maps had last resort areas that we're much more protected from continuous barrage. Showing that terrian design is just as important to game balance as Modual effects. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2012.07.13 23:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
I personally would like to see the invisibility, now as for my reasons they are quite simple. Currently the enemies crosshairs turn red before you even appear resulting in your death before you fully spawn. Second your not invulnerable just out of sight, so you can still be killed by random grenades or gunfire. Third it need only last long enough for the game client to catch up ti the server no more than about 5-7 seconds.
Edit Any movement or action breaks the cloak and now your exposed and vulnerable. To be perfectly clear you can't shoot change weapons or throw grenades or RE and if you try bam your visible. Oh also you can't even aim down the sights. |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.07.14 00:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
NO. |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.07.14 00:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
if your getting spawn raped it is because you have LOST the match. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2012.07.14 00:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
zekina zek wrote:if your getting spawn raped it is because you have LOST the match. Why is that because you should not be able to counter that tactic. CCP will decide based on the merits of our arguments or by their whims as they are the gods of the game. If they like our ideas they might use them if not they won't. If you would like to provide a counter argument as opposed to pounding your chest like some angry ape I would like to see it. As it is you sound like "don't take this away its how I like to win so just no". Besides CCP already use a cloaking mechanic like this in EVE to help prevent lag between the server and the client causing a player to materialize dead after warping into a system. Now I will reiterate the cloak will only last long enough for the client to catch up to the server and will be instantly broken by any action, push any button move, turn anything hell push start or go to the overview bam there you are for everyone to kill. |
EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.07.14 01:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
When Orbital bombardment becomes possible.....trust me bro . I will not be getting spawn camped.You dig my meaning? Ill spell this out for anyone who might not...thats gonna mean a whole lot of spawn campers dead in a very short period of time.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
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Posted - 2012.07.14 01:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spawning into objectives? No, its fine as is.
Uplinks? No, fine as is.
Clone Reserve units? I'm more a fan of spawning INSIDE the CRU, and then being able to pick when and where you pop out. I mean the things have doors on them ffs, set it where you spawn, and then get to pick where you jump out of it. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2012.07.14 01:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
EVICER wrote:When Orbital bombardment becomes possible.....trust me bro . I will not be getting spawn camped.You dig my meaning? Ill spell this out for anyone who might not...thats gonna mean a whole lot of spawn campers dead in a very short period of time.
This is true but those won't always be available we legitimate counters in all situations and locations. Perhaps once a player is placing all the spawn point and structures that will be enough. I did see an interrating idea on a different thread.
Basically it was to serious physical barrier and limited angles to camp the reserve spawn from. A shield was also suggested, players could pass through but no shots could get in or out. Now to me the shield idea is little OP you could just call a bunch of tanks and crap without any risk involved. |
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Greiskind
Anonymous Killers Mercenary Corporation
28
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Posted - 2012.07.14 04:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Instead of "invulnerability" (kind of breaks the immersion bit - I didn't see a superman shield in the market) how about allowing multiple drop zones, or a backup to the primary when it gets overrun. Any commander worth his rank would realize how wasteful it is to keep dropping troops at a site where they're getting chewed up without hitting back. If we could spawn on the MCC, as a Merc I'd go hunting for the commander and launch HIM to the spawn site.
Multiple (minimum two, maybe purchase a third for big ISK?) drop zones force both teams to strategize about a spawn-camp situation. Defender has to decide which drop zone is the more serious threat, while the attacker can use the alt drop zone to flank spawn campers or push around campers to an objective. Two drop zones require more communication between the team to coordinate offense and defense - calling out DZs that are getting overrun to switch to the alt or flash traffic back to your defenders that the attackers aren't dropping into the DZ you're camped at so they can expect a push from the other DZ.
Having a spawn point go "cold" when the other team is inside it would also make for some interesting tactics. Entering a spawn point "chills" it, and causes a new spawn point to generate some distance away?
Spawn camping remains a "legitimate tactic", but now comes with some risk of getting flanked or bypassed for an upset. If a team isn't smart enough to use the alt DZ and flank or stack and overload a spawn camping situation, then they deserve to drop into the vegomatic and lose miserably. The team that communicates and works together the best wins, instead of merely the team that brought a bunch of tanks and parked them outside the spawn point. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.07.14 04:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Greiskind wrote:Instead of "invulnerability" (kind of breaks the immersion bit - I didn't see a superman shield in the market) how about allowing multiple drop zones, or a backup to the primary when it gets overrun. Any commander worth his rank would realize how wasteful it is to keep dropping troops at a site where they're getting chewed up without hitting back. If we could spawn on the MCC, as a Merc I'd go hunting for the commander and launch HIM to the spawn site.
Multiple (minimum two, maybe purchase a third for big ISK?) drop zones force both teams to strategize about a spawn-camp situation. Defender has to decide which drop zone is the more serious threat, while the attacker can use the alt drop zone to flank spawn campers or push around campers to an objective. Two drop zones require more communication between the team to coordinate offense and defense - calling out DZs that are getting overrun to switch to the alt or flash traffic back to your defenders that the attackers aren't dropping into the DZ you're camped at so they can expect a push from the other DZ.
Having a spawn point go "cold" when the other team is inside it would also make for some interesting tactics. Entering a spawn point "chills" it, and causes a new spawn point to generate some distance away?
Spawn camping remains a "legitimate tactic", but now comes with some risk of getting flanked or bypassed for an upset. If a team isn't smart enough to use the alt DZ and flank or stack and overload a spawn camping situation, then they deserve to drop into the vegomatic and lose miserably. The team that communicates and works together the best wins, instead of merely the team that brought a bunch of tanks and parked them outside the spawn point.
I love this idea. I think you should post this in more threads, or make your own thread on the subject so this idea can get more attention. |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
32
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Posted - 2012.07.14 05:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Spawning into objectives? No, its fine as is.
pffftahaha what, afraid to actually defend an objective instead of just camping a single point with remote explosives? not enough sp in it for you?
Pokey Dravon wrote:Uplinks? No, fine as is.
not sure when uplinks were called into question. i guess they could stand to be a little less obvious?
Pokey Dravon wrote:Clone Reserve units? I'm more a fan of spawning INSIDE the CRU, and then being able to pick when and where you pop out. I mean the things have doors on them ffs, set it where you spawn, and then get to pick where you jump out of it.
what would this even accomplish? |
EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.07.17 00:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bones1182 wrote:EVICER wrote:When Orbital bombardment becomes possible.....trust me bro . I will not be getting spawn camped.You dig my meaning? Ill spell this out for anyone who might not...thats gonna mean a whole lot of spawn campers dead in a very short period of time.
This is true but those won't always be available we legitimate counters in all situations and locations. Perhaps once a player is placing all the spawn point and structures that will be enough. I did see an interrating idea on a different thread. Basically it was to serious physical barrier and limited angles to camp the reserve spawn from. A shield was also suggested, players could pass through but no shots could get in or out. Now to me the shield idea is little OP you could just call a bunch of tanks and crap without any risk involved. Im gonna agree with bones on this ...everyone complains about being pushed back and being spawn camped and everyone complains about Madrugars and Sagaris tanks but after a guy gets killed a couple times in the spawn hell call his in and that usually ends all that.Not only that but I have made a kit for just that.Haul ass get out of the spawn and throw down a uplink if your dumb enough not to select the uplink that I just dropped for the one you are getting your butt kicked in now ..then you fail at life.
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Cain Hardestadt
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.07.17 16:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
I completly disagree with having invisibility or invulnerability for any amount of time after spawn. Although I do completly agree that something needs to be done with the spawns to reduce spawn point camping and the resulting frustration.
I do think Starhawk did a good job of dealing with this situation. Since we are all wearing Dropsuits, then this concept does become applicable. In Starhawk, during your respwn timer, you spent your time falling back down to the planet, and was able to slightly adjust your trajectory during the fall. Enemies would also take dmg or die if you were able to drop ontop of them.
Another possible solution: Having more randomized spawn points. When you select the area you want to spawn, there could be 3+ spots that you will spawn within that area. This will help reduce spawn point camping. |
Khun-Al
135
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Posted - 2012.07.17 16:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
It wont make sense because everyone would know the time you are invulnerable and wait until it ends or you move and shoot then. |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2012.07.17 19:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arbitrary "gamey" mechanics have no place in this sandbox. |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
171
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Posted - 2012.07.17 20:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Terrain and red lines have to be changed. If CCP does not already know this they are in the wrong business. A tank or merc should never be able to shoot into the spawn and kill before the spawned unit can do anything. It makes no sense in the current build so I just trust it is already fixed. Shame on the players soaking up points doing this...just lame... |
Zondervin Tau
4
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Posted - 2012.07.17 20:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lets talk strictly about being red lined for a second. This is a crapy place to be but I will agree that, frankly, its your own fault. I also agree with an eariler post that said you need a scout build to run fast and drop an uplink. That kinda says it right there. Eve/Dust is not about fairness, we all need to deal with that.
That being said I think that when high, low, null sec is fully implemented there could be different implementations.
For instance:
high sec - vehicles behind red line take .5 damage (to help newbies break out) - example only could be something else My thinking here is for the new player who gets red lined a lot in there first week or so of play. This could help them break through their personal frustration and enjoy the game. Hopefully they decide to move to low/null sec eventually.
low/null sec - As posted above. Deal with it and find a way out. You put yourself in this situation.
Questions/Comments?
Zon |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
171
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Posted - 2012.07.17 20:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dummies..."we" did not put ourselves anywhere. I join a game late and it is being spawn camped? And your thought pattern is Eve is not fair? "Should have got a drop link out" "Should not have picked bad players to play with?" "Should have not picked a enemy who has better and more tanks then you?" Get educated....players will quit or just not play. So yes it is broken and fix it. The back spawn for any team should never be fair game to receive fire. It is common sense..if you want to spawn camp play games that are ten years old that had that backward thinking (or just not progressed yet)...we evolved.
Once again they 99% fixed this already.But I can not believe how silly some of you are. |
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Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
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Posted - 2012.07.17 22:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Who called in the orbital bombardment?
Spawn point protected. |
Logisticus Testing
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.07.17 23:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
another possible fix would be to randomize, to an extent, where you spawn around a certain point. that way the camper's wouldn't know exactly where to aim. if you're 7 meters from the central spawn point, and the guy spawned 3 meters behind you at random, then the tables might be turned a little on that camper. also, again if it wouldn't make programming too complicated, make it so that you can't spawn closer than "x" meters from another object, including players. the more players or tanks crowding a spawn area, the further from the central spawn point you might spawn, making it impossible to predict where someone will pop up. granted, you could always stand back 30 meters and saturate the area with rail gun shots or something, but it makes it more likely that that scout with the spawn uplink could get out to drop it somewhere it won't immediately be camped itself, if it isn't just blown to smithereens. i don't think computers like to randomize on the fly, though, so not sure how well this could be implemented.
just my 2 1/100th ISK. i have to admit i LOVED the spawn system in Starhawk. dropping your drop pod on top of the guy that just killed you was AWESOME. on the other hand, orbital drops for a defending outpost don't really make sense, so i'm not sure how that would play out, unless they're launched from the defender's base into low orbit, then they fall back to the battlefield to ensure the combatant isn't just blown up as soon as he/she steps through the base's door, just some thoughts |
EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.07.17 23:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Arbitrary "gamey" mechanics have no place in this sandbox.
Thank you |
Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2012.07.17 23:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
I would only like some fox holes in starting points IMO. Rest is free game. They are going to randomize spawning anyways so thinking this might be moot. |
Zondervin Tau
4
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Posted - 2012.07.17 23:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rule #76 - No Excuses, play like a champion. |
EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.07.18 00:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Longshot Ravenwood wrote:Who called in the orbital bombardment? Spawn point protected.
The SP cost for doing such a thing(rewards) Would be far out weighed by the cost.What if I didnt spawn with the rest of my team right off the bat.I see this happen and then spawn in and RDV my DS while telling my team what Im planning. I evade and run down the map.12 angry pissed off individuals are now spawning on my drop ship behind your enemy line.....this tactic will not help you too win the match and only fuels them into greater frenzy.
EVICER WHAT IS GOOD IN LIFE! Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentaions of the scrubs crying for nerf in the forums..... YES!
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Groo Grux
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.07.18 00:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Check this idea:
What if for the game modes, the default spawn is an orbital inertia dampener drop thing, than a second or two of residual invulnerability field as a shield. I would love to see a more structured way of spawning instead of the default *POP* spawn. THEY'RE CALLED DROPSUITS haha.
Vehicles respectfully, that are fitted with clone m'things obviously have poof spawns in the ship/ car/ tank.
Drop uplinks are are tricky for me, they are more of a marker for soldiers to drop into the fight than a working clone module. Perhaps the soldiers inertia drop by the uplink, but than the enemy has a greater chance of finding the uplinks position... My opinion it would be ok, its not like the uplinks are a rare supply.
What do we think!? |
EVICER
63
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Posted - 2012.07.18 01:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote:Dummies..."we" did not put ourselves anywhere. I join a game late and it is being spawn camped? And your thought pattern is Eve is not fair? "Should have got a drop link out" "Should not have picked bad players to play with?" "Should have not picked a enemy who has better and more tanks then you?" Get educated....players will quit or just not play. So yes it is broken and fix it. The back spawn for any team should never be fair game to receive fire. It is common sense..if you want to spawn camp play games that are ten years old that had that backward thinking (or just not progressed yet)...we evolved.
Once again they 99% fixed this already.But I can not believe how silly some of you are.
In a real life battle you have already lost .You have already gave up the ground givin up the objective you were charged with to defend .Its only in a limited capacity of a video game map that your team under those conditions would even still be there you would still be getting pushed back under the onslaught and be in full retreat unless you counter attack .Its called retreat and since your being pushed all the way back you do and always still have that option ....its called the quit match button.Otherwise stand and fight.No one is going to save you...and if you need to get pissed to get it done than do it.Let it drive you. To push us all the way back......My friend you have forgotten how to play wargames.
More spawn options lol. For what? So your closer to the objective.LMAO
EVICER WHAT IS GOOD IN LIFE! Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentaions of the scrubs crying for nerf in the forums..... YES!
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