DUST Search - [Balance] Vehicle Weapon Splash Damage vs Troopers

6thAD Lord Kermit wrote:

Mobius Kaethis wrote:

I don't think that making the missiles lockon only is a good solution. Missiles would be just as useless as railguns then.

The splash damage of missiles is kind of the point. You should be able to hit people around corners with a missile. The easiest solution is to make the missile launchers have a slightly slower rate of fire.

I do think that there should be faster firing variants though, with lower damage or a smaller blast radius of course to compensate (or huge cpu/power requirements).

Just remember it isn't that the missile launchers are broken, blasters and rail guns are.

UHHH... NO...

railguns maybe... but blasters are not overpowered... they nerfed the range on them with the E3 build. You have to get danger close just to do enough damage with them to kill another tank.... most often a missle/rail tank will see/kill you long before you are even in range to do anything about it.

And I have to agree with one of the other posters... if yall are complainin about this now, I hate to see the river of tears when artillery is introduced.

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Beta Dust Fish Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2012.07.11 15:13:00 - [1] - Quote just get rid of it like you did with RPGs. make the Sargis Tank become a Spawn point to compensate.

GM Kiriap Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 122	Posted - 2012.07.11 16:51:00 - [2] - Quote Beta Dust Fish wrote: just get rid of it like you did with RPGs. make the Sargis Tank become a Spawn point to compensate. If you are making a request to our DEV Team, please use the appopiate sub forum. Is named "Feedback/Requests". I going to move to the right sub forum. Thank you for your cooperation. GM Kiriap

TotalBreakage Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 410	Posted - 2012.07.11 16:54:00 - [3] - Quote No. Are you talking about the small missile launcher turret splash damage? Since that is the most common dropship turret. Do not mess with the splash damage in any way because that is the whole purpose of those turrets. Anti-personal.
Mobius Kaethis Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 306	Posted - 2012.07.11 17:04:00 - [4] - Quote I half agree with Total and half with the OP on this one. There are other posts about this and I have said there that the small missile turrets are far to powerful compared to the other turrets. They need to retain their anti-personel ability though perhaps with a lower damage and a higher blast radius. Other turrets need to have their stats brought up to match. I know for the blasters right now the issue is more the hit detection for the huge number of rpm they toss.
Beta Dust Fish Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2012.07.11 17:44:00 - [5] - Quote its BOTH the Missile and the Driver Railgun (whatever it is called). watching garbage players shoot walls, cliffs, top of building, etc... but never directly hit you is the biggest problem. this goes for the 3 vehicle types in the game. the Machine Gun part is amazingly balanced and takes some skill to get a kill with it.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.07.11 17:58:00 - [6] - Quote Only balance I would suggest is bring direct hit damage down on the missiles. Then make small railguns more powerful. Missile turrets don't make you compromise raw damage vs area damage, and that is the biggest issue.
Traynor Youngs Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 287	Posted - 2012.07.11 18:04:00 - [7] - Quote The problem is not the missile turrets, its the other turrets. The spread on the auto cannon turrets makes them useless against anything smaller than a city bus. The charge up time on the railgun makes them useless against anything more mobile than a building. The missile turret is decent in antipersonnel, but difficult to aim from a fast moving vehicle (Dropship). I think the best weapon against infantry should be the auto cannon, the best weapon against vehicles and buildings should be Rails, and the missiles should be able to do either but less well. This also ignores the myriad other weapons we will undoubtably have soon (tm).
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.07.11 19:10:00 - [8] - Quote Beta Dust Fish wrote: just get rid of it like you did with RPGs. make the Sargis Tank become a Spawn point to compensate. No on both points. If you want the tank to stop splashing, take it out or scare it off. A couple militia swarms do wonders in driving them off, and add a bit more swarminess and it's dead. I've crapped myself when I see a wall of missiles or a small group of forge guns aiming at me from different directions. Get on a mic and communicate. And as a spawn point... I already fit a Mobile CRU on one of my Surya fits, so the ability to spawn on a tank is already there. EDIT: I'll concede a bit on the railgun splash. We could take it back to pre-E3 splash radius. Seemed to work just fine. They actually got a buff in splash range in the new build for some odd reason. Thought they were just fine the old way.
Asno Masamang Odd Shadows Inc 122	Posted - 2012.07.11 19:42:00 - [9] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Beta Dust Fish wrote: just get rid of it like you did with RPGs. No on both points. I agree with Pig here, though I think the missiles should be lock-on only. And for the love of all that is holy fix the other weapons. Blasters are supposed to be the anti-infantry weapon, but like Traynor states they are only good at hitting buses right now. Railguns are supposed to be anti-material, but the charge mechanics in Dust are just flat broken making the railguns nearly useless. Because of those two being screwed up and missiles being point and shoot, they have become the new n00b tubes. Quote: I'll concede a bit on the railgun splash. We could take it back to pre-E3 splash radius. Seemed to work just fine. They actually got a buff in splash range in the new build for some odd reason. Thought they were just fine the old way. I think the current splash range works well, but they really need to fix the charge mechanism. IMO, they need to make all charge weapons a passive charge. They would still retain their low ROF, but you can pull the trigger as often as you want, but it will not fire unless it is fully charged.
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.07.11 21:40:00 - [10] - Quote TotalBreakage wrote: No. Are you talking about the small missile launcher turret splash damage? Since that is the most common dropship turret. Do not mess with the splash damage in any way because that is the whole purpose of those turrets. Anti-personal. It's so easy to kill a drop ship anyways. you can even do it using nothing but free gear on a scout. Or the best counter, another dropship. Fly above them and waste it out of the sky with your own turrets.

Beta Phish Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2012.07.13 18:49:00 - [11] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Only balance I would suggest is bring direct hit damage down on the missiles. Then make small railguns more powerful. Missile turrets don't make you compromise raw damage vs area damage, and that is the biggest issue. I'm sorry you couldn't be more wrong. i was in one of your Tanks went 31-0 on the front Missile turret. I direct hit maybe 3 of those kills. While the Splash Damage gave me a few Triple kills and 4-5 Double kills. It took me zero skill to get those kills. Thats the problem people have is the Skill issue. You honestly can not tell yourself that the spawn trapping you do vs the defending team in your tank requires Skill. if you want increased direct damage, then you make the Turrets be pin point single target shots with No splash damage at all. i agree that 'Splash Damage' radius needs to be tightened and reduced or flat out removed vs ground forces.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.07.13 18:57:00 - [12] - Quote Remove splash damage and you might as well remove them from the game or change them to lock on turrets. I do not look forward to your threads when artillery is introduced and you start getting murdered by people out of line of sight.
Beta Phish Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2012.07.13 22:26:00 - [13] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Remove splash damage and you might as well remove them from the game or change them to lock on turrets. I do not look forward to your threads when artillery is introduced and you start getting murdered by people out of line of sight. Then get some SKILL by Aimining properly. vehicles vs buildings is different topic. this thread is about [Balance] Vehicle Weapon Splash Damage vs Troopers
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.07.14 00:55:00 - [14] - Quote I agree splash damage is high. Kind of gives a role to those heavies with high enough health to eat that damage. It probably needs toned down a bit but demanding removal is ignorance.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.07.14 01:06:00 - [15] - Quote Not to mention fully speccing into missiles on a tank, makes you exceptionally weak against other vehicles, which is a huge tradeoff. If a similar tank with a railgun comes around the corner, I'm going to have a bad day if I have large missiles equipped. You're complaining that a turret designed specifically for killing infantry, kills infantry easily. You want to reduce splash damage a bit? Ok fine, but removing it completely is idiotic. If anything its the direct damage of the XT Missiles that is excessive.
Mobius Kaethis Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 306	Posted - 2012.07.14 02:09:00 - [16] - Quote I don't think that making the missiles lockon only is a good solution. Missiles would be just as useless as railguns then. The splash damage of missiles is kind of the point. You should be able to hit people around corners with a missile. The easiest solution is to make the missile launchers have a slightly slower rate of fire. I do think that there should be faster firing variants though, with lower damage or a smaller blast radius of course to compensate (or huge cpu/power requirements). Just remember it isn't that the missile launchers are broken, blasters and rail guns are.
6thAD Lord Kermit 6th Armored Division 6	Posted - 2012.07.14 03:27:00 - [17] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I don't think that making the missiles lockon only is a good solution. Missiles would be just as useless as railguns then. The splash damage of missiles is kind of the point. You should be able to hit people around corners with a missile. The easiest solution is to make the missile launchers have a slightly slower rate of fire. I do think that there should be faster firing variants though, with lower damage or a smaller blast radius of course to compensate (or huge cpu/power requirements). Just remember it isn't that the missile launchers are broken, blasters and rail guns are. UHHH... NO... railguns maybe... but blasters are not overpowered... they nerfed the range on them with the E3 build. You have to get danger close just to do enough damage with them to kill another tank.... most often a missle/rail tank will see/kill you long before you are even in range to do anything about it. And I have to agree with one of the other posters... if yall are complainin about this now, I hate to see the river of tears when artillery is introduced.
Zero Arcadia Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2012.07.14 03:53:00 - [18] - Quote 6thAD Lord Kermit wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I don't think that making the missiles lockon only is a good solution. Missiles would be just as useless as railguns then. The splash damage of missiles is kind of the point. You should be able to hit people around corners with a missile. The easiest solution is to make the missile launchers have a slightly slower rate of fire. I do think that there should be faster firing variants though, with lower damage or a smaller blast radius of course to compensate (or huge cpu/power requirements). Just remember it isn't that the missile launchers are broken, blasters and rail guns are. UHHH... NO... railguns maybe... but blasters are not overpowered... they nerfed the range on them with the E3 build. You have to get danger close just to do enough damage with them to kill another tank.... most often a missle/rail tank will see/kill you long before you are even in range to do anything about it. And I have to agree with one of the other posters... if yall are complainin about this now, I hate to see the river of tears when artillery is introduced. He said they were broken, not OP. They're UP because of the Blasters fire too quickly for the recoil and hit detection to keep up, and the Railguns need to be charged and be direct hits in a rather unstable environment. As for the OP, they didn't remove the SL splash, they just made it negligible because it is a lock-on, shaped charge explosive. Missiles are meant to cover a large area, splashing several targets or effecting much of the wide side of a vehicle. It'll be far better once the other five turret systems are brought in line in terms of utility, and when the missiles and explosions always render so we can tell where they're coming from and where they're hitting.
Hellhammer Tactical Algintal Core Gallente Federation 45	Posted - 2012.07.14 05:06:00 - [19] - Quote i think the rail gun should work in reverse, you should fire the shot and then have it cool down. as to splash damage i think several weapons should be looked at in that regard, why does my forge gun so splash damage when its essentialy a high damage rail gun. hopefully this will be addressed with the calls for ammo types
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.07.14 05:11:00 - [20] - Quote Hellhammer Tactical wrote: i think the rail gun should work in reverse, you should fire the shot and then have it cool down. as to splash damage i think several weapons should be looked at in that regard, why does my forge gun so splash damage when its essentialy a high damage rail gun. hopefully this will be addressed with the calls for ammo types Rail guns also do splash damage, so it makes sense that they're like the Forge Gun.



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