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Khun-Al
135
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
How can I shoot out of my dropship like in this trailer?
E3 Trailer
If you reduce the radius of the turrets and every in the ship could fire the dropships hadnt so much power too. |
Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Greetings,
Khun-Al wrote:How can I shoot out of my dropship like in this trailer?
At present you cannot.
Quote:If you reduce the radius of the turrets and every in the ship could fire the dropships hadnt so much power too.
While I would love to be able to shoot my rifle from within the dropship, until they reduce the capabilities of the existing turrets, I would have to be against this. Dropships are already too powerful if they are fitted correctly, adding an extra two guns per side would be far too much overkill.
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Hawk Von Draum
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
122
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Posted - 2012.07.09 17:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Asno Masamang wrote:Greetings, Khun-Al wrote:How can I shoot out of my dropship like in this trailer? At present you cannot. Quote:If you reduce the radius of the turrets and every in the ship could fire the dropships hadnt so much power too. While I would love to be able to shoot my rifle from within the dropship, until they reduce the capabilities of the existing turrets, I would have to be against this. Dropships are already too powerful if they are fitted correctly, adding an extra two guns per side would be far too much overkill.
perhaps it could be coded that if a turrets are not equipped onto a drop ship the passengers can shoot out instead. |
Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.09 17:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hawk Von Draum wrote:perhaps it could be coded that if a turrets are not equipped onto a drop ship the passengers can shoot out instead.
That is one solution, but I don't really think that would be fair to the DS pilot... IMO a better solution would be to limit the DS to using blasters and beam lasers (when they are added) as they are both short range weaponry that would be more for LZ cleaning. At the same time though, if they go this route, I would recommend giving the pilot a spinal mount gun, which could be a rail or missile.
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Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Asno Masamang wrote:Greetings, Khun-Al wrote:How can I shoot out of my dropship like in this trailer? At present you cannot. Quote:If you reduce the radius of the turrets and every in the ship could fire the dropships hadnt so much power too. While I would love to be able to shoot my rifle from within the dropship, until they reduce the capabilities of the existing turrets, I would have to be against this. Dropships are already too powerful if they are fitted correctly, adding an extra two guns per side would be far too much overkill.
Please explain how DS's are OP?
They are hard to shoot from unless you stand still.
If you stand still, you are an easy target.
They have paper armor, even when you have millions of SP in them and are fitted correctly.
So, if you could shoot light weapons and sidearms from inside them, then how would that be OP?
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Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Please explain how DS's are OP?
Let's look closely at DS... It can fly only slightly slower than a swarm missile, has more shield and armor than LAV, has two light weapon turrets, moves in all three dimensions. Now right off the bat some would say 'so what it is paper thin', but they are either lying to you or worse lying to themselves. A properly handled DS is near impervious to HAVs and LAVs as well as most infantry and capable of killing with near impunity, and it is not meant to be an air superiority vehicle.
Because of it's speed, a decent DS pilot can pretty much avoid any Swarm missile that they are aware of. This is why I am all for giving them a lock-on warning, On top of that, because they fly just a bit slower than the Swarm missiles at present, once the afterburners are introduced they will be able to not only evade swarm missiles, they will actually fly faster too.
A properly fit DS has the same number of mid slots and more low slots than a LAV. In addition, they have more weapon slots than the LAV. Because of this, someone with a decent amount of DS skills will have more EHP than an LAV and more effective firepower to boot.
Due to the current issues with 'guided' and directed weaponry versus sighting distance, a properly handled DS can effectively shoot from beyond the effective range of any land based unit which means they can and do hunt HAVs / LAVs / Infantry with near impunity.
Quote:They are hard to shoot from unless you stand still.
Were this truly the case you would never see people acting as DS gunners. No, it is as easy to shoot from a moving DS as it is to shoot from a moving HAV
Quote:They have paper armor, even when you have millions of SP in them and are fitted correctly.
No, some of them are because the driver wants to add damage mods. If they fit it correctly, you have more EHP than an LAV...
Quote:So, if you could shoot light weapons and sidearms from inside them, then how would that be OP?
Your DS provides it's protection to all of their passengers outside of a narrow 30ish degree window. Now from a distance that 30 degree window is pretty narrow, but to those people inside that window it is not narrow at all.
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Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2012.07.09 20:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Asno Masamang wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:Please explain how DS's are OP? Let's look closely at DS... It can fly only slightly slower than a swarm missile, has more shield and armor than LAV, has two light weapon turrets, moves in all three dimensions. Now right off the bat some would say 'so what it is paper thin', but they are either lying to you or worse lying to themselves. A properly handled DS is near impervious to HAVs and LAVs as well as most infantry and capable of killing with near impunity, and it is not meant to be an air superiority vehicle.
First off, there is no air superiority in this game since their is no air to air combat really. The Dropship is supposed to provide air cover and support, which is what it does now.
Also, we are only impervious to HAVs that are not being careful with their firing. If you lead us, you hit us and the missile turret HAVs eat us for lunch. The Rail gun LAV takes out nearly all of my shields in one go, but is hard to aim, so if I am moving, it is hard to hit me, but it is really hard for my gunners to take you out too.
Asno Masamang wrote:Because of it's speed, a decent DS pilot can pretty much avoid any Swarm missile that they are aware of. This is why I am all for giving them a lock-on warning, On top of that, because they fly just a bit slower than the Swarm missiles at present, once the afterburners are introduced they will be able to not only evade swarm missiles, they will actually fly faster too.
We are fast enough to avoid them now, but Swarmers have unlimited fuel and so will chase you forever. So you can fly in circles, and try to get them to hit buildings and stuff but all the while you are getting more and more swarmers after you as people fire more of them at you. All of this time, your gunners are doing NOTHING to contribute cause they can't hit anything.
Asno Masamang wrote:A properly fit DS has the same number of mid slots and more low slots than a LAV. In addition, they have more weapon slots than the LAV. Because of this, someone with a decent amount of DS skills will have more EHP than an LAV and more effective firepower to boot.
Your comparison is invalid. A dropship is in the air, and so visible by many many more people than an LAV. The LAV can dash around a corner to avoid you shooting at it, a DS is at the mercy of anyone who can see them. Furthermore, the DS only has two turret slots because it needs to be able to shoot down and at both sides. And either way, it can only shoot a single target with one gun at a time. There is no turret overlap (except directly below them and so only good for taking out solo HAV's)
Asno Masamang wrote:Due to the current issues with 'guided' and directed weaponry versus sighting distance, a properly handled DS can effectively shoot from beyond the effective range of any land based unit which means they can and do hunt HAVs / LAVs / Infantry with near impunity.
I will concede that the draw distance allows for people to abuse Dropships by parking them on towers.
However, the most effective use of a dropship is with a full squad of mercs and so it represents the largest number of mercs supported of any vehicle. An entire squad may be dropship based and thus their dropship is important to all 7 of them. When used with this kind of teamwork, they can be amazing, but they also will cause them all to be much less effective if the DS is destroyed.
Being a gunner is very difficult. You have to shoot CONSTANTLY to hit anything anytime. When the dropship is moving around a lot, missiles go off in weird directions. The only reason people get kills with them is because the DS pilot slows down and hovers, giving them a stable platform to shoot from. But when we do this, a single volley of swarms will ruin our day.
They are supposed to have more EHP than an LAV, the LAV is the equivalent to the scout suit and the Dropship is the equivalent to the assault.
To your last point, the people you can shoot at is exactly the same people that can shoot you if you are restricted to a cone of 30-40 degrees. IF you can shoot out, someone can shoot in. Thats balance.
There is a reason that the military doesn't use helicopter transports with door guns to provide air cover very often. It because they are not well suited for it for all the same reasons that I have said (thin armor, visibility, need for stability, etc). But, what the military DOES use them for is to cover the insertion and extraction of people who ride them. In this role, the Dropship is king. But has many many drawbacks.
The problem with them currently is:
A. Anyone can fly them for free
B. The draw distance allows them to use towers without being targeted from the ground.
Thats it.
The rest is just fine.
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