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Fobhopper
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
11
   |
Posted - 2012.07.07 08:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now I am not the 'best' FPS player, I am pretty damn good, but not Mr. Perfect. I haven't been able to invest the amount of time I want or needed to get into the higher tier equipment and skills, but I make do pretty good with what I have access to. But I am going to have to say that there needs to be some balancing happening in the game.
In a game earlier today, the assaulting team early on called in 2 Gunnlogi and a Safaris, all VERY well equipped. and not just that, but also a Viper. Several of our players also attempted to call in the 'militia' HAV's to deal with them, and were handily wiped out. I was able to order in my militia Sica behind one of their tanks, and proceeded to fire, not only did they not even turn their turret, they just drove backwards into me and blew up my tank without even taking a shot. Not to mention that after they blew up all of our turrets and had us completely spawn camped, they ordered a Viper, and instead of trying to shoot at us, all it did was fly up, and then drop down and crush us as we spawned. Even with 4 of our team going into the militia 'heavy' and spamming swarm launchers (we only had 7 people left on our team by the time the game ended) we could not blow up their tanks.
I take it that the players who spent the time and had the money to get the skills and afford the fits deserve to be able to bring nice and shiny tanks to the field, but they need to be nerfed a little bit, or at least put some kind of limit to the amount of upper tier tanks that can be brought into game, or possibly put some kind of space between higher SP players and lesser SP players. We were completely spawn camped and unable to do much.
Just to make it clear, I dont hate the players who have shinier stuff then me, if i had the time to spend to get those fancy toys I sure as hell would be using them, but having higher SP players in game with lower SP players is effectively handing the more experienced chainsaw-clubs to go to town on us baby seals/carebears. Honestly a Viper should be able to keep 'jumping' up and down on the defensive teams spawn point.
Now another question comes up? Like "Well I have the same amount of SP as you (currently as of this posting I had 2.5m SP) except I just speed skilled into HAV's" and thats a perfectly legitimate point, but the problem that arises is that infantry weapon and effectively even militia tanks dont even hold a candle, much less even do enough damage to the upper tier tanks to be able to bring it down. We had 1 player with a forge gun, and 3 others with swarm launchers all attack the same tank, and we all ran out of ammo/died multiple times before we could blow up just 1 of the upper tier tanks, and that left 2 more on the field, and as soon as the owner respawned, he ordered a new one.
As a beta, its good to get things things ironed out and up for discussion, and we all know that things are still in flux, which is a good thing, but as it stands right now, a team with an upper tiered tank is going to completely dominate the field right now. The only thing that can bring balance is the introduction of installations so players can summon missile and railgun turrets to hep better defend against tanks, but as it stands right now, militia tanks, and infantry heavy weapons dont do a damn thing except tickle the tank. if SP and PG/CPU requirements could be lessened for the more 'common' player to use demolitions or get access to other heavy weapons AND be able to equip them, infantry are going to be easily blown away. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 09:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
First-off: Taking on a GROUP of high-tier tanks with one you got FOR FREE? What did you think was going to happen?
Switch to infantry AT weaponry. Or coordinate better with your teammates. You can evade enemy heavy weapons fire better on foot. Pop up, take a few shots, duck behind cover, reappear someone else.
And the spawn-camping is a well-discussed known issue - spawning is meant to be randomised to some degree, but it's not working as intended. When this is fixed, dropships won't be quite so easily squishing you as you spawn.
Also, there are other limitations that will be included in future to prevent vehicle spam. This isn't your average "almost finished game, may as well be a demo" beta. We're actually being used to TEST things here. |
Fobhopper
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.07.07 10:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
I understand that we are guinea pigs, this isnt the first beta test I have been in, but the fact of the matter is that upper tier tanks are currently POWER OVERWHELMING, I just finished a game with only 1 player on the assault side that had an upgraded tank, and we got our asses handed to ourselves so quickly that by the time the MCC docked, it only had 1/2 shield damage.
HUR DUR switching to AT weaponry is advised to tanking on a tank, the problem is they don't enough damage, nor are they accurate enough to deal with the stronger HAV's. also trying to coordinate with your team is a TRULY AMAZING IDEA, WHY HADNT I THOUGHT OF THAT, simple fact is, not everyone has a headset, and not everybody cares about strategy, especially when your spawn camped and players are leaving the game left and right. All of our defenses were destroyed VERY quickly, swarm launchers aren't very effective against them (the basic loadout). I am not expecting a free tank to be very good at all, but currently all it takes is someone to speed train into HAV's, and you will all but guarantee your teams success, they are just simply too strong right now and the majority of players dont have access to equipment (namely forge guns) to effectively fight them.
as a previously said, its great that people who have the skills and can afford really good tanks, but currently as the game is (especially without installations), any team with a single upgraded tank is going to completely annihilate the opposing team with little effort. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 11:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
What AT weapon are you trying to use that isn't accurate enough? Swarm Missiles have lock on, and if you're having trouble with a Forge Gun, that's because you're bad with the weapon, not because it's inaccurate.
And you're ignoring the "full game will have limitations" part of the post - we already KNOW FOR A FACT that people won't be able to just spam high-tier vehicles all day.
Last on-topic point: if your teammates suck, that's not the game's fault, and proper team support is another currently-absent feature that will be added before release.
And now I'm going to finish by asking why you're being so rude about it? I was giving helpful advice, not telling you that you're an idiot. You don't need to be so defensive. |
Ryan Martel
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2012.07.07 11:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fobhopper may I ask a few things and give you some advise. Try not to bite the hand of someone that helps ya out for one thing but here we go with the actual game itself.
We're getting into what I constantly do and practice every match. Basically the best approaches I have found is to either fight fire with fire and be a tank specialist yourself or make a prototype swarmer/forge gun build and mod it with Complex Weapon mods to increase damage. Weaponry skill will do this for you as well and since you have to build weaponry to get to Forge Guns and the Mods it makes sense to build this one up anyway. I cannot recall off the top of my head if Swarm Launchers have this requirement as well but Weaponry is majorly useful.
Mainly because doing this allows you to nuke almost every tank in the game except tank specialists in one to two shots. Tank Specialists you'll have to get creative with and coordinate with but it will be easier for you to deal with vehicles this way. You can drive them off typically in two shots and four quick shots will tend to kill them. Also Forge Guns are Heavy Weapons and Swarm launchers are Light Weapons and thus those skills that pertain to boosting those weapons will apply to them as well. Then slap some AV grenades on you and you'll be capable of standing a chance at least.
As for the Militia Tanks and such, they are made of paper pretty much and will not stand up to the kind of punishment Marauder-Class tanks can dish out and take. Good idea though to gang up on them and if they were not Militia tanks it might have worked out better. If my advice has helped in any way then I wish you the best. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 11:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
And you're ignoring the "full game will have limitations" part of the post - we already KNOW FOR A FACT that people won't be able to just spam high-tier vehicles all day.
Nope.
No vehicle limitation: as long as you have enough of them you are free to RDV them all. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
Doomheim
83
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 12:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yesterday I managed to soloed Sagaris(6xIshukone AFG) but only because a member of his team made GÇïGÇïa mistake and blocked his way to escape with his own tank. The best way to blow up a high-tier tank is to fired him from 2-3 AFG dudes that are located in 3 places on the map. This is because as soon as the tank drop on his tanking ability he starting to run away. So to finish him we always need someone in the second part of the map who can blowup him.
I recommend using more AFG than SL , AFG are more precise, instant dmg (SL are slower and always choose the shortest route - so they usually end up at buildings).
You do not need to have plenty sp in heavy to operate them - Weaponry 5, forge gun spec. on 2, heavy dropsuit on 2(and that's all you need on start). |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 15:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
And you're ignoring the "full game will have limitations" part of the post - we already KNOW FOR A FACT that people won't be able to just spam high-tier vehicles all day.
Nope. No vehicle limitation: as long as you have enough of them you are free to RDV them all.
It's been confirmed that ISK and SP earnings in the current build are MUCH higher than they'll be after release.
If you spend 100,000ISK on a vehicle, its death will take several missions to recover costs. If you lose 2 expensive vehicles, that's a weekend of playtime to rebuild. Players won't be doing that on a regular basis.
I'd call that a limitation that prevents people spamming high-tier vehicles constantly. |
Jerec Suron
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 19:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
I posted about this same issue. I had at least 4 people including me firing at a tank. When I got close enough to see how much damage we had barely dented his shields.
However, I did learn that supposedly You'll use ISK to buy equipment but have to have war points to summon/call it. This will limit how often someone can call a tank in because they'll need to rack up more war points.
When I was looking swarmers yesterday it was showing they all do 350 per missile. Maybe they need to tweak the direct damage on the upper tier ones a little. |
BigBry HNK
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
In the end, at this rate Dust514 will only have the hardcore players that play more than they work or sleep... This game IS very unbalanced, it is like Eve. Eve is a game that you have to almost live in to be successful at it. Since that is what they are basing Dust514 on, that is what they are creating. This game will not be for the casual gamer unless they make some big changes to the direction of this game. |
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Milk Supreme
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
127
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Posted - 2012.07.07 20:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
BigBry HNK wrote:In the end, at this rate Dust514 will only have the hardcore players that play more than they work or sleep... This game IS very unbalanced, it is like Eve. Eve is a game that you have to almost live in to be successful at it. Since that is what they are basing Dust514 on, that is what they are creating. This game will not be for the casual gamer unless they make some big changes to the direction of this game.
Hey now thats a huge generalisation.
I play EVE irregularly, often at 10 minute sessions.
I own a titan and have enough isk to handily buy whatever I want.
You just have to play smart.
It can be for the casual player, but again it can't
The casual player can have their role of shooting and capturing objectives, but when a group of experienced organised people decide to roll in, you have to get smart or you will have a bad day.
This should push people to coordinate with their team mates better and the egotistic lone wolf will die off (hopefully).
Luckily, the experienced organised people would most likely not play on random public games and be hunting for those more lucrative corp contracts that would pay worlds more than any public skirmish would.
I know how much CCP want to appeal to the masses, but it is a known fact that it just can't.
You can't cater for everyone. |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Nope.
No vehicle limitation: as long as you have enough of them you are free to RDV them all.
False. The War Points system will prevent any sort of vehicle spam, high-tier or otherwise.
1:13:30
1:21:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNhPig8inEY
Will everyone stop crying about militia vehicles and tank spam now? |
BigBry HNK
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Between the spawn camping and the overpowered weapons you won't get any new players... They will all get pissed off and stop playing before they can earn any isk. I am an experienced player of CoOp FPS games, been playing them since Doom & Unreal on networked PCs, and I'm willing to play over and over getting slaughtered cause I know that eventually I can buy better goods then I can kill and get skills to be able to kill better. But even then, I don't play for more than an hour unless my clan is on so we can work together making it ACTUALLY FUN. As it is, this is the WORST FPS I have EVER played. |
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