DUST Search - Question about FRIENDLY FIRE.. [FF] ( future planning?)

Sandair Mulholy wrote:

FF will most probably be in Dust514 due to its connection to Eve. But there is a very big difference about FF in Eve and Dust: In Eve there is no way to kill someone in high sec without it costing you money and security status: a free noob frigate won't even scratch the paint off a miner before Concord destroys them, so you need to fit a fairly good ship to kill someone in high sec, and even with insurance, it will still cost you.

This is not the case in Dust. A free dropsuit can kill just about anyone from the back. Worse still if you get in a missile installation, you can kill very expensive vehicles pretty quickly.

So FF needs to be regulated somehow in Dust. E.g. when you get killed by FF you could have the option (in case it was an honest mistake) of requiring retribution from the killer(s). Too many friendly kills (with retribution) could mean a ban, or the team could ban players. Bans would be in you permanent record and affect your "trust" or "effectiveness" index (or simply a "average nb of bans/match"). Contracts could be limited to mercs with a certain index level only. Player installations could be limited to mercs with a certain index level.

If the killer does not have the money, he would be banned automatically, or better yet, the payment would be taken from everybody else in the team (all for one and one for all kind of philosophy), then the ban would probably come hard and fast from the players themselves.

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Kgun Krow 6	Posted - 2012.07.05 06:58:00 - [1] - Quote 1: Will there be friendly fire in Dust 514? 2: If there's going to be friendly fire will it be everywhere all the time. ( corp battles / Regular battles ) 3: how will friendly fire work? - vehicle crushing(ships, tanks, LAV)? - weapon splash damage? - any other dmg that would be counted as FF. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I really have been enjoying the Mass Driver, I don't mind friendly fire, i just worry about the splash damage from my weapons killing team mates. .. any thoughts? any information on what it's going to be like? thanks.
Sohkar Adelis Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2012.07.05 07:26:00 - [2] - Quote like most games it will be either turned on/off. My guess it will be all out FF. As most FPS act as such. Should be fun when a Noob takes the Missile Installation.
dust badger BetaMax. 283	Posted - 2012.07.05 08:42:00 - [3] - Quote i really hope they don't add it, normally im for it, its realistic. but in this game where you loose your fitting, you can get someone who thinks they are amazing in cheap militia gear killing all his home team for "tears" and that would suck. then again it will serve everybody right who buys all the aurum stuff :)
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.07.05 08:45:00 - [4] - Quote hummm i do think they will actually add FF later. . . i mean in eve online you can also attack your friends (if i am right) so why not in Dust? i mean in Eve online the fittings are a teeeny weeeny bit more expensive (talking about millions of isk and more)
dust badger BetaMax. 283	Posted - 2012.07.05 08:55:00 - [5] - Quote well in eve you can kill your own people, but the police come and kill you ( this is in high secruity areas, the rest is a free for all) so you loose something as well
Mafty Navilles Erin Legitimate Businessman's Club 8	Posted - 2012.07.05 10:11:00 - [6] - Quote FF should be added in all means. And I mean, FF should hurt yourself as well. Also, friendly/enemy vehicle verification is borked. I'd spot an vehicle and shoot it, only to realized that it's my own team mate. Of course FF is not on so it doesn't matter, but you feel extremely stupid and ashamed for what you did. Friendly/enemy detection should work with further lod. In regards to griefers, those nefarious characters are identified and dealt with in Eve. Dust should be the same, and corps hiring mercs should be careful who they are contracting with.
Sandair Mulholy Codex Troopers 42	Posted - 2012.07.05 15:16:00 - [7] - Quote FF will most probably be in Dust514 due to its connection to Eve. But there is a very big difference about FF in Eve and Dust: In Eve there is no way to kill someone in high sec without it costing you money and security status: a free noob frigate won't even scratch the paint off a miner before Concord destroys them, so you need to fit a fairly good ship to kill someone in high sec, and even with insurance, it will still cost you. This is not the case in Dust. A free dropsuit can kill just about anyone from the back. Worse still if you get in a missile installation, you can kill very expensive vehicles pretty quickly. So FF needs to be regulated somehow in Dust. E.g. when you get killed by FF you could have the option (in case it was an honest mistake) of requiring retribution from the killer(s). Too many friendly kills (with retribution) could mean a ban, or the team could ban players. Bans would be in you permanent record and affect your "trust" or "effectiveness" index (or simply a "average nb of bans/match"). Contracts could be limited to mercs with a certain index level only. Player installations could be limited to mercs with a certain index level. If the killer does not have the money, he would be banned automatically, or better yet, the payment would be taken from everybody else in the team (all for one and one for all kind of philosophy), then the ban would probably come hard and fast from the players themselves.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.06 16:34:00 - [8] - Quote Sandair Mulholy wrote: FF will most probably be in Dust514 due to its connection to Eve. But there is a very big difference about FF in Eve and Dust: In Eve there is no way to kill someone in high sec without it costing you money and security status: a free noob frigate won't even scratch the paint off a miner before Concord destroys them, so you need to fit a fairly good ship to kill someone in high sec, and even with insurance, it will still cost you. This is not the case in Dust. A free dropsuit can kill just about anyone from the back. Worse still if you get in a missile installation, you can kill very expensive vehicles pretty quickly. So FF needs to be regulated somehow in Dust. E.g. when you get killed by FF you could have the option (in case it was an honest mistake) of requiring retribution from the killer(s). Too many friendly kills (with retribution) could mean a ban, or the team could ban players. Bans would be in you permanent record and affect your "trust" or "effectiveness" index (or simply a "average nb of bans/match"). Contracts could be limited to mercs with a certain index level only. Player installations could be limited to mercs with a certain index level. If the killer does not have the money, he would be banned automatically, or better yet, the payment would be taken from everybody else in the team (all for one and one for all kind of philosophy), then the ban would probably come hard and fast from the players themselves. PlanetSide's "grief point" system might be an option, but really, I don't think it should exist here. Backstabbing and spying are a part of new eden. the forced repayment is also unacceptable, for the same reason. I'd be ok with disabling friendly fire in highsec (as mentioned, a concord equivalent wouldn't be viable), but in low and null, part of corp leadership's job is screening recruits, and dealing with traitors.
STB-TedNugent EV 159	Posted - 2012.07.06 16:58:00 - [9] - Quote Friendly fire I don't like the idea of that. As your going to have people who have a grudge against you that will get kicks off of team killing. Or someone who wants a turret that your are using may say hey I want that and just tk you to be able to use it. These are things that should be taken into consideration. Nothing ruins a round for me like being tk'd by people who dislike you or the clan you represent.
Sohkar Adelis Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2012.07.06 17:01:00 - [10] - Quote Guyz, In all likelyhood it will be added whether we like it or not. CCP will probably add a button for On/Off however, so at least we can choose if we want a harder game.

Thor Thunder Fist Better Hide R Die 79	Posted - 2012.07.06 17:04:00 - [11] - Quote FF is debatable with the current spotting system I can't say how many time me n friendly tanks have shot at each other untill the spotting system gets a revamp Imma say no
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.06 17:13:00 - [12] - Quote Sohkar Adelis wrote: Guyz, In all likelyhood it will be added whether we like it or not. CCP will probably add a button for On/Off however, so at least we can choose if we want a harder game. Umm, no, they likely won't. Turn off friendly fire, laucnh aoe weapon into friendlh group, all enemies die and friendlies win by default. That's obviously broken. The only fair way to let the carebears have their way is to turn it off in high-sec, and enable 100% ff damage (i.e no reduced damage amount) everywhere else. If you can't handle a hardcore game, don't play a hardcore game. It's that simple, but nothing is more broken than making it toggleable (this isn't a match-in-a-vacuum game, you don't pick servers based on the playstyle you want, it's all in the same universe, which means all have to follow the same ruleset, no exceptions.) Leaving it off is also stupid since it allows indiscriminate use of aoe weapons (and orbital strikes!), without needing to worry about collateral damage. It also detracts from the eve universe, in which trechery and turncoats are an integral reality of the world. Further, CCP doesn't show things you can't do in trailers. If it's a gameplay aspect, you'll be able to do it (SoonGäó). They showed an orbital strike killing friendlies, they'll kill friendlies here. And it should be enabled across the board. Note: There's one possible contradiction to that rule, since they said there will be no fighting in stations, but they also showed an assassination in a station in a trailer. We don't know how this will play out, yet.
Sohkar Adelis Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2012.07.06 17:20:00 - [13] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: Umm, no, they likely won't. Turn off friendly fire, laucnh aoe weapon into friendlh group, all enemies die and friendlies win by default. That's obviously broken. Friendly Fire by nature is broken, its incredibly difficult to code certain conditions for it. As for your comment about it interfering with other people, not true, lots of games have personal FF buttons. It does not have to effect everyone, you simple unlock the "shields" that protect against it. Personally, I would rather Dust didn't have it, as when the full game comes out the cruise missles from hell will make the game way to crazy.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.06 17:32:00 - [14] - Quote Sohkar Adelis wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: Umm, no, they likely won't. Turn off friendly fire, laucnh aoe weapon into friendlh group, all enemies die and friendlies win by default. That's obviously broken. Friendly Fire by nature is broken, its incredibly difficult to code certain conditions for it. As for your comment about it interfering with other people, not true, lots of games have personal FF buttons. It does not have to effect everyone, you simple unlock the "shields" that protect against it. Personally, I would rather Dust didn't have it, as when the full game comes out the cruise missles from hell will make the game way to crazy. Ok, "hey guys, dropping an OS on your heads, turn FF off; what? everyone already has it off, because it provides a tactical advantage in a game with consequences? ok" There is no situation where ff isn't gamebreaking, unless your intention is to make a carebear game for kids, without consequence or tactics. just look at all the people using grenades and missiles at point blank now. In a game with servers you pick based on the playstyle, your naive suggestion works. Those that suck can play on normal servers, and the rest of us play on hardcore servers where ff is 100% and there are no neon, screen-width grenade indicators (and don't get me started on "radar" on infantry). This is not that game. Your actions have consequences for you, your team, and the entire new eden universe, both in dust and in eve. The same rules must apply to all, and not having full friendly fire is destructive to intelligent, tactical combat, balance, immersion, and the consequences that give meaning to everything we do in dust and in eve. I'm sorry, but if you cannot accept these facts, this is not the game for you. You're welcome to keep playing on non-hardcore, ff-disabled servers in bf3 or cod. Dust is part of EVE. Our actions have consequences, and ur "allies" might betray us. That's part of the game. Not enabling full friendly fire breaks this.


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