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Majin Sora
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.07.02 22:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Instead of focusing players standings on the team roster purely on K/D ratio they should also add a point system.
Instead of being rated on how many kills and deaths you have (like in COD) you would get graded on how well you played tactically and as a team (i.e. destroying dropships, tanks, cloning stations or hacking , saving other team mates, and resuplying.)
This way if your the type of player who spends half the match giving ground or air support your not left all the way at the bottom looking like you did nothing the entire match
or am i getting the wrong picture and this game is based purely on kills ? o.o |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 22:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Majin Sora wrote:Instead of focusing players standings on the team roster purely on K/D ratio they should also add a point system.
Instead of being rated on how many kills and deaths you have (like in COD) you would get graded on how well you played tactically and as a team (i.e. destroying dropships, tanks, cloning stations or hacking , saving other team mates, and resuplying.)
This way if your the type of player who spends half the match giving ground or air support your not left all the way at the bottom looking like you did nothing the entire match
or am i getting the wrong picture and this game is based purely on kills ? o.o
They have war points. look at teh leaderboards next weekend and look at those.
better yet, look at corps stats for KDR vs the corps WP.
The higher KDR have MUCH less WP. |
Lilianna Sentinel
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
295
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think there is one in place but it isn't fully implemented.
I agree with the notion of removing K/D ratio scores though. Emphasis on that only causes problems. |
Baalash Parda
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2012.07.02 22:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:They have war points. look at teh leaderboards next weekend and look at those.
better yet, look at corps stats for KDR vs the corps WP.
The higher KDR have MUCH less WP.
I've been playing for a while and have been a good lil soldier, yet I have zero War Points. :<
Why? |
Max Trichomes
Quantum Kittens Syndicate
68
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 22:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
I completely agree with the OP. When games end, it should be ranked by WPs. Although the game should definitely track K/D it should not be used to rank people or corps. K/D should be something that is only in your personal stats, near the bottom. Making K/D seem so important (when it is not important at all) by highlighting in stats so much causes people to not play the objective and just try and K/D wh*re. When WarPoints are the primary way of ranking each other, the stat whores will try to get more WP as opposed to having the highest K/D. Having games where 60% of the players are worried about K/D does not lead to a fun game. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 22:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Baalash Parda wrote:RolyatDerTeufel wrote:They have war points. look at teh leaderboards next weekend and look at those.
better yet, look at corps stats for KDR vs the corps WP.
The higher KDR have MUCH less WP. I've been playing for a while and have been a good lil soldier, yet I have zero War Points. :< Why?
That in character sheet, idk why it's messed up.
but in the leaderboards you can see you're WP. |
Majin Sora
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 22:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lilianna Sentinel wrote:I think there is one in place but it isn't fully implemented.
I agree with the notion of removing K/D ratio scores though. Emphasis on that only causes problems.
well im not asking to remove it but i do want to see another method of ranking players on the roster so that the person with 20 kills/17 deaths is NOT on top of a player who has 5 kills/ 3 Deaths (who also hacked most of the stations and succesfully defended them, and destroyed or sabotaged many of the enemies artillery) |
Aiden Angel
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.07.02 22:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
100% agree.
KDR should be tracked but they should also track assists, hacks/captures, how much healing and ammo they've supplied for others, as well as stats dealing with vehicles, etc. <-These would be tracked in a player's personal stats. I think they should also track W/L, games played and play time. The latter being not as necessary. Maybe things such as contracts completed once contracts are available.
In a match it should show a player's KD, assists and their overall points for a match. If it's in a game type like skirmish it should show hacks/captures. In a game type like ambush having an emphasis on KD makes sense. So each match should track stats according to what kind of game type it is.
Stats should be available on the in-game score board and under your personal stats as well.
I just want others stats to be shown so players can see what everyone did or is doing in a match. |
Majin Sora
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.07.03 14:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Max Trichomes wrote:I completely agree with the OP. When games end, it should be ranked by WPs. Although the game should definitely track K/D it should not be used to rank people or corps. K/D should be something that is only in your personal stats, near the bottom. Making K/D seem so important (when it is not important at all) by highlighting in stats so much causes people to not play the objective and just try and K/D wh*re. When WarPoints are the primary way of ranking each other, the stat whores will try to get more WP as opposed to having the highest K/D. Having games where 60% of the players are worried about K/D does not lead to a fun game.
or put the K/D ratio second to the WP wich are also gained by getting kills |
Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 14:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Greetings,
Max Trichomes wrote:Having games where 60% of the players are worried about K/D does not lead to a fun game. This is the primary reason I feel that K/D should not be tracked. Yes, I tend to lone wolf it, but when there is a valid option to support my team, I will be there. Because I use a sniper or AV fit, that support generally tends to be "less obvious" for the team. When they only look at K/D it looks like I do very little for the team. When they look at War Points, I tend to come out a bit higher in the standings because I am doing what I can to support the team. I am the same way in EVE where I fly either CovOps or Recon.
Besides, I suck badly enough at FPS that my K/D is down in the double digits... After the period that is. ;) |
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DarthVdka
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Baalash Parda wrote: I've been playing for a while and have been a good lil soldier, yet I have zero War Points. :<
Why?
Same for me. I play the heck out of the objectives hack them, defend them, re hack them, stop hacks in process, hack supply dumps , clone sites, hack unattended vehicles etc. have an average to below average k/d of 1.55 and still not a single War point. |
GoD-NoVa
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 18:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
I have about a 5.0 K/D and my WP is around 90,000+ I pretty much do any and everything to win, all i do is hack and kill. each and every game i end up with around 20+ kills sometimes reaching 30+ with my best game being 41-3. I would like to see a system that rewards you for getting the most kills AND getting a large amount of hack points or any other points that help the team win. I mean if i get 25-30 kills, hack everything i can, kill a couple of tanks, save a few teammates and defend every objective all in one game i think i should be rewarded ATLEAST 60,000-90,000 SP and 150,000-200,000+ ISK. I hate having to have done all that and only get 6,000-10,000 SP when i play a good number of hours. The ISK gain is ok cuz i still get a large amount. Im up to 7.3 mill in ISK. |
Taco Dropsuit
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2012.07.04 02:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm not that good of a shooter, I used to run after any enemy hoping to catch them off guard, but lately I've changed my strategy and I stick next to my team, I've gotten lots of assists and lots of "kill steals".
Its fun when I "steal" somebody's kill and then he "steals" mine.
I've improved my K/D ratio but I think K/D is selfish.
I move in favor of moving K/D ratio somewhere where it makes it seem less important. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 09:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
I prefer a lack of K/D focus in team-based games, because heavily support-focused builds/players (like healers) usually run very low on K/D and emphasising that stat over others is a good way to make them feel underappreciated. |
Max Trichomes
Quantum Kittens Syndicate
68
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 03:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Whoops.... Accidental post. |
dejeffers
Anonymous Killers Mercenary Corporation
43
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 08:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
This game is about killing and hacking, so the kdr stats are important but they shouldn't be the sole way of indentifying your skill in battle - I'm sure there are quite a few dropship gunners with very high kdr's at the moment but I wouldn't want these tower hugging hippies in my squad!
tbh when a match finishes I don't bother too much with the score board. I am more interested in what points and isk I earnt. Perhaps that is because the current boards are so useless other than for stroking yourself over it. Kills, deaths, assists and war points should be displayed and maybe even add revives to the list and your position based on all these facets. |
Brick Schitthawse
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 08:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
With DUST being heavily focused on teamwork, the whole notion of K/D flies out the window and I agree that warpoints is the best way to track how well you do per game rather than K/D.
I prefer to play the support/heavy (love my forge gun) role and hold down objectives as best I can, and often come out low on SP or have a bad K/D, but rack up assist after assist and held/taken the objective, but get little reward and when people judge solely on K/D it may not show a true team player's potential if they don't give a rats about their K/D, but care about taking and holding the objective.
I don't think that Dust is necessarily a game about killing and hacking - it really depends on the mode - Ambush is solely about reducing the enemies clones to dominate the battefield, while skirmish is all about taking and holding objectives to win. It depends on your mindset and many who base solely on K/D won't care about the true need of the game mode.
Granted this is/will be far worse in pub/high sec games, while low sec/null space probably won't be as badly affected since they will be corp battles more than anything, but a corp should and hopefully will be judged first and foremost on the win/loss ratio, warpoints second not even worry about K/D. There are many,many other stats that could be tracked for players who want tracking.
Once you remove the players need for K/D then you will have a unique first person shooter that has real meaning behind the actions you do. |
Spazzeh BHD
Better Hide R Die
16
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Posted - 2012.07.05 09:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Make it like the warhawk point system and reward players who get stuff done overall. It would be a great idea to leave the KDR stat behind. NOTHING good ever comes from that. |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2012.07.05 14:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
I aprove this product and / or service. |
Draa Kisahi
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 14:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'd like to see an MVP vote system at the end of the round so the players can look at your post-game stats and reward whoever they think helped the most. |
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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 22:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
There is a thread in general discussion on this. KDR is important, perhaps more in dust than anyother game (who do you want to pay for their lost ISK 20/5 or 10/20). I'd just add war points as an extra column.
Link to that thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24648 |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 22:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Majin Sora wrote:Instead of focusing players standings on the team roster purely on K/D ratio they should also add a point system.
Instead of being rated on how many kills and deaths you have (like in COD) you would get graded on how well you played tactically and as a team (i.e. destroying dropships, tanks, cloning stations or hacking , saving other team mates, and resuplying.)
This way if your the type of player who spends half the match giving ground or air support your not left all the way at the bottom looking like you did nothing the entire match
or am i getting the wrong picture and this game is based purely on kills ? o.o
Damn no dislike button... If you had a high KDR you wouldn't be complaining. Not trying to be a d**k but its true, there are people who are really good at FPS but most are not. That doesn't mean you can't have fun or contribute just find what works for you. |
Brick Schitthawse
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 00:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:
Damn no dislike button... If you had a high KDR you wouldn't be complaining. Not trying to be a d**k but its true, there are people who are really good at FPS but most are not. That doesn't mean you can't have fun or contribute just find what works for you.
Therein lies the problem. People who are really good love braggin about their K/D, but as you say, most are not. It can be really demoralising going 4/10 most games, but not be acknowledged, that you hacked multiple objectives, supplies, took out fixed emplacements and so on. That information is not shown at all, and rather just your K/D which not be a true reflection on your contribution. I see myself as an Average FPS player, some days I rock, some days i suck really bad, but still maintain an 1.0K/D, but since I stopped caring about it, I enjoy the game a whole lot more.
The other issue with K/D, and it is rampant on the new map, is the stat padders who find a way to rack up huge kills and low deaths - namely the cheap option of chucking a dropship up on a tower and rocket down.
If people are looking at you and deciding whether to let you join their corp - the old must have k/d ratio of 1.5 and higher to join. All that tells is that you can outshoot an opponent, it doesn't tell me in an objective based game if you are capable of working as a team, you'll hold an objective and stay at that point to ensure it remains held for the whole game. Other factors need to come into play. Warpoints, Win/Loss, etc, in fact I'd go so far as to say that win/loss is far more important in a game like dust. Who would you hire someone with a 1.5 K/D but a .5 W/L or someone with a 1.5 W/L and .5 K/D?
The only mode where this becomes relevant is in Ambush, when it is solely about reducing your opponents clones as fast as you can. And also for eSport events that CCP have talked about. then your K/D will be relevant, other than that, it's a pointless stat that really doesn't matter, in games like DUST. |
Nick Phantom
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 02:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yeah I'd like to see more tracking over all. Such as.
Win/Loss ratio Average hacks per match Average Objectives Hacked and defended Amount of time spent near objectives Teammates Revived Average time spent in a vehicle
And a whole host of other thing so CORP's can look and see if they would fit into a spot. If you need a tank driver you would just be able to look and see he's good with a tank or logistics or if he would be a good medic. We need more information. |
Aglan Tahnis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 10:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
The problem I see with this: If leaderboards are ranked only based on WP and not based on kills this will not solve the problem, just invert it.
Currently you can gain WP by hacking objectives. You get kills for... killing enemys - obvious. The problem now is that people that are hacking arent rewarded with good leaderboard spots. Only the guys that are killing other people are rewarded with high spots.
If you invert this only the people who are hacking objectives will get high position in the leaderboard. The guys that are helping to get rid of enemys that are nearing an objective won't anymore. But this task is also important and should be rewarded as well. Otherwise I see a future where you won't be able to hack anything because you have no teammates "cleaning up" for you... why should they if leaderboard spot is the only thing they care about? Then they want to make the hack - not help you to get in a safe hacking position.
I don't say that it should stay as it is. But just inverting it doesn't solve the problem. It's just will be unfair in a different way. |
Brick Schitthawse
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2012.07.06 11:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Or you could go the whole hog and remove leaderboards completely and keep them for the arena games. Instead players are ranked on things done in game such as...
Most Kills Most Objectives Hacked Most Assists Most Vehicles Destroyed
And so forth. Maybe even give a reward for it. |
SonyStore checkIsBS
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.07.06 12:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Brick Schitthawse wrote:
If people are looking at you and deciding whether to let you join their corp - the old must have k/d ratio of 1.5 and higher to join. All that tells is that you can outshoot an opponent, it doesn't tell me in an objective based game if you are capable of working as a team, you'll hold an objective and stay at that point to ensure it remains held for the whole game. Other factors need to come into play. Warpoints, Win/Loss, etc, in fact I'd go so far as to say that win/loss is far more important in a game like dust. Who would you hire someone with a 1.5 K/D but a .5 W/L or someone with a 1.5 W/L and .5 K/D?
No stat is good enough to decide if you want to get someone in your corp or not. The only way is to play with them.
KDR as we know, can be boosted by only sniping, or camping totally ignoring objectives. WLR. Well I played yesterday for the first time. I played skirmish and I won my initial 3 games. I had absolutely no idea what I had to do, I was nowhere near an objective because I was trying to figure out the map. Later in the day I had at least 2 games that I joined while in progress. Everything was red on the map, the MCC was almost destroyed. In the first one I went and secured B alone, but of course my team lost.
Stats are stats. No matter what you put the focus on those that want to be up in leaderboards will only focus on improving that stat ignoring game objectives, including team killing if/when FF will be turned on to be the one to hack a console or to destroy a tank.
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Darky SI
232
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 16:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 KDR system hides the true heroes of the battles, just implement BF3 point system and we will be grateful |
crazy space
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
879
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 18:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
I was just saying this. I got 4 kills but 90,000 sp one match. Let me show that off. I'm a kick ass drop suit pilot, redpawning allies, using drop uplinks, hacking points, killing turrets, killing clone reserves.
imo it should be points per match average.
That way we can avoid high k/d players with zero low point average.meaning they never help the team. |
Dragon Grace
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 19:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
*ehem*
this is all well and good for K/D......but what about some kinda assists stat :) not for the scoreboard necessarily but for the private stats :D i like helping people you see :D
and the point system i like the idea of. kinda like Blacklight retribution. although with that...you see the points, kills, deaths and assists.
im thinking that we could have the points, and then press triangle (or something) and it break it down into what we did. a list of what the match points are made up of. kills, deaths, assists, hacks, checkpoint capture sucesses, vehicles destroyed, and maybe a total HP damage inflicted in the whole match too :) that would be an interesting statistic. but only display the stats that apply to you in that match.
keep the EVERYTHING stats for your own personal stats board in your quarters.
imagine after a year of playing you look at your stats "WOW i have Xkills, Xdeaths, Xassists, Xsuccess dropship runs.....etc.....and finally i have done XBILLION HP OF DAMAGE IN THIS GAME ALTOGETHER...IM A GOD" :D
a nice little fun stat. but i hope you understand my thoughts guys :) |
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counter logic
BetaMax.
42
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 23:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
+1 more emphasis on War Points than KDR, promote helping achieve tactical victory, not just mindlessly shooting the enemy.
We are immortal soldiers. An employer of immortal soldiers would be much less impressed with how well you kill other immortal soldiers. They would be more interested in how well you get the job done. |
Samuel Gadrion
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 23:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
Aglan Tahnis wrote:The problem I see with this: If leaderboards are ranked only based on WP and not based on kills this will not solve the problem, just invert it.
Kills give warpoints. Problem solved.
Battlefield has been doing this for years. |
Sora U'vasi
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.16 15:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
i really hate the K/D R maybe it's becouse i'm playing Triage |
Gcember
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
123
|
Posted - 2012.09.16 16:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Majin Sora wrote:Instead of focusing players standings on the team roster purely on K/D ratio they should also add a point system.
Instead of being rated on how many kills and deaths you have (like in COD) you would get graded on how well you played tactically and as a team (i.e. destroying dropships, tanks, cloning stations or hacking , saving other team mates, and resuplying.)
This way if your the type of player who spends half the match giving ground or air support your not left all the way at the bottom looking like you did nothing the entire match
or am i getting the wrong picture and this game is based purely on kills ? o.o
That is one of the best suggestions ever made on these forums. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.09.16 16:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
I support this completely. I could have sworn this was confirmed by devs, but can't find the post. |
knight of 6
26
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Posted - 2012.09.16 20:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
KDR sets the focus on the individual instead of the group. a system that compares how much you did for the group in comparison with others would be great. or simply publishing WP instead of KDR. at the end of the battle. |
Tarn Adari
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2012.09.16 20:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:KDR sets the focus on the individual instead of the group. a system that compares how much you did for the group in comparison with others would be great. or simply publishing WP instead of KDR. at the end of the battle. Exactly. I was in an ambush match today where the first on our team had 6 kills and the first on the other team had 19 kills...we won...I was eighth on our team and also head 6 kills...you can fill out the rest...teamwork is better than having a high individual bodycount... |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
315
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 00:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Darky SI wrote:+1 KDR system hides the true heroes of the battles, just implement BF3 point system and we will be grateful
This. Battlefield3 simply gives points to kills as well as capturing flags, healing and other team oriented support roles. Then it ranks you in the match by points. So if you are really good at healing and supplying ammo it will show. If you don't go for objectives but still get a crazy 40:5 KDR you will get points and probably be at the top of the scoreboard. Both parties are happy.
But yeah, it is nice playing BF3 and being MVP with 4 kills because I was the main person on the team bothering to capture flags and drop ammunition/health. |
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