DUST Search - Keyboard/Mouse

Geirskoegul wrote:

[...other quotes deleted, did you know theres a maximum depth of quotes allowed in this forum?...]
You're right, we're playing on consoles. Consoles which are nothing more than computers in a pretty box. Computers that can support keyboards and mice. Computers for which KB/M support has been promised and confirmed.

Isn't choice wonderful? You can choose to continue using an inferior control method, and if you think its inferiority is really messing up with your chances, you can choose to use a superior control scheme. If you're better with an inferior method (some are, no shame in that), you can keep using it, and guess what? 9 times out of 10, you'll do just fine against others, because your skill matters a hell of a lot more than your control scheme. The real difference with controls is one's familiarity and ability WITH them. The innate superiority of a mouse, as repeatedly explained, simply doesn't become a significant factor until everything else is identical between the two players.

I'm kind of curious what this "uber extreme ultra gamer remix KB/M" you're fantasizing about is, though. What would it do? Play for you? As it stands, I didn't see a method to turn off auto-aim on the controller (there's a reason controllers always have autoaim, they're not as fast or precise as mice for FPS games), so if anything using a KB/M would make it more about the player's skill (though admittedly autoaim can screw you up as well, by pulling you off of a headshot and aiming for center mass; hard enough to put crosshairs over a target with a horrible interface like a joystick, even worse if you're fighting the autoaim to go for a smaller target, I've had it happen, though not in Dust so far).

You can be perfectly competitive with a controller. I can't even think of what fancy keyboard or mouse could provide a significant advantage compared to any old one, except perhaps mice with a DPI toggle right on them (which you can bet your ass I'll be using mine; always nice to be able to get more precision for the long shots, and turn it back down for when I need speed). Even that, though, isn't a massive avantage, though it definitely is an advantage. There's really not a whole lot you can do in an FPS other than using a mouse with a high DPI and a cable (to minimize input latency), and maybe a DPI toggle. You can do just fine with a 5 quid mouse, though. There's nothing I can see from the keyboard side that could provide an advantage, except maybe the USB pass-through on most good keyboards, which could be useful for those with the slim PS3s that only have two USB ports.

Finally, the ignorance is the part of those expressing your views, in spite of reality. I'm quite familiar with the situation. At the end of the day, the whinging is almost amusing, because it it's so completely meritless.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.07.10 08:20:00 - [1] - Quote Raynor Ragna wrote: People who don't want KBM are just QQing. It'll be nice to have a new control scheme. KBM brings more entertainment to the genre. Our characters will do as we ask, when we ask, which helps keep the immersion. yup because spinning twelve times aroound the y-axis in a split second is immersive, and exactly how a character in real life would behave (real life as in - Make the game believable to a certain point to make said game immersive). I said it already and will say it again: You can test out KB/M on PS3, buy and play UT 3 on PS3 with KB/M. I have and it was a terrible experience, with lags and **** like that. And UT3 was made by Epic games, who know what they are doing, when it comes to FPS and KB/M. So if not even Epic Games could make KB/M a good thing on PS3, i'm not sure that CCP will (no offense CCP) get it done good enough to cater to all those KB/M Enthusiasts. IF however, the KB/M support on PS3 UT3 is proper for some out there, the fact doesn't change that there are combinations of KB/M do not work (my combination would be one of those), which means that the real possibility persists that many, many, many KB/M enthusiasts will come to the forum QQing, even if CCP doesn't put restrictions on the KB/M.
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.07.15 22:53:00 - [2] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: ROIZENGH wrote: If this does get KB/M controlls it would **** up things for console gamers, the difference on the control you get is just to big, lets face it you a console player wont last to a KB/M player Except this has been thoroughly and repeatedly disproven, and we ARE getting KB/M. If you feel it would be too much for you to cope with you could always (GASP!) use a keyboard and mouse too, and then you too would have the ideal controls for an FPS, and the disadvantage of using a controller would disappear. You know what? ** ideal controls, your "adapt or die" method, we are playing on consoles so that we won't be bothered by the "ideal control mechanism for Egoshooters" so off and play with your lovely overpriced razer KB/M combo, which would most likely not even work properly on the ps3, on your pc. On a sidenote: I know that kb/m is coming, and i know we can't do anything about it, but your completely ignorant mindset, your blatantly KB/M gloryfying attitude makes me real mad. I'd like to see you when some boy comes and say:"Well Justin Beiber is singing the songs for Dust514 so you could either cope with it or (GASP!) by the ***** overpriced album and shut up" - In this case you couldn't do anything against beiber singing the songs but i am pretty sure it would be still annoying as hell with all those beliebers swarming all over the place. Worst case scenario: First everyone have to get KB/M to stay competitive, then they have to buy some overpriced elitist extreme gamer remix KB/M Combos to stay competitve. Best case scenario: KB/M support sucks hard so that KB/M elitists either rage quit and sell their PS3, or adapt to the DS3 / Move controller. (and i actually do believe this ones more probable, with all those extra drivers needed for any good mouse / keyboards).
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.07.16 00:08:00 - [3] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: [...other quotes deleted, did you know theres a maximum depth of quotes allowed in this forum?...] You're right, we're playing on consoles. Consoles which are nothing more than computers in a pretty box. Computers that can support keyboards and mice. Computers for which KB/M support has been promised and confirmed. Isn't choice wonderful? You can choose to continue using an inferior control method, and if you think its inferiority is really messing up with your chances, you can choose to use a superior control scheme. If you're better with an inferior method (some are, no shame in that), you can keep using it, and guess what? 9 times out of 10, you'll do just fine against others, because your skill matters a hell of a lot more than your control scheme. The real difference with controls is one's familiarity and ability WITH them. The innate superiority of a mouse, as repeatedly explained, simply doesn't become a significant factor until everything else is identical between the two players. I'm kind of curious what this "uber extreme ultra gamer remix KB/M" you're fantasizing about is, though. What would it do? Play for you? As it stands, I didn't see a method to turn off auto-aim on the controller (there's a reason controllers always have autoaim, they're not as fast or precise as mice for FPS games), so if anything using a KB/M would make it more about the player's skill (though admittedly autoaim can screw you up as well, by pulling you off of a headshot and aiming for center mass; hard enough to put crosshairs over a target with a horrible interface like a joystick, even worse if you're fighting the autoaim to go for a smaller target, I've had it happen, though not in Dust so far). You can be perfectly competitive with a controller. I can't even think of what fancy keyboard or mouse could provide a significant advantage compared to any old one, except perhaps mice with a DPI toggle right on them (which you can bet your ass I'll be using mine; always nice to be able to get more precision for the long shots, and turn it back down for when I need speed). Even that, though, isn't a massive avantage, though it definitely is an advantage. There's really not a whole lot you can do in an FPS other than using a mouse with a high DPI and a cable (to minimize input latency), and maybe a DPI toggle. You can do just fine with a 5 quid mouse, though. There's nothing I can see from the keyboard side that could provide an advantage, except maybe the USB pass-through on most good keyboards, which could be useful for those with the slim PS3s that only have two USB ports. Finally, the ignorance is the part of those expressing your views, in spite of reality. I'm quite familiar with the situation. At the end of the day, the whinging is almost amusing, because it it's so completely meritless. with overpriced ultra gamer remix kb/m i meant those "gamer" hardware by razer and co. you know the mice that costs 100+Gé¼ with exchangable weights and ergonomic thing? Oh wait you mentioned it (didn't read till the end when i wrote that) About the computer thing: i think sony have made their point clear that they don't want to have their console viewed as a computer (if you've been following the ps3 for some time you know what i mean). About choices: I chose to stand on the KB/M-destroys-Dust514-only-because-Devs-wanted-to-cater-to-the-CoD-PC-Elitists side, so i couldn't agree more with "choices are good". About Keyboard support: why is there no official Sony KB/M for PS3 available to buy yet (that mini keypad doesn't count)? You can say if i missed something like that. About the actual possibility to use KB/M on ps3: They added it mostly for communication (writing messages and stuff). If Sony wanted to support KB/M on games they would be actually selling their own mouse and keyboard, as there would be more than enough peoples buying it (me included, i admit that i am a bit of a fanboy when it comes to that). About the superiority complex: You do realize you are wasting about a good fourth of your text writing about things that could've been summarized in one short sentence? About your DPI toggle: Do you had to install a driver on your pc so that your mouse works with the dpi toggle function? If the answer is yes you might see a possible problem with that for the PS3. What you dont get is: the obvious advantage of a console over PC. A levelled base. Hardware is nearly identical for everyone (slight differences when it comes to different PS3 versions), there are mainly two different input methods (DS3 and Move). This is by far the fairest environment you can wish for in competitive playing, adding KB/M adds thousands of additional input methods as every mouse and keyboard works different from another series (i think you know what i mean). I highly doubt that it will be possible to make every kb/m combo function properly with ps3. What i have done that you probably haven't: I have played a fps (UT 3) on PS3 using KB/M, lets just say KB/M hands down lost to DS3, it was sluggish as hell. Oh i should probably add, that i also play UT 3 on PC using KB/M (obviously), and that i do play fps on pc quite frequently - just to prevent you from thinking i am just a ps3 kiddie. like i said i chose to support anti kb/m (also because of my terrible KB/M UT3 PS3 experience) for Dust514, even though it is useless since already announced. Edit: About the ignorance: Weell lets say i wanted to prevent having to write an extremely long post when i could basically summarize it in 3 - 4 sentences decorated with a little cussing (the later it gets the more i like cussing). I'd be a little more careful with calling others ignorant-calling others ignorant might be interpreted as a sign of ignorance itself, add philosophy and you can't even use your reality statement, as every person have their own "reality" which just don't match with everyone elses.
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.07.16 02:30:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah that draft overwriting sucks hard (have already wrote about it as a bug in the bug section), so i am feeling with you there. Also had to cut down my post to meet the 6k char limit. . . The thousands of combinations thing stems from the UT 3 thing. There are KB/M that worked (have to trust that they knew what they wrote there) and there are KB/M that didn't (my for example, you see i can only say about what i experienced), so it is logical to think that there must be distinctive differences between different KB/M versions. Seems that i really missed out on something, although i cant just say that it is THE official keyboard, i mean we are talking about sony, the company that denies their console being a computer and stuff. They could have just thought: "Nah lets take the money" The levelling argument still stands, as every one had to start using a controller at one time. The PC market is just as unforgiving when its coming to fps, use a KB/M or die (i think most of the fps doesn't even support gamepads, although i can't testify it, since i currently can't reach the game boxes - and nope its not that i am too lazy to stand up and walk around in my home) , and as you said already there are mices that have clear advantage over others (with their dpi toggles-make ironsighting useless etc) - that your dpi toggle is hardware based and does not need additional drivers is good for you, bad for everyone else using anything other than a mouse with hardware based dpi-toggle. So you are actually in the Elitist of elitist group of my little thought experiment earlier. Even if they all (the masses) buy KB/M they will still have a disadvantage to you if they do not buy mices with toggleable DPI. and sorry pal but thats NOT what i'd call a levelled field. Let me exaggerate the point a bit: KB/M and DS3 are two completely different input methods ( i know move too, there are enough people complaining about move being added), one of which you yourself declared superior (i won't deny it straight forward, but i say comparing them isn't the wisest move). So you are pitting two input schemes against each other, one of which have an imminent advantage over the other. Is that levelled? i don't think so. You are punishing one faction for using the input method that came with the console and rewarding every PC adept. Every player have a certain skill level in KB/M and a certain Skill level in Gamepad (DS3), may the last be padded by aim assist as it is, everyone with gamepads get the same aim assist. So you have person a who can't handle the DS3, but is an adept at KB/M and put him against his friend who is an adept in DS3 but can't handle the KB/M. Person A just toss the DS3 and takes out his KB/M which have an imminent advantage over the DS3. Isn't it basically the same as saying: "I can't beat him in an argument, but i can beat him with my fist, for i trained my muscles while he trained his brain. My muscles are hurting more than his words that means his arguments are invalid, i win the argument" A quick search on google didn't find any PS3 game that supported KB/M besides UT3, so we have the standard PS3 players who have played on the console for years honing their DS3 Skills, who might have never touched a KB/M for fps ever before. Then we have the PC players (maybe Eve players as you and maybe me although my single account is inactive) who have honed their KB/M skills, but might have never touched a DS3 before. Now the PC players who were crazy enough to buy a 300$ console for a f2p game are suddenly newbies once more, which they can't stand as they have played years and years on the pc. Lets stress this point. They went from their home platform onto another platform. Normally you'd say when in Rome do as the romans do, but not these people. They are suddenly arguing about that fps are meant to be played with KB/M forgetting, that it actually says: Fps on the PC are meant to be played with KB/M. Fps on consoles are meant to be played with gamepads. Now we have the console players who get their home turf squashed by whining PC Players, who sadly got what they wanted, which in turn now suddenly turns the console players into whiners from the PC Players view telling them, that they just have to buy a KB/M and adapt and everything will be ok. Hell you even said yourself, that it is the players choice to buy a kb/m if they can't cope with the KB/M users, when the KB/M users might have just needed to cope with the gamepad. Or in short: It does provide a level playing field. Its just not the PC playing field. Everyone sucks when they first use Gamepads. It's an accurate depiction of your skill with a gamepad. You're Gamepad skills are not your Keyboard skills. less keyboard skill is needed to overcome gamepad skill, meaning that top gamepad players will most likely loose to top Keyboard players. That doesn't make the keyboard players superior as they are using a different control scheme. I am aware that the same points can be used for DS3 vs Move. That doesn't justify pitting those three input methods into the same game. Dust514 was meant to be a console game, they created a completely different game from Eve to a completely different audience, yet mainly Eve/PC players who bought a console (just for this game) have flipped the bird to every other console gamer by forcing KB/M on Dust514-a console game for a reason. They are the intruders not the consoleros. who says that the ps3 system handling is enough to properly cater to the needs of a kb/m fps player? my needs weren't fullfilled by UT3. Well i thought that our "ignorant" part got quite philosphical (i mean its all about "who is ignorant? You or i for i called you ignorant") so i thought why not step up? It was my fault to bring that up anyway so i blew it up - same goes for the "better than you" its basically begging for philosophy. . . I cannot say against anything of the other things you wrote though.
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.07.16 02:34:00 - [5] - Quote Oh and we are basically arguing over the definition of levelled playing field. You say the more choices the better i say, same prerequisits for everyone. What is NOT philosophical about that? (not double post, the character limit of the previous post was reached)