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Tempus Paradoxium
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.06.29 18:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Most of the weapons lack that raw meaty feel everyone craves in shooting games, you want to feel like you're ripping into enemies with bolts of lighting, not splashing them with laser pointers.
The regular weapons for the most part are decent enough, the assault rifle feels about right, and the pistol is about what I expected compared to the assault rifle. There are many that fall quite short though, namely most projectile weapons that I've come across so far. Rockets shoot out with a pathetic little thump and most of the time you don't even see an impact blast, and if you do it feels more like a fart than an explosion. They don't have to do any more damage, they just need to feel like they're doing something; If I hit something with a rocket, I'd like to see some flames in the blast, and a nice thick sound to accompany it.
A lot of the issues arise from the sound choices for weapons, they're largely too high pitched and have little bass, but there is also the issue of animations and impacts. Explosions should rip up some debris or rock the screen a bit if they hit nearby. If you hit a vehicle or a person, I'd like to see that reflected in some small way, at least a light rocking or slight knockback. Something that makes it feel a bit more visceral, perhaps more so as shields get lower you see/feel more of an effect. These days, if an explosion goes off near me in a game I expect to feel some sort of disorientation, such as ringing, minor screen shaking/warping, and briefly muffled sound. These are all great techniques for immersion.
I would also like to see some manner of ironsights, even if it's simplistic like the turrets. It helps you feel more connected to your player when your gun is somewhat visible, as opposed to the disconnect of a blank screen with crosshairs (scoped weapons like sniper rifles being an exception). This is a pretty minor concern, but would be nice.
The knife... well, the knife is pretty horrible all around. When you're running around in futuristic power armor swiping at people with a little blade it just feels silly, and certainly isn't satisfying. It felt silly in both CoD and MAG and they were regular people. If I'm going to knife someone in futuristic armor I expect it to be more of a takedown move like battlefield 3 or Halo Reach. I humbly request you try to transition the knife to more of a sneak attack/takedown move and less of an 'oh god there's a guy in front of me, lets both run in circles flailing our knives', as that isn't satisfying gameplay. Battlefield 3 had some of the best knife kills of any fps I've played, whether it was you knifing someone else or you yourself being knifed; it always felt satisfying and I never felt frustrated when being killed by one. When you see a knife plunged into the target as opposed to swiped across the chest it feels like a much more acceptable kill. |
Blue Razgriz
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.06.29 19:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tempus Paradoxium wrote:
The knife... well, the knife is pretty horrible all around. When you're running around in futuristic power armor swiping at people with a little blade it just feels silly, and certainly isn't satisfying. It felt silly in both CoD and MAG and they were regular people. If I'm going to knife someone in futuristic armor I expect it to be more of a takedown move like battlefield 3 or Halo Reach. I humbly request you try to transition the knife to more of a sneak attack/takedown move and less of an 'oh god there's a guy in front of me, lets both run in circles flailing our knives', as that isn't satisfying gameplay. Battlefield 3 had some of the best knife kills of any fps I've played, whether it was you knifing someone else or you yourself being knifed; it always felt satisfying and I never felt frustrated when being killed by one. When you see a knife plunged into the target as opposed to swiped across the chest it feels like a much more acceptable kill.
I would have to second this notion. The knife is basically useless! I came behind a guy and used the knife and nothing happened, don't even think I received a hit marker for the swipe. He turned around and proceeded to kill me. It needs a good buffing thats for sure. a Cinematic would be nice to accompany it as well. Since it is rare you find yourself behind a player in DUST, why not make it worthwhile? |
Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
191
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Posted - 2012.06.29 19:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
there is a skill that increase your knife damage by 10% per level, then there are biotics giving you more damage bonus. the knife is not a one hit kill weapon in this game and i love it. |
Tempus Paradoxium
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 19:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:there is a skill that increase your knife damage by 10% per level, then there are biotics giving you more damage bonus. the knife is not a one hit kill weapon in this game and i love it. This is true, you can upgrade the knife to become more powerful, but I still feel it's unsatisfying. My concerns lie with the actual mechanics of the knife, and not so much it's damage potential. Even if you could upgrade it to be one hit kills, the knife gameplay in it's current state would still be unfun (to me), in fact probably even more so.
It's quite similar to the knife mechanic in MAG, if you've played that. I personally didn't like the system there either. |
Blynd Reaper
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.06.29 20:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would love to see the "cinematic " style knifing in this, it's fine to be a 1 hit kill, but it has to be done in a way that makes you earn it. Not cod style, I don't want people being able to run into a hail of gunfire to tap me with a knife and move on, but the assassination style that bf3 has(sorry to keep pulling other game names in) is a very satisfying way to do it. Like it was said earlier, I never felt cheated when I was killed by knife in bf3. He moved across a huge area, snuck up behind me, unnoticed by myself or any teammates, rolled me over and jammed a knife in my throat, kudos.
I also agree with the original poster on the weapons, the large weapons don't seem to have that shock and awe. And the don't really effect the player in anything but health. If I fire a projectile or lmg, I want to feel like I just fired one of those, and I want my target to feel it too. Suppression is one of the best new additions to fps, it adds immersive ness and strategy. I hope to see some of this being tested in the beta, I feel it will add a lot to an already great game. |
jecs90
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.06.29 20:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
So weak that i didnt know i was firing!!...lol . I think they did it that way because they created the leveling tool so for now get fun firing bunnies and unicorns!!! Eve rocks!! |
ILL-MITCH
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.06.29 21:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seconding that guns feel (and sound) like pea shooters. And what is the purpose of the knife if not a 1 hit kill? Why have it? Running up to someone, closing the distance, is a risk to take. When I get in someone's face, the reward should be a melee kill. Not a scratch that gets me shot in the face. |
Xaero 514
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
324
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Posted - 2012.06.29 23:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
A well thought out and constructive post, OP, I agree 100%.
The knife is a bit rubbish. As you've already said, it's not the damage output, it's the 'swishy swishyness' of it. I slashed a sniper in the back earlier and that was great, but that was mainly due to the fact that I hate snipers and I go to great lengths to make sure they get a right good teabagging. That's another strory, though.
If face to face and it's a straight up knife fight then swishy swishy is acceptible, but from behind a knife kill should carry with it a cool execution of some sorts. Halo: Reach, Battlefield 3 and (for the xbox/EA haters) Killzone 3 all have them. Sneaking up behind someone and insta-killing them is a cheap and easy kill, but there's something so satisfying about taking a man from behind.... er.... I mean stealth killing a dude.
As for the sounds, they are a bit on the wimpy side. I'm using the CreoDron Breach shizzle at the minute and like all the breach rifles thet go 'clack! clack! clack!' They sound a bit poor if I'm honest. Everything else goes 'pew! pew! pew!'
I really hope that all issues brought up in this thread can be addressed. |
Zekerov
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.06.29 23:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tempus Paradoxium wrote:Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:there is a skill that increase your knife damage by 10% per level, then there are biotics giving you more damage bonus. the knife is not a one hit kill weapon in this game and i love it. This is true, you can upgrade the knife to become more powerful, but I still feel it's unsatisfying. My concerns lie with the actual mechanics of the knife, and not so much it's damage potential. Even if you could upgrade it to be one hit kills, the knife gameplay in it's current state would still be unfun (to me), in fact probably even more so. It's quite similar to the knife mechanic in MAG, if you've played that. I personally didn't like the system there either.
Nova Machete pls. |
Raynor Ragna
266
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Posted - 2012.06.30 00:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
There needs to be a sound thats made when you hit someone with a knife... If there is, I've never successfully knifed anyone. |
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Kitt 514
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 00:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
ILL-MITCH wrote:Seconding that guns feel (and sound) like pea shooters. And what is the purpose of the knife if not a 1 hit kill? Why have it? Running up to someone, closing the distance, is a risk to take. When I get in someone's face, the reward should be a melee kill. Not a scratch that gets me shot in the face.
No, no, no, no, no.
OHC knives are rediculous. This is not meant to be an arcade shooter like COD.
Think of how knives are used in modern combat... they're not. Now put a metric ton of armour on our enemies, and run up to them flailing a knife.
No ty. |
Tempus Paradoxium
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 00:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kitt 514 wrote:ILL-MITCH wrote:Seconding that guns feel (and sound) like pea shooters. And what is the purpose of the knife if not a 1 hit kill? Why have it? Running up to someone, closing the distance, is a risk to take. When I get in someone's face, the reward should be a melee kill. Not a scratch that gets me shot in the face. No, no, no, no, no. OHC knives are rediculous. This is not meant to be an arcade shooter like COD. Think of how knives are used in modern combat... they're not. Now put a metric ton of armour on our enemies, and run up to them flailing a knife. No ty. Which is why some of us are suggesting it be more like BF3, which is in fact generally how knives are used. Not slashing at people's armor. Maybe the best of both worlds? flailing around from the front, but a kill animation from the back? I'm not fond of the idea of a slash to the chest killing anything. |
ILL-MITCH
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.06.30 22:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kitt 514 wrote:ILL-MITCH wrote:Seconding that guns feel (and sound) like pea shooters. And what is the purpose of the knife if not a 1 hit kill? Why have it? Running up to someone, closing the distance, is a risk to take. When I get in someone's face, the reward should be a melee kill. Not a scratch that gets me shot in the face. No, no, no, no, no. OHC knives are rediculous. This is not meant to be an arcade shooter like COD. Think of how knives are used in modern combat... they're not. Now put a metric ton of armour on our enemies, and run up to them flailing a knife. No ty. You make a good point. But then I have to ask you WHY ON EARTH HAVE A FLIPPIN' KNIFE IN THIS GAME AT ALL?
That's my point. :)
If you have it in, the risk/reward is getting close enough to someone to do mega damage. If you don't have it in, fine. That's ok, too. |
Daeron I Targaryen
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 22:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
this is arguably one of the most important things in a shooter. there needs to be a sense of power within the sounds that your gun makes. you want to feel like you're really carrying death with you whenever you fire your gun. right now the sounds of the assault rifle just sounds like im tapping a wooden stick against a plastic watergun. |
Renzo Kuken
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
369
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 22:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zekerov wrote:Tempus Paradoxium wrote:Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:there is a skill that increase your knife damage by 10% per level, then there are biotics giving you more damage bonus. the knife is not a one hit kill weapon in this game and i love it. This is true, you can upgrade the knife to become more powerful, but I still feel it's unsatisfying. My concerns lie with the actual mechanics of the knife, and not so much it's damage potential. Even if you could upgrade it to be one hit kills, the knife gameplay in it's current state would still be unfun (to me), in fact probably even more so. It's quite similar to the knife mechanic in MAG, if you've played that. I personally didn't like the system there either. Nova Machete pls.
pfft
light saber...make it so |
Tyrone Ryker
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 23:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Daeron I Targaryen wrote:this is arguably one of the most important things in a shooter. there needs to be a sense of power within the sounds that your gun makes. you want to feel like you're really carrying death with you whenever you fire your gun. right now the sounds of the assault rifle just sounds like im tapping a wooden stick against a plastic watergun.
Definitely agree. The guns need to feel more powerful and SOUND more powerful. I also dislike the ADS for the regular assault rifle. Its good for the submachine gun and the pistol but the assault refile's ADS is terrible and really hard to aim with. Most of my kills end up coming from me hip firing because its much easier to be accurate.
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Kieth Leola
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 23:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Make the knife more powerful and give it a glowing edge. Call it a plasma cutter or something.
They could add some screen shake when explosives go off nearby, especially in vehicles. |
Zarukei
1
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Posted - 2012.07.01 00:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
I don't think the knife should be more powerful, because It is hard to even hit someone with it with how stamina works. Sometimes I wondered why I cant knife someone just to find out that My stamina was just low or something. |
Nick Phantom
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 00:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
The knife is overall fine for me. Besides you have to slash through shields and armor just be glad they didn't make it 5 swipes for even the thinnest armor.
The REAL problem with knives is they aren't available when you need them. Ya know when your outta ammo and the guy only has 5% left on his armor bar... The reload animation CANCELS out the knife so no matter how hard you try to knife that guy to finish him off you can't.
Knives are a finishing weapon not a swipe through shields and armor one time and get a kill.
Knives need to be available and cancel out the reload if you push down to knife someone. I've probably lost 20+ kills because of this... |
Matthias Blackclover
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 00:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
The sounds of the current guns could solely be due to the ammo type that they are. I do believe that there will plasma rounds, blaster rounds, etc. I would think that each ammo type would have a different feel and probably a different sound. I for one feel that the knife makes no sense in this game as well, but mostly for selfish reasons. Too many times I am drilling a guy and like an idiot I flail my knife like an idiot only to die in the process. I'm sure I've made many people LOL while watching me shoot them one second to swinging my knife around like a fool at nothing the next. This happens due to my fat thumbs toggling the damn right stick like a button. I hope I will be able to map the knife to a different button in the future. |
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Tempus Paradoxium
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 00:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Matthias Blackclover wrote: The sounds of the current guns could solely be due to the ammo type that they are. I do believe that there will plasma rounds, blaster rounds, etc. I would think that each ammo type would have a different feel and probably a different sound. I for one feel that the knife makes no sense in this game as well, but mostly for selfish reasons. Too many times I am drilling a guy and like an idiot I flail my knife like an idiot only to die in the process. I'm sure I've made many people LOL while watching me shoot them one second to swinging my knife around like a fool at nothing the next. I would have to counter your point and say that none of the weapons have to sound weak, just because they're energy weapons or whatever. You can make any type of ammo sound and feel powerful, and yet still distinguishable from other types. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
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Posted - 2012.07.01 00:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nova Knife in another thread wrote: The knives are amazingly useful if you put some practice in, and actually level up the skill. Here's a hint. Knife your teammates to watch for the shield marker to get a better idea of the range, if you're not sure. The knife swings from the right, arcing up left. Generally you can hit people slightly off screen to your right, but not your left because of the way the arc swings. So, when you're strafe dancing with someone, circle left around them so they are always on your right if you plan to stab them :)
As far as damage goes, it's perfect. With the level 5 knife handling skill, and 3x prototype damage modifiers for melee you can get it to the point where you can instakill almost any prototype nonheavy except with the heaviest tanks.. Heavy suits die in two swings. The downside is You need to fit two CPU enhancers to do this, considering the melee damage mods are high slots, most suits will have pretty much no tank to make this fit work. Even without damage modifiers at level V handling you can almost instantly gib someone with a weaker fit. Standard assaults will go to like 15% armor if memory serves.
Though, for those who are dedicated in the endeavor will find melee very deadly and quite workable in its current iteration, if you practice. I do agree the range could use a tad of an increase though.
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