DUST Search - FoxGÇÖs thoughts on the Fitting System

byte modal wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Russel Moralles wrote:

So. I'm gonna ask you this Mr. Pokey.

Have you played the most recent build maps of nova?
Are you familiar with all the game modes in nova?
How do you know the battle progression isn't far more involved than the flat game modes dust had?

Just curious.

Of course not. I'm not making assumptions one way or the other.

I guess I missed a lot.

Of course you are---at least as much as others assume what they do. There is little to go on so people speculate based on experience, history, and bias. Someone may assume a negative and trend one direction as a result. You counter with the assumption that that trend may not be true and redirect. It is the same argumentative tactic, only from the opposite bias, which takes your trajectory down another trend.

I don't know, but I think A. - assumption.
You don't know, and I think B. - also assumption. Claiming that someone does not know, does not negate the implied assumption that A is wrong. It's still assuming because neither person "knows."

Unless you do know. That changes the playing field though.

Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8152	Posted - 2017.06.02 16:49:00 - [1] - Quote I wanted to discuss what worked with the fitting system in DUST and why it worked, as well as examining how to make the that fitting system more accessible to new or less analytical players. I realize that it looks like CCP is taking a different approach in Nova, but the underlying principles of what interests players and what turns players off has not changed, so I expect this discussion should be relevant to the new system as well. The Fitting system in DUST was complex. Complexity in a game can be good or bad. A complex task that forms a mini game that has relevance to the larger game can be a lot of fun and add a lot to the game. But a complex task that the player does not find to be fun can be a real chore, or can even be a source of confusion and anxiety. For analytical players the fitting system in DUST was one of the primary factors that set DUST a step above other FPS games. For this type of player the challenge of balancing the two resources and coming up with the perfect fit which got the most out of both to make the most optimized fits, was a really fun challenge. It was so satisfying when you finally found a way to fit that weapon you want, by changing your grenades, sidearm, and one of your modules to free up that extra 5 PG that you needed. It also gave you something very entertaining to do when waiting to form a squad or other times when you were not in a match for whatever reason. But I also understand that DUST players were not all highly analytical spreadsheet wizards. There were people who found the fitting system confusing or tedious. These were people who would ask their friends what to fit, or ask on the forum, and then just go with that. For these people the fitting system was just a chore they had to do before they could play. I think the answer to this dichotomy is to facilitate the dynamic of sharing fits that already happened naturally. Allow the Analytical people to share their masterpieces more easily, and allow the less analytical people a fitting system which is just plug and play. Allow players to share/trade/sell fits. Make these fits plug & play if the player has the skills to use them. Give new players a set of fits to start with, and have other fits available on the market. Then give players the ability to make their own custom fits, save them, and then sell them on the market, or send them to other players. There should also be a mechanic to display a list of requirements for a fit to be used and an indication of which prerequisites are not met, so when the player opens a fit they canGÇÖt use, they know what they need to train to be able to use the fit. Maybe even have a button to automatically add the necessary fitting skills to your training plan, so a player can buy the fit they want to use, press the GÇ£Train for ThisGÇ¥ button, and then not have to think about their skill training again until they can use the fit. Maybe also have a flag in the market listing to indicate if a fit is new player accessible, requires moderate skill training, or requires advanced training. Make a system where the Analytical players can have fun crunching numbers and optimizing their fits, and the Run & Gun players who just want to get into the action can just buy fits that suit their needs so they donGÇÖt have to get bogged down in the details. Make a system which is both simple and complex at the same time, so it meets every playerGÇÖs needs. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8154	Posted - 2017.06.02 17:33:00 - [2] - Quote I reference the market simply as an easy way to share fits with strangers. If someone is the first in their group of friends to start playing Nova, and they have not made friends with any Analytical players yet, they may not know anyone willing to share a fit with them, but they will always have the market. The type of people who like making fits, are probably more interested in showing off their fitting skills more than making money, so I expect there would be lots of good fits available as a reasonable price. To further enhance the system, it would be nice to have a rating system where you can rate any fit you own on a scale of 1 to 5 stars. Then the average ratting of the fit, and the number of players who rated it, would appear for that fit anywhere it is viewed, including on the market, making it easier for people to choose good fits. The author of the fit should also be displayed in the fitting screen. So with the author name, the average rating, and the number of people who rated the suit all displayed, it gives prestige to anyone who can come up with a popular fit, while at the same time allowing people who buy their fits to make informed purchasing decisions. With this in mind, fitting authors won't set their price too high, because then no one will buy their fits and rate them. Of course they may raze the price once a fit is highly rated, but that is a reflection of value, which is appropriate. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8154	Posted - 2017.06.02 17:47:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: as fits are contextual to a Dropsuit, sorry to say, I like the intent, but a lot of the core concepts of saved fittings, market, skillbooks, training aren't going to be as they are in EVE nor DUST for that matter. If we want to explore sharing, i would think "real" sharing from a corp or a friend are more applicable, as borrowing one dropsuit from a friend for a day, or that kind of thing. If you have found a different system which allows deep dives for us Analytical players, while also providing simple solutions for new players and those who donGÇÖt want to do chores before jumping into the action, then that is fine with me. Just promise me you have not dumbed it all down to cater to people with short attention spans. The idea of physically sharing fitted suits sounds interesting. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8242	Posted - 2017.08.31 19:08:00 - [4] - Quote byte modal wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Russel Moralles wrote: So. I'm gonna ask you this Mr. Pokey. Have you played the most recent build maps of nova? Are you familiar with all the game modes in nova? How do you know the battle progression isn't far more involved than the flat game modes dust had? Just curious. Of course not. I'm not making assumptions one way or the other. I guess I missed a lot. Of course you are---at least as much as others assume what they do. There is little to go on so people speculate based on experience, history, and bias. Someone may assume a negative and trend one direction as a result. You counter with the assumption that that trend may not be true and redirect. It is the same argumentative tactic, only from the opposite bias, which takes your trajectory down another trend. I don't know, but I think A. - assumption. You don't know, and I think B. - also assumption. Claiming that someone does not know, does not negate the implied assumption that A is wrong. It's still assuming because neither person "knows." Unless you do know. That changes the playing field though. Pokey's speculations are based on his reading of every available scrap of information about NOVA posted on this forum and on every other site, compounded by the insights gained through accumulating all of this information in a single blog post on the Biomass Website. Basically, Pokey knows as much about NOVA as anyone who has not signed an NDA can, and unlike those guys who have signed NDA, Pokey is free to talk about what he knows and to speculate. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8242	Posted - 2017.08.31 19:22:00 - [5] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: Wow Fox! You're still at it. Deep brother! I just wish I knew where they are in development and their current plan, so I could make suggestions based on where they are now, rather than making suggestions based on where they were two years ago, augmented my scraps of info here and there hinting at where they might be going. But since I have not signed any NDA I will just have to wait until they get things to where they are ready to announce what they are doing, and then I can start from there and tailor new suggestions to the new reality. At this point all we can really do is highlight the higher level themes that we appreciated in DUST, and hope that CCP chooses to address those themes in NOVA, even if they tackle them using a new approach. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.