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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13510
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Posted - 2016.06.07 01:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
The one thing I see everyone here forgetting is to ask one of the simplest, yet biggest, question of all when it comes to Nova maps and PC gameplay.
What do you look for in the core design of every single map and in every gameplay of the game itself?
When it comes to maps, the core design to me is being able to see whether you are the attacker or the defender. In Dust 514 there was no clear indication if you are the attacker. Both sides had an MCC and both had an end goal. Sure, the match roster would tell me, but I never felt like I was defending or attacking an outpost.
Blizzard's Overwatch addressed this with the way how the maps are laid out and how certain objectives behave. Fights where you had to escort a vehicle to its destination is a very clear example of that.
The maps in Project Nova should do the same. In fact, Project Nova needs to take inspiration from one of Dust 514's oldest game modes. Dust 514 use to have a game mode where there was NO mistake who was attacking and who was defending. We call it "Skirmish 1.0" and many of us who played it still want to see it again.
Skirmish 1.0 was the game mode that required the most amount of teamwork, featured a dynamic redline that shifted based on the progress of the attackers which introduced the concept of a match that went through stages, it had a moving MCC, and the defenders started the match with all objectives hacked in their favor. The attackers had to first hack or destroy the defense relays before their advancing MCC's shields were depleted. Otherwise their MCC would be forced to retreat thus meaning a defeat for the attackers. If they succeeded in overcoming the defense relays, the redline would move back to finally expose the defender's home base which was an outpost with all of the objectives located there. At this point, the attackers had to continuously maintain the null cannons from firing at their MCC long enough for the MCC to arrive at the defender's outpost and dock before its armor is depleted.
Unfortunately Skirmished 1.0 didn't last because it was poorly coded into the game with the way how the MCC had to move across the map and because player-run corps, private squads and chat channels never existed which would have made coordinating a lot of easier for both sides. But overall, everyone knew which side they were on and everyone was encouraged to at least try to coordinate.
As a side note, it is possible we may have seen one of the effects of skirmish 1.0 when playing acquisition not too long ago. Remember when people reported seeing the redline change every time the objective changed position during acquisition mode? It's possible that the legacy code used to run with skirmish 1.0 was somehow bleeding over to acquisition when it shouldn't be doing that by simply shifting the redline when certain conditions were unwittingly being met. But since now Dust is dead and so is its legacy code, CCP now has a chance to recreate Skirmish 1.0 but without the technical mess it had. This is a great opportunity to carry over what made Dust truly fun in the past into Project Nova.
Radio chatter on the ship's comms could be used to help with that. As I pass through the ship's bridge it would be nice to hear the radio chatter between two Caldari characters relaying bits of information back and forth giving either the attacking player or the defending player and idea on how things are going in the match. A Caldari commander might be heard saying that the defenders are almost done dealing with the armed incursion of the ship. At which point the attackers could use this as a means to motivate themselves to push hard as that is telling them that the match is almost over.
I have seen this being used in Blizzard's Overwatch in which the heroes would say something that would motivate the player to push hard when the going gets tough or when its almost over to get that last hoorah.
The radio chatter could also be use to tell a story about what's going on out there beyond the hull of the ship. I remember when the fight for Caldari Prime started where players in both Eve Online and Dust 514 were fighting in the same system to determine who would have control of the planet. I think in the end the Caldari won out. Imagine if we were fighting inside the Titan in the moments before it started to fall from space and crash onto the planet's surface and we hear the Caldari commander on the radio chatter hinting that critical systems across the Manhattan-sized ship are failing. Meanwhile you look out the window and see the Gallente and Caldari fleets fighting each other over the planet.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13511
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Posted - 2016.06.07 03:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP LogicLoop wrote:Avallo Kantor wrote:I like to imagine that once NOVA Mercs become a big deal, larger ships will start being installed with clone bays (inactive clones) that can be onlined when boarders arrive.
I imagine such a clone bays being in various strategic locations on the ship, heavily guarded, with a more central location on the ship. I imagine a setup that gives the imagination view to rows and rows of clones in vats, and maybe a "Iron-Man" style armoring station where a clone could be spat out, armored up, and spat into the area. All very clean and fortified.
This would be in contrast to the boarders where the pods have just breached in, a look of havoc and rush that makes the boarding area look frantic, and out of order.
As to voice overs, I think the attackers should have special VO for the attackers, from a commander giving updates, orders, etc. Maybe have the map change slightly in regards to the attackers gaining objectives vs defenders reclaiming objectives.
Lights going from "standard" to "emergency" lighting (if dynamic lighting is possible), Engine sounds going off or on, or even other minor effects changing. (For example out of a window you could see guns firing, or not firing based on who controls the hardpoint)
Edit:
How dynamic do you think maps will be? Will they be able to having "moving parts" as it were?
If you have any plans for moving parts what do you think of doing in a broad sense? [Lighting effects, Sound effects, all the way up to parts of the map actually moving] Too early to tell how dynamic. But dynamic is certainly being discussed. I like the lighting suggestion too. Should help with that sense of urgency. Unreal 4 supports dynamic lighting of course, it just all depends on what it will cost in terms of performance. Being on PC does give us a lot more room than before.
Excellent!
What do you think about Skirmish 1.0? Is there any possibility of making that work in a ship setting where doors open or close depending on the outcome of the battle?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13513
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Posted - 2016.06.07 21:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:How much is team size a factor in map creation, and to what degree would it differ the map?
Also do you plan to have any continuation of the "Socket" system from DUST? I remember when first hearing about it that it could, long term, have huge possibilities for nearly infinite map variations. On the downside, I realize that such customizability takes away from a well designed overall map experience, if you have to design each socket to be potentially independent parts of a larger map.
I barely paid any attention to the variance in the sockets in every battle. Even if I did, it hardly mattered to me. I feel it was better to just save the server processing power and have us fight in static maps where the sockets don't change.
Besides, since we're likely to be fighting inside ships that have standardized internal structures within them it stands to reason that we will be fighting in very static maps. It would be very hard to implement a socket system for the interior of a ship. It's better to make static maps that represent different parts of the ship. From there you can each generate 3 separate battles across the 3 parts of that ship or perhaps have one seemless battle transitioning from the hangar to the bridge and then to the powerplant depending on the progress of the battle.
Also, since we're going into ships I now feel it is high time to get rid of the redline. Instead parts of the interior of the ship should act as physical barriers that just block the player from entering. For example: sliding doors sealed by a hack that occurred just as the attackers initially boarded, collapsed catwalks, force fields that the ship itself deployed to seal off parts of the ship that have suffered a hull breach, etc. I shouldn't be seeing a redline inside a ship. They are redundant in such an environment anyways.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13516
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Posted - 2016.06.08 21:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:@LogicLoop are you designing the social spaces as well? For a F2P game Nova needs somewhere to show of your gear and I want to see the other side of the mercs quarters! There is no other side... That door's an airlock straight into space!
It was Hodor the whole time.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13516
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Posted - 2016.06.09 02:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote: while i agree with the whole ship battles being the same maps, based on the ship they are in, what about ground battles? Static maps for those would be a waste, unless the maps and number of people were reminiscent of how MAG was.
If CCP could make it so Nova has ground battles similar to how MAG was it would be amazing. Make it so the defender is actually defending an objective and not just 5 control points.
I'm not so sure about the planets. Again, it doesn't matter to me whether it's static or ever changing like how we saw with Dust's socket system. But if CCP can pull off the latter without compromising performance, then all the better I guess.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13519
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 21:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:
I think one of the biggest things that washes down CCP's socket system for you is the fact that it really didn't seem to have any tangible effect in most games. Most games had the main facility that would pretty much always be on the same terrain, and off in the outskirts of the map you had little outposts that would occasionally change. If CCP could find a better way to implement the socket idea. Make more maps 'more' modular, Kind of like what someone (maybe you) mentioned above with players having customizable ship map designs that would make it a bit more important for you.
[...]
OF COURSE performance should be the first thing to consider. CCP needs to make NOVA feel just as smooth and fluid as any of the AAA shooters today. Or at least as smooth as other shooters like CSGO, TF2, and PS2. Bugs need to be kept to a minimum and FPS needs to be a steady 30 FPS MINIMUM (30 is the absolute bottom out) with a 60 FPS optimal. They need to hammer that out because those issues were some of the biggest game breaking problems for so many of the new players back when the game was initially released.
That being said, Im happy to see logicloop being so active on the forums. Just the small amount of posts he's been making, I feel, has made a big impact on a lot of peoples mindsets for the new game!
I agree. That might be why it didn't matter to me. And it didn't help that the large, medium, and small sockets were static as well meaning they didn't have any moving parts. No cranes moving, no doors opening or closing, etc. There was just no way to effect the map other than to just blob the opponents and spam uplinks all over the place.
As for the stability of Project Nova, CCP Rattati and CCP Frame mentioned on at least one of the interviews that they are aiming for a consistent 60 CCP Frames per second. And that is just for starters. It is extremely likely that it's because most PC players expect at least 60 frames per second on the games they play especially competitive PC gamers who see that every little frame counts.
And finally, I'm also happy to see CCP Logicloop back in action.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13519
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 22:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:HOLY CRAP! I JUST HAD A GREAT IDEA FOR NOVA! AND FOR EVE ONLINE!
One of the biggest issues for EVE online is how much money is created vs how much money is lost in the game. Basically, prices have been inflating massively the last couple of years in EVE. This idea is, in my opinion, a potentially good and innovative way to create an isk sink in EVE while also providing a dynamic and tangible eve/nova link that (in theory) shouldn't be too hard to create.
Everyone who plays eve knows about concord and how they absolutely decimate anyone who breaks the rules in high sec. Depending on the local security level, Concord will show up in 30 seconds max, and immediately incapacitate your ship via EWAR, then one shot it a second later.
So, what if instead of destroying the eve player's ship, Concord just EWAR's it then forces it to warp off to some secret CCP wormhole or wherever and then promptly puts a contract up on EVE-Nova for Nova mercs to land on the ship and infiltrate/secure it. Who do the Nova Mercs fight against? Easy answer, one of two things, Either NPC Drones that can be "on board security" for these ships, OR other Nova Mercs that the NPC Pirate factions (like angel cartel or serpentis) contracted to also invade/secure the ship from Concord. Heck, EVE players could even create their own contracts to capture back their own ships.
So why would this benefit EVE players? If Concord is able to secure the ship from the onboard defenses/competing factions, they can then take that ship and re-sell it on the player market VIA an open bidding system/contract with the name of the old ship and its former owner being public information. This benefits eve players because pirates might be able to buy back their ships from Concord for sentimental reasons, or it might give unique trading opportunities to other players looking to make extra isk. All the while, CCP creates a giant isk sink because of how much money people would be paying into Concord or other NPC factions.
So why would Nova players benefit from this? It gives them a tangible effect on EVE. It could be used as a way to get loyalty points for NPC factions. It could also be used as a good social tool between EVE/Nova players. It also checks the box of Nova players boarding EVE ships and capturing them that so many people wanted WITHOUT the technical/game mechanic issues involved with having all of that done live during a space battle. If all of this occurs in the "safe" space of an non playable area where only CCP and NPC factions can see then it creates a much easier way to pull this off from a game development point of view.
THE ONLY drawback to this idea that I can see is that CCP would need to design a map for pretty much every ship. One way or another Im positive every type of ship in game has been destroyed (or hopefully one day captured) by Concord. So theres really not a lot of ways around that. Lore/mechanically Concord would just have to say "were not interested in aqcuiring these types of ships yet" to explain lore wise why there aren't any maps for most ships right away, but thats a completely different topic.
Anyway, what do you guys think of that idea? I know I wrote a lot but the idea really is a simple one. It seems like a perfect way to have ship boardings/ captures while avoiding all of the giant gameplay implications having a ship boarding feature in a real EVE battle would create. Its also potentially a massive ISK sink for EVE as a whole which is always welcome in my opinion.
Interesting idea indeed. Although I think I will have to disagree on the part about too much ISK going into the Eve Online economy. CCP just recently posted their Monthly Economic Report for May 2016.
Source: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-may-2016/
Pay particular attention to this one graph. http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70343/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png
If I understand this graph correctly, the ISK sink is actually bigger than the faucet. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. So I don't think Eve is suffer from inflation.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13520
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Posted - 2016.06.10 21:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
EDIT: By the way, Eve Online still has that one feature where Faction Warfare systems can still be affected by Dust 514 battles. Obviously no one is playing Dust anymore but the feature is still there regardless. Considering the level of connectivity Dust had with Eve, I can see FW still being one of the first cross-game features if that were to ever happen.
Sadly you know as well as I do that the Dust 514 FW system was not a very good one at all and hardly representative of militia effort as a whole and merely of individual fights at 30 minute intervals on random planets in systems no sane eve player cared about.
Here is hoping Project Nova can improve upon that. At the very least later down the road after Nova has established its own foundation there needs to be tools in place that enable both Capsuleers and Mercenaries to better coordinate. Eve players should be able to know in advance which planet the next battle will take place while having, by default, a direct line of communication with the ground troops.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13523
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Posted - 2016.06.11 00:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
No. The option to choose specific systems to attack needs to make it into the game. We'll never have real value otherwise.
Why not couple your idea with mine? Let ground troops decide where to fight and then let the system send out a message to affected faction players in Eve of the incoming ground battle.
EDIT: Fixed a bad quote.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13523
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Posted - 2016.06.11 01:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:True Adamance wrote: No. The option to choose specific systems to attack needs to make it into the game. We'll never have real value otherwise.
As much as I would love to see a game that has a real impact on the Eve Universe... That kind of connection can't be allowed in from the start, because they can't possibly risk screwing up the whole place with an untested game. It's gotta start small and work its way up slowly... We all know what happens when CCP make a load of big changes in one go.
I'm pretty sure True and I understand that ideas involving this much connectivity are likely not going to be implemented for a very long time anyways given what we previously experienced with Dust 514 and where CCP wants to start off first with Nova.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13527
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Posted - 2016.06.11 16:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
I just realized something. This whole time we were talking about Nova's connectivity with Nova while ignoring the fact that this thread is mainly about Nova Maps and PC gameplay. I think we should get back to that original topic.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13528
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Posted - 2016.06.11 17:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
What about Warbarges? Every Dust merc had one and there use to be plans for corporations to have one. Those warbarges are so large that you can fit 2-3 MCCs in its hangar. Imagine the fights in that for control of each other's barges.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13531
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Posted - 2016.06.12 19:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:What about Warbarges? Every Dust merc had one and there use to be plans for corporations to have one. Those warbarges are so large that you can fit 2-3 MCCs in its hangar. Imagine the fights in that for control of each other's barges. Speaking of MCC's wouldn't it be cool if they had something like battlefields 2142 Titan mode? Where the game ends when one team takes control of the map then invades the opposing MCC and captures it? That feature alone would have made dust seem a lot more cool
I can imagine Project Nova becoming an ode or tribute to the previous games that people enjoyed like BF 2142 and MAG. Especially MAG.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13544
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Posted - 2016.06.14 21:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I would say especially BF2142, but I never actually played M.A.G.
I recall a lot of M.A.G. players came over from that game to enjoy Dust for two reasons.
1. M.A.G. was shutting down at the time. 2. Dust 514 was hyped by CCP at the time (again, no promises made) saying that they hoped to one day have about 128 players fighting against each other in a single battle. Probably to try to emulate Eve Online's epic battles.
EDIT: I forgot there was a third reason. M.A.G. Tribute dropsuits which came later on. SVR, Raven, and I forgot what the third one was.
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