DUST Search - Nova's flaws

Marston VC wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Slayer Deathbringer wrote:

LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:

Saying not much variety with nothing but the words from a few people that played a small test version and a couple of of dev interviews may be jumping the gun a bit. Just because it takes some time to skill up a role does not mean you can not skill up multiple roles. At least this way you cant refuse to use something until you have 100% maxed it out while using something else. Having little or no SP allocation to be done manually and naturally growing in the role you enjoy sounds like a great concept to me.

I am more than happy vehicles are gone. They were a blight on the game just because CCP never figured out what force multiplier means.
"

1 No I think being forced to use a crappy gun in order to use a decent one is a stupid concept maybe having skilling up as something to make it cost less would be appropriate so if you want to go straight to proto it will take longer than using the weapon to get it to proto but not drastically less like instead of taking 1 month of active SP for complete non-use to get to proto and 2 days of active use it would be like 3 weeks non-use to one week of use for proto maybe having it be harder to use just active sp for proficiency past 1 but very fast with active use

That's more or less how to works in every game dude. To get the good stuff you have to use the not so good stuff.

I hate this sort of mentality. "Everyone else does it so we should too" that's not true. Dust didn't do that lol. and even so, why does that sound like a good idea to anyone???? How is the new player experience going to be if people are forced to play through crap to get to something decent? That sounds like a recipe for destroying the player base again. Nothing turns a new player off more then getting sent into a game with militia gear and getting stomped by players who already have the good stuff unlocked.

At least with dust a new player could quit for two months, come back with a boatload of passive SP and emediately jump into a proto suit/gun. But in this new type of system a new player will quit and just never come back simply because of the grind it'll take for them to get to a respectable set up.

The best part is going to be when you have dedicated players who grind through this maze of bs anyway, only to have their role get nerf batted and have to go back to square one in order to find a new role. I mean literally square one. In dust, they might nerf your proto logi class and prompt you to want to skill into something else. But at least you still had a proto logi suit to play and save SP in. I mean, a nerfed proto suit will still be better then any basic frame suit. In this new system, every time you want to change roles, you'll have to start back in the militia/basic frame suit and completely not use any of the better stuff you spent so much time unlocking in the other role. And personally I think that's stupid


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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8176	Posted - 2016.05.10 19:37:00 - [1] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Agreed. Forcing a player to "main" a role just to be able to play it right when they need it removes essential freedom from the game. I'm not really sure how requiring a player to actually play a role in order to level it up is removing freedom. You can still skill your character into anything you want, you just like....actually have to actually play that role. To me that makes far more sense than "Weel I've been fighting as a sentinel for this whole time and never touched a logi suit...but now I'll just spend all my SP on logi **** and now I can use the best equipment in the general despite literally never using it before." EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8185	Posted - 2016.05.11 15:01:00 - [2] - Quote Marston VC wrote: True Adamance wrote: Slayer Deathbringer wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Saying not much variety with nothing but the words from a few people that played a small test version and a couple of of dev interviews may be jumping the gun a bit. Just because it takes some time to skill up a role does not mean you can not skill up multiple roles. At least this way you cant refuse to use something until you have 100% maxed it out while using something else. Having little or no SP allocation to be done manually and naturally growing in the role you enjoy sounds like a great concept to me. I am more than happy vehicles are gone. They were a blight on the game just because CCP never figured out what force multiplier means. " 1 No I think being forced to use a crappy gun in order to use a decent one is a stupid concept maybe having skilling up as something to make it cost less would be appropriate so if you want to go straight to proto it will take longer than using the weapon to get it to proto but not drastically less like instead of taking 1 month of active SP for complete non-use to get to proto and 2 days of active use it would be like 3 weeks non-use to one week of use for proto maybe having it be harder to use just active sp for proficiency past 1 but very fast with active use That's more or less how to works in every game dude. To get the good stuff you have to use the not so good stuff. I hate this sort of mentality. "Everyone else does it so we should too" that's not true. Dust didn't do that lol. and even so, why does that sound like a good idea to anyone???? How is the new player experience going to be if people are forced to play through crap to get to something decent? That sounds like a recipe for destroying the player base again. Nothing turns a new player off more then getting sent into a game with militia gear and getting stomped by players who already have the good stuff unlocked. At least with dust a new player could quit for two months, come back with a boatload of passive SP and emediately jump into a proto suit/gun. But in this new type of system a new player will quit and just never come back simply because of the grind it'll take for them to get to a respectable set up. The best part is going to be when you have dedicated players who grind through this maze of bs anyway, only to have their role get nerf batted and have to go back to square one in order to find a new role. I mean literally square one. In dust, they might nerf your proto logi class and prompt you to want to skill into something else. But at least you still had a proto logi suit to play and save SP in. I mean, a nerfed proto suit will still be better then any basic frame suit. In this new system, every time you want to change roles, you'll have to start back in the militia/basic frame suit and completely not use any of the better stuff you spent so much time unlocking in the other role. And personally I think that's stupid Well typically speaking, a role is nerfed if it is OP. Are you worried about people having their crutch taken away and then not allowing them to jump to the second most OP thing instantly? And then passive SP? "having a rough time? Just stop playing the game for two months and come back or instant gratification that you did absolutely nothing to earn!" Is that really a good argument? And yes, every time you want to change roles you'll have to start from scratch. I didn't work as a civil engineer for years then decide to switch to solar design and expect to be a master electrician overnight. I had to start at nothing and work my way up. That's how how learning something new works. Not to mention having to start from the bottom up in a new role actually helps NPE because veterans can't sit comfortable at the top tier and freely switch into other top tier roles endlessly. At some point they'll have to get off their throne and plow the fields again every once in a while. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8191	Posted - 2016.05.12 01:53:00 - [3] - Quote Marston, going to try to nto turn this into a massive quote/response thread because they annoy me, so forgive me if I'm unclear or miss a point. I'll start off by saying that I think a large part of this particular issue is tied to personal preference and I fully understand that everyone will not agree with me and that the game is not made specifically for me...so If I don't agree with another player or the way the game is design, that doesn't mean it's inherently wrong, it simply means I don't particularly agree with that aspect. --- SO! Let's take a looksie... So the nerfing bit, I wont argue able to reason behind nerfing because I think there are some really good, and really bad examples of balance choices made and it's not always clear cut. As for new player experience, it's actually rather common for games to require you to play a certain role in order to level it up, and while certaintly not ever game is successful, there are many that are. Either way the existance of such a progression system does not innately create a poor NPE. That being said I don't feel that requiring a player to start from square one when they want to change roles will make the new player experience a bad one. And even in that case, "square one" isn't entirely accurate since non-role specific points such as Electronics, Shields, ect. will most likely be shared between roles. --- I apologize if I wasn't clear the point I was trying to make. I was stating that telling a player "Oh don't worry, just don't play for 2 months and then skill into something new." isn't exactly a good argument to make a player enthusiastic about the game. I'm also not entirely sure how the current system avoids this issue anyways, unless you're reffering to players stockpiling SP to then spend on something else as soon as the current role gets nerfed. In this case, the only real difference is that you grind SP on the current role to spend on a different role, or you grind SP on a different role. If you're grinding to stockpile SP to ultimately spend on something else, it stands to reason that you more or less have nothing else to level up on that role...in which case wouldn't you want to try something different anyways since you ultimately plan to spend the SP on it in the future? --- Now this point is where we clearly differ. I personally find very little accomplishment in switching to something and isntantly being top tier in something. The process of starting from close to nothing and working my way up to the final result is where I get the enjoyment...not in having the final result simply because I spent the time doing something unrelated. If I'm able to seize the final result immediately, it takes the sense of accomplishment out of it for me and thus the overall enjoyment. So while you may think my story or example is stupid, what I was trying to get at is "I'm the kind of person that enjoys starting over and learning something new from the ground up, so this sort of system appeals to me and it is not entirely unrealistic." So while, again, I understand that the game is not specifically designed for me... I'm simply trying to state I personally prefer a system where I have to actually play and earn my progression within a role because I think its far more rewarding overall. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8191	Posted - 2016.05.12 01:55:00 - [4] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Really though all the negativity and optimism in the world is entirely pointless if Hilmar ends up canning this project too. You could argue that it's up to us to build that excitement but I'm sorry, people were very clear they wanted Legion or for more to be done with DUST. It was very clear we have a passionate if not dysfunctional community that loves this game on both sides of the aisle. I think we have a very different memory of how the player base reacted to the Legion announcement a Fan Fest 2014 EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer