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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
1019
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Posted - 2016.05.10 05:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Saying not much variety with nothing but the words from a few people that played a small test version and a couple of of dev interviews may be jumping the gun a bit. Just because it takes some time to skill up a role does not mean you can not skill up multiple roles. At least this way you cant refuse to use something until you have 100% maxed it out while using something else. Having little or no SP allocation to be done manually and naturally growing in the role you enjoy sounds like a great concept to me.
I am more than happy vehicles are gone. They were a blight on the game just because CCP never figured out what force multiplier means.
Yes CCP seriously boned the timelines on this whole thing. I don't understand why CCP, primarily the PR team, is just plain bad at making announcements. We all know the failures so I won't waste my time listing them out but just ask yourself, "Did CCP seem to learn any valuable lessons from the failures I have witnessed from them?" |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
1021
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Posted - 2016.05.10 20:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think that part of the issue here is somehow defining people who play infantry-only shooters and people who play combined-arms shooters as some kind of completely separate communities with conflicting tastes in games. There were plenty of people who came to Dust from infantry-only shooters and found the combined-arms aspect to enhance the gameplay. I think it quite safe to surmise that when Nova brings vehicles back into the game those same kinds of people will adapt and learn to enjoy them.
Keep in mind also that one of the biggest factors in crafting a game that lasts through the years is a wide variety of experiences. While Nova will start out being infantry-only on ship interiors, even after planets come out there will be people who still like the ship interiors, and both will still be available. That means you keep the people that want an infantry-only experience while also giving a combined-arms experience to the people who are primarily looking for that. As a bonus, the infantry-only people are likely to try out planetary fights when they start wanting a new experience.
Dust 514 was pitched to us in 2012 as eventually having Public Contracts, Faction Warfare, Planetary Conquest, some form of Arena-shooter mode with classic game types from other shooters, and various forms of PvE. Basically, it was supposed to have the same variety of experiences that has allowed EVE Online to be around for 13 years and still be going strong.
However, many of those experiences were not initially part of EVE Online. Sovereignty didn't come in until at least a year after the game released, and Faction Warfare was put in in 2008, five years after the game released. It could be argued that if the CCP of 1999-2000 with their limited team and resources had tried to make EVE Online then with all the features it has now, it probably would have been trapped in development hell for years before eventually being shut down just like Dust 514.
I was one of the people that was worried at the idea of vehicles not being in at first, but when I look at EVE Online as an example, I understand what they're doing. They want to take the slow-and-steady approach that has occasionally been lost but has most of the time been a guiding principle of EVE Online's development.
"Combined arms" is fine and really pretty good if done right but no way should first person shooting become a secondary role to vehicles and surely vehicles should not set the tone for the entire game.
How can you call it combined arms when a person can skill into one thing and ultimately end up owning the battle field until they force a varying number of people (based on the current balance) to stop playing a FPS and start fighting vehicles while hoping to not get killed by the people still playing a FPS?
Dust was pitched as a lot of things that mostly did not come true. Eve became what it did because it was not attempting to be slammed into some role and they just developed it out to be a better game as ideas came along. I believe they need to take that same stance with Nova and completely forget about any type of integration with Eve ever. |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
1022
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Posted - 2016.05.10 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:One Eyed King wrote:"Well, that is no good, he can't get into a good college being that small. He is only the size of a peanut for Christ' s sake! How does he expect to open doors!" I'm going to miss you OEK. I hope you somehow find a way to product nova. I'll miss you too, and many other members of the community. Maybe they will let me at least sneak onto the forums... Working on maybe putting myself in position to make something PC gaming worthy, but that is a few steps down the line at the moment.
The new stuff coming out is significantly lower the bar for entry to a competitive gaming PC.
One example is the new GTX 1070 at $379 is more powerful than last years Titan X at around $1100.
RAM is also on a very steep decline thanks to DDR4 becoming more of a standard.
If the performance specs per core on the new AMD chips prove to be true a simple 6 core AMD chip should handle games quite easily.
Power consumption on chips and on the graphics cards are on the decline meaning high quality 500w and less power supplies are really back on the table. This is also partly thanks to SLI and Crossfire no longer being the main options for going into the much higher end.
My prediction is that by the end of this year or very early next year we will see the ability to build a full VR ready PC for between 6 - 700 dollars. To give you an idea on what kind of decline that is that would probably be equal to about an 1800 - 2000 dollar computer if you built it right this minute.
Moral of the story:
DO NOT BUILD A PC RIGHT NOW. You will be royally screwing yourself as we are about to see the greatest jump in price / performance ratio in history.
I am personally struggling to not buy because I want to upgrade so bad but just have to wait until everything is able to progress. |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
1024
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Posted - 2016.05.11 20:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Slayer Deathbringer wrote:LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Saying not much variety with nothing but the words from a few people that played a small test version and a couple of of dev interviews may be jumping the gun a bit. Just because it takes some time to skill up a role does not mean you can not skill up multiple roles. At least this way you cant refuse to use something until you have 100% maxed it out while using something else. Having little or no SP allocation to be done manually and naturally growing in the role you enjoy sounds like a great concept to me.
I am more than happy vehicles are gone. They were a blight on the game just because CCP never figured out what force multiplier means. " 1 No I think being forced to use a crappy gun in order to use a decent one is a stupid concept maybe having skilling up as something to make it cost less would be appropriate so if you want to go straight to proto it will take longer than using the weapon to get it to proto but not drastically less like instead of taking 1 month of active SP for complete non-use to get to proto and 2 days of active use it would be like 3 weeks non-use to one week of use for proto maybe having it be harder to use just active sp for proficiency past 1 but very fast with active use That's more or less how to works in every game dude. To get the good stuff you have to use the not so good stuff.
Exactly.
Dust is the only game I know of where you can run logi all day and magically become a bad ass heavy or assault or whatever other completely different unrelated role.
Sure the concept was fun but it creates proto stomping and hurts the development of players who have not skilled into a specific proto suit that generates lots of extra SP to be applied to other suits.
There is also greater monetization in selling boosters that only apply to one suit and multiply the experience gained while using that suit. |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
1024
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Posted - 2016.05.11 22:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote: Anyway, my point, through all my admitted rage, was not that we were included in the launch of Nova, but the fact that the only way we have to possibly play Nova in our favorite role is based on a "maybe". Put yourself in a pilots shoes for a moment, if you were told that you would have to wait until later to enjoy (different from play) the successor to a game you spent years on, and even then, without a guarantee that your favorite role is in it, you'd be rather pissed as well.
What part of Dust is dead and Nova is a new game are you missing? There is no "we" because you are talking about a group of people on a game that will be totally gone in a couple of weeks.
There are no vehicle operators in Nova and obviously will not be at launch. If you don't like it don't play it. Vehicles all but wasted an incredible amount of development time on Dust for what always ended up pissing off one side or another and are in no way a required aspect for a FPS so I can completely agree with Rattati's decision there.
Were vehicles fun? Hell yea they were.
But vehicles not only affect balancing and resource use but also completely change how maps need to be designed to accommodate them which ends up negatively affecting actual shooter game play. If you don't believe me just look at how stupidly big our maps were just for a total of 32 people making vehicles totally essential at the start of matches and in the event you had no alternate deployment closer to the fight.
Go play world of tanks and cry that you don't have a god mode there. |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
1025
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Posted - 2016.05.11 23:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:It's always fun watching people who can't kill vehicles get happy at the thought of COD 514
Or maybe no one wants to play a shooter where they have to throw away the ability to kill infantry and run around chasing some loser that's going to run into the red line to protect his precious k/d.
Whats more fun is watching the scrubs with no gun game cry because they wont be able to keep their precious god mode into a totally new game.
Rattati's plans are sending the tears flowing from the scrubs that killed Dust 514 so I am more sold on the concept than ever.
Want to proto stomp? Too bad you get to play in a ****** suit to skill up that suit.
Want to call in god mode and force several people to have to work together and kill just you weakening the rest of their team? Too bad go play something else.
Many of these people will quickly argue its CCPs fault for designing it that way and now that they are fixing it they are crying even more so screw em.
I can only hope that Rattati stays steady on this course and forces them to not even consider joining Nova. |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
1026
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Posted - 2016.05.12 03:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote: I missed none of it. I just don't like the answer given.
Before I continue, I'm going to point out a few major flaws in your thought/post process.
1) Your thought process behind vehicles being a waste of space is false, or at least no more true than it would be for any other suits. Case and point, was the commando suit necessary? Not really, an assault or a scout could have done their job of AV in PC. Was it necessary to have a pistol for every race? Again, I don't think so. It was nice, no question, but the game had a possibility of thriving or failing just as much with or without those. So while it may be true that vehicles took up a lot of unnecessary resources, it can be seen that it's no more true for anything infantry related.
2) Vehicles are not a required aspect of an FPS. Were this any other shooter, I would have no good argument, I'll grant that. But this is New Eden, the two sister games to Nova are Eve, and Valkyrie. Both of these games pretty much require you to play in vehicles. You may argue that spaceships and star fighters are not vehicles, but the term vehicle applies to a very broad term, mainly objects used to transports goods or people. Taking this into account, if the plan of CCP is to combine those games, as I recall they've stated, Nova will eventually have to interact with vehicles, albeit from a different game altogether. So in Novas case, that is false.
3) Maps were enlarged to accommodate vehicles. While this may have been CCPs intent, it was not necessary, and to be frank, annoying even to the pilots. Map size and redline has robbed pilots of kills we earned many times over, and saved us when we shouldn't have been saved. I've made threads practically begging CCP to reduce map size/flight ceiling. Vehicles would have thrived just as well on a smaller map. Don't believe me? If you played a PC in a vehicle, and were stationed in the city, all you need to use is the city to be effective, for it has cover, and the city isn't even 20% of the map size in most cases.
4) Pilots wanted god mode. Another falsehood, most of us didn't want that in the slightest. At least not the true ones. We wanted to have balanced and fun fights as much as the enemy. I've personally made many threads regarding vehicle and AV balance, a decent portion which was well received, not all were good ideas, I'll admit.
If you wish to have the last word in this, I'll let you have it now. But I won't respond to you after this, it will only devolve into an insult match, and I like to avoid those.
The commando suit is just another suit which does not require map changes to make it viable and certainly does not require special weapons to kill it. Your argument there is just not valid in anyway.
So because EA makes a golf game they should put golf in madden? As for the transport aspect when you are not putting people and objects hundreds or thousands of meters apart then transport is not required. I would much rather be able to spawn into action and fight as oppose to wasting 3 - 4 minutes every time I die because we dont have anything for deployment closer to the action.
No matter what maps are required to be bigger for vehicles to be functional. Just look at the map that was in the demo and tell me where there is any ability to even use a vehicle. Aside from just map size the overall design has to be seriously adjusted.
I agree not all pilots want god mode but lets be honest the majority of tankers were nothing more than k/d padders.
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
1173
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Posted - 2016.07.01 00:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Xeger's Hammer wrote: If they bring Nova to console, it will have to be Xbox, or the new Nintendo system.
HAHA! I'm sorry, I shouldn't have laughed. Perhaps you didn't follow what happened during Microsoft's E3 Conference where they announcement that for every game they will release as an Xbox One Exclusive they will also release that same game as a Windows 10 Exclusive. In other words, they just effectively removed any reason for me to buy the Xbox One and just stick to my Windows 10 computer. Meanwhile, Nintendo featured The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild which effectively "One Punch Man"ed the competition.
Yea Microsoft seems to be planning to go in sort of the same route as the steam boxes. I would not be surprised if the next "Xbox" is basically just an Alienware Alpha with win 10 on it to please the console players.
FAREWELL 514 /// FAREWELL CCP UNTIL WE HAVE NOVA OR FOREVER WHICH EVER ONE COMES FIRST
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