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Alena Asakura
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Posted - 2016.02.21 11:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:This is the original term in regards to gaming. http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrubIt is loosely defined as an individual who entraps themselves inside of a mental barrier of excuses whenever they lose, instead of assessing with they did wrong and how they can improve. To be called a scrub is not necessarily insult, but more of a direct classification of where they are mentally in regards to competition. Almost everyone starts at scrub status and, with luck, happens upon a breaking point where they become self-aware of the condition and break out of it. Of course, the current generation of gamers has no sense of history in regards to the word so they use it blindly as an insult with no meaning. That's not my definition of a scrub. To me a scrub is a disgusting exploit player that will do anything to win. CCP has either accidentally or deliberately put certain things in the game that are "supposed" to be for one purpose but are used as exploits to gain advantage in the game, fostering FOTM followers.
An almost perfect example is the jumpy myofibs. They were supposedly meant to allow people to jump on top of things rather than use a dropship. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you over a swamp. There is no way that CCP would not have known that this would be exploited by all sorts of really obnoxious characters that will find a way to use it for advantage. And so it is, that heavies with mass drivers and assaults with shotguns are gaining ridiculously unbelievable advantage, which simply cannot be countered.
CCP has fostered these scrubs. Someone at CCP seems to really like messing up games like EvE and Dust, interfering with the mechanics and creating the very FOTM garbage they say they want to avoid.
To me, scrubs are the lowest of the low - dirty players that will do anything to win and follow whatever FOTM is currently fulfilling that desire in all their fellow scrubs. I refuse to play that game, and it makes this game so much harder for me, but I would stop playing rather than participate. Luckily THIS game is finished and I won't have to put up with this for much longer. |
Alena Asakura
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540
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Posted - 2016.02.21 11:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:For me, scrubs are:
All proto gear users All officer gear users All proto tank drivers All myotard jumpers SNIPERS Battle leavers RE scouts I would agree with all of these, with the exception, under some circumstances, of:
- SNIPERS - during the match, a sniper allied to a squad can be very beneficial to that squad, and at the end of a match, snipers on the winning side can take out redlined players that are staying far back from the action, alternately, those on the losing side can still have some effect where otherwise they would be useless - some say they already are useless, but sniping is a valid game style, if used correctly in support of the team.
- Battle leavers - there are some situations where leaving the battle is the only option acceptable to the player concerned. I myself am a perpetual solo player. There are some matches where leaving the match is my statement of disgust at the scrubbery of the red players.
RE Scouts are certainly scrubs, add to that jumpy RE heavies.
This game has just gotten ridiculous. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
546
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Posted - 2016.02.22 01:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:This is the original term in regards to gaming. http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrubIt is loosely defined as an individual who entraps themselves inside of a mental barrier of excuses whenever they lose, instead of assessing with they did wrong and how they can improve. To be called a scrub is not necessarily insult, but more of a direct classification of where they are mentally in regards to competition. Almost everyone starts at scrub status and, with luck, happens upon a breaking point where they become self-aware of the condition and break out of it. Of course, the current generation of gamers has no sense of history in regards to the word so they use it blindly as an insult with no meaning. That's not my definition of a scrub. To me a scrub is a disgusting exploit player that will do anything to win. CCP has either accidentally or deliberately put certain things in the game that are "supposed" to be for one purpose but are used as exploits to gain advantage in the game, fostering FOTM followers. An almost perfect example is the jumpy myofibs. They were supposedly meant to allow people to jump on top of things rather than use a dropship. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you over a swamp. There is no way that CCP would not have known that this would be exploited by all sorts of really obnoxious characters that will find a way to use it for advantage. And so it is, that heavies with mass drivers and assaults with shotguns are gaining ridiculously unbelievable advantage, which simply cannot be countered. CCP has fostered these scrubs. Someone at CCP seems to really like messing up games like EvE and Dust, interfering with the mechanics and creating the very FOTM garbage they say they want to avoid. To me, scrubs are the lowest of the low - dirty players that will do anything to win and follow whatever FOTM is currently fulfilling that desire in all their fellow scrubs. I refuse to play that game, and it makes this game so much harder for me, but I would stop playing rather than participate. Luckily THIS game is finished and I won't have to put up with this for much longer. Spoken like a true scrub. Myos are bad because they kill you. "Real" skill means not using jump mods. You don't have to play a game with rules you don't like. But when you make up your own rules and get mad at people who don't recognize your own rule set then you are a scrub. That's right I don't have to play a game I don't like and when I encounter this vermin, I usually leave the match. If I stay it's to see if I can find a way to make some progress regardless of their ridiculous tactics, usually using one of my BPO fits, which they hate because they're inexpensive and therefore they don't really do me any damage.
Scum. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
546
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Posted - 2016.02.22 01:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:. There are some matches where leaving the match is my statement of disgust at the scrubbery of the red players.
Aka I leave battle when I am getting my ass kicked. Because the other players are bad. Do you say this stuff out loud before you type it? Absolutely! I really hate the garbage that does this sort of stuff in the game. It's ruining the game, but of course, you can't blame the vermin that use these tactics, blame CCP for allowing it in the first place.
I'm proud of the fact that I leave matches where this cr@p goes on. People who fight using exploits are scum, and I won't play against them. I certainly won't use their tactics, and I'll happily leave the game before I do. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
546
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Posted - 2016.02.22 01:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:For me, scrubs are:
All proto gear users All officer gear users All proto tank drivers All myotard jumpers SNIPERS Battle leavers RE scouts I would agree with all of these, with the exception, under some circumstances, of:
- SNIPERS - during the match, a sniper allied to a squad can be very beneficial to that squad, and at the end of a match, snipers on the winning side can take out redlined players that are staying far back from the action, alternately, those on the losing side can still have some effect where otherwise they would be useless - some say they already are useless, but sniping is a valid game style, if used correctly in support of the team.
- Battle leavers - there are some situations where leaving the battle is the only option acceptable to the player concerned. I myself am a perpetual solo player. There are some matches where leaving the match is my statement of disgust at the scrubbery of the red players.
RE Scouts are certainly scrubs, add to that jumpy RE heavies. This game has just gotten ridiculous. So according to you & toomany, me, as an RE scout, is a scrub. But according to Himiko and Babershop and linky I'm free/properly bastardly. Yeah starting to like where this thread is going. Cause reasons. Please do tell I'm getting curious. What you use are exploits, pure and simple. Yes, that makes you a scrub by my definition. Anyone who deliberately persistently uses exploits is a scrub. Don't tell me that RE Scouts are a valid entity in the game. They are dirty scum because of how they fight, which is to not fight at all. Rather, they're just cowards. Yes CCP has allowed this in the game, more to their shame. But people who actually stoop to using it and all other such cowardly contrivances are scum. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
546
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Posted - 2016.02.22 01:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:For me, scrubs are:
All proto gear users All officer gear users All proto tank drivers All myotard jumpers SNIPERS Battle leavers RE scouts So basically what you are saying is that you are, in fact, the classical scrub. And no, that's not an insult. Aside from the battle leavers example, all of these individuals are simply doing what is necessary for them to win yet you are blaming them for it rather than overcoming it. This is the prime example of a self-created prison of fictional rules that only a scrub can come up with. The game itself knows nothing about such ethics and conduct. Pay attention class, because this is EXACTLY what makes a scrub. Toomany, I'd recommend you take some time to reflect on your mindset. Lmao I'm a scrub because I use gear with which it is harder to win? You're thinking in the opposite way m8, and DO NOT insult me, how you like to be insulted? IT AIN'T COOL. For the record, I have no problem with people using whatever gear they want, and can fit. The problem I have is not with those people but with the way CCP creates matches which are unbalanced and tend to put all such people on the one team. Those people tend to squad and matchmaking puts all the squads together on the one team first before starting to fill the other team with them. This is presumably to allow squads to team up together.
Whatever the reason, the result is one side with squads full of proto gear and well organised, against the other side with usually solos and noobs. How anyone can say that's a balanced or enjoyable battle, I don't know! Even if as a solo I find myself filling a hole in the stomper side, it's a very unenjoyable experience because I simply don't get any targets before someone else takes them out.
There is nothing wrong with proto gear. I myself am working towards it. The problem is the battles. |
Alena Asakura
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546
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Posted - 2016.02.22 01:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:For me, scrubs are:
All proto gear users All officer gear users All proto tank drivers All myotard jumpers SNIPERS Battle leavers RE scouts So basically what you are saying is that you are, in fact, the classical scrub. And no, that's not an insult. Aside from the battle leavers example, all of these individuals are simply doing what is necessary for them to win yet you are blaming them for it rather than overcoming it. This is the prime example of a self-created prison of fictional rules that only a scrub can come up with. The game itself knows nothing about such ethics and conduct. Pay attention class, because this is EXACTLY what makes a scrub. Toomany, I'd recommend you take some time to reflect on your mindset. Lmao I'm a scrub because I use gear with which it is harder to win? You're thinking in the opposite way m8, and DO NOT insult me, how you like to be insulted? IT AIN'T COOL. He is saying you are a scrub because you believe you are helping by limiting your choices on purpose, and that once you accept there are valid ways to win other than those you have morally deemed acceptable you will no longer be a scrub. In fact, your doggedness in your reply if proof of what Himoko says, if you subscribe to Himoko's definition of "scrub". It's not my definition. It's THE definition. The very origin of the word in the context of gaming as coined by Sirlin back in the arcade era. Credit where credit is due, I didn't create the term. I just know its meaning, and how people improperly use it as an insult. Yes, they do improperly use it as an insult. Unfortunately, this is the way people will understand the use of the word. I have my own definition of scrub because I do think of it as an insult, but don't ascribe to the way people use it indiscriminately for anyone they don't like. |
Alena Asakura
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554
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Posted - 2016.02.23 03:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:What I've learned from this thread is that trying to win is apparently shameful.
I find this hilariously ironic in the most delightful ways. Trying to win is not shameful. Doing anything to win certainly is. CCP in their wisdom have allowed some very disgusting tactics to prevail in this game, which is shameful for them, but more shameful for the people who use them.
Any CPM that condones this sort of garbage needs to take a good hard look at themselves and their sense of honour. |
Alena Asakura
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556
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Posted - 2016.02.23 03:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Alena Asakura wrote: That's right I don't have to play a game I don't like and when I encounter this vermin, I usually leave the match. If I stay it's to see if I can find a way to make some progress regardless of their ridiculous tactics, usually using one of my BPO fits, which they hate because they're inexpensive and therefore they don't really do me any damage.
You are both missing my point, and further clarifying that you are in fact a scrub. You may not like it, I may not like it, but jumpy mass drivers are here, they are within the rules, and people will and should use them. The difference between us is that I don't call someone a name for playing within the rules. They are not ruining the game. They are trying to win, which is a hell of a lot more than you do. If I had to choose between you and any other blue dot, you would be sitting on the bench, because no one who wants to win wants people with a bunch of e-honour constructs on their team. You keep making up your own rules, and still losing, should make for tons of fun in whatever game you take your toxic mindset to next. They ARE ruining the game. Yes, they're here. They shouldn't be, by rights because there's simply no counter to them, and by CCP's own stated goals, they never introduce anything into their games without a counter.
But the real problem is people who choose to use these tactics. Yes, they ruin the game. The way the ruin the game is that people like me will simply stop playing. You'd better hope I'm in the minority. Just as well the game is ending soon. With all the stompers in pubs instead of FW and PC where they should be, it's hardly worth playing anymore.
And who, exactly is saying I'm losing??! Last I looked I'm going quite well for someone who only really started playing 8 months ago. I count it as a positive that I manage to keep making progress regardless of this sort of stuff. |
Alena Asakura
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556
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Posted - 2016.02.23 03:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Press Attache wrote:You are both missing my point, and further clarifying that you are in fact a scrub.
You may not like it, I may not like it, but jumpy mass drivers are here, they are within the rules, and people will and should use them.
The difference between us is that I don't call someone a name for playing within the rules. They are not ruining the game. They are trying to win, which is a hell of a lot more than you do.
If I had to choose between you and any other blue dot, you would be sitting on the bench, because no one who wants to win wants people with a bunch of e-honour constructs on their team.
You keep making up your own rules, and still losing, should make for tons of fun in whatever game you take your toxic mindset to next. Adding to this... if a tactic is genuinely broken then use it! Abuse it all to hell. If Rattati reviews data and sees the horrifically broken KDR that jumpy mass drivers are causing then balancing will happen to reign it in. Look at it like you are helping Rattati gather important data, not cheesing your way to 50 KDR. What? This is something CCP did deliberately. It suits someone in CCP or CPM to have it this way or it wouldn't be. |
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Alena Asakura
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558
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Posted - 2016.02.23 03:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
noob cavman wrote:Also Alena Asakura. You may be the silliest duster I have ever seen. You've beaten KTB... Wow. I'm amazed and saddened by that realization.
What, because I don't like what CCP has done to the game and what people are doing with it? I have a right to my opinion. I also have a right to leave when I want, which I will do when I want. One player leaving isn't going to be a problem. If there are a LOT of players like me, that's a problem.
Oh, that's except for the fact that the game is dead now anyway. :) |
Alena Asakura
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558
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Posted - 2016.02.23 03:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Press Attache wrote:You are both missing my point, and further clarifying that you are in fact a scrub.
You may not like it, I may not like it, but jumpy mass drivers are here, they are within the rules, and people will and should use them.
The difference between us is that I don't call someone a name for playing within the rules. They are not ruining the game. They are trying to win, which is a hell of a lot more than you do.
If I had to choose between you and any other blue dot, you would be sitting on the bench, because no one who wants to win wants people with a bunch of e-honour constructs on their team.
You keep making up your own rules, and still losing, should make for tons of fun in whatever game you take your toxic mindset to next. Adding to this... if a tactic is genuinely broken then use it! Abuse it all to hell. If Rattati reviews data and sees the horrifically broken KDR that jumpy mass drivers are causing then balancing will happen to reign it in. Look at it like you are helping Rattati gather important data, not cheesing your way to 50 KDR. What? This is something CCP did deliberately. It suits someone in CCP or CPM to have it this way or it wouldn't be. It is sad that you think that things are in the game because of the selfish desires of the CPM. The CPM (at least this one) have only ever wanted good for this game and nothing else. I would say the evidence speaks for itself. If you think that says good things, then so be it. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
560
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Posted - 2016.02.23 04:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Excuse me while I laugh my ass off at the idea that something is in the game because "It suits one of the CPM's to have it there."
Jesus I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
Thanks for the giggle. Breakin, laugh all you like. It won't change the fact that this game is becoming less and less enjoyable for people who try to play fairly. For the record, I said "someone" not "one of". For all I know it could be all of CPM that thinks these disgusting tactics are fine. CPM tends to be fairly advanced players who advocate what they believe to be good things for the game. This becomes a problem with they lose sight of things like NPE, which is crucial for increasing player numbers.
As I've said before, it's just as well this game is ending. I'll add that in its present form it would not likely last too much longer.
The fact that pubs have degenerated into an all out slug fest for proto players, with stomping now being condoned in the name of burning everything before the end, says something. Why are they in pubs? Why not in FW where at least the opponents would put up a fair fight? No, they're in pubs where they can slaughter everyone that can't afford proto gear or doesn't have the skills for it. Where else are noobs to go? FW is all but shut down because all the protos have now joined the pub stompers.
That doesn't have much to do with "scrubbery" other than the tactics that are being used, but the fact that these twerps are slaughtering near defenseless noobs probably would fit my own definition of "scrubbery". It's pathetic. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
560
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Posted - 2016.02.23 04:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Press Attache wrote:You are both missing my point, and further clarifying that you are in fact a scrub.
You may not like it, I may not like it, but jumpy mass drivers are here, they are within the rules, and people will and should use them.
The difference between us is that I don't call someone a name for playing within the rules. They are not ruining the game. They are trying to win, which is a hell of a lot more than you do.
If I had to choose between you and any other blue dot, you would be sitting on the bench, because no one who wants to win wants people with a bunch of e-honour constructs on their team.
You keep making up your own rules, and still losing, should make for tons of fun in whatever game you take your toxic mindset to next. Adding to this... if a tactic is genuinely broken then use it! Abuse it all to hell. If Rattati reviews data and sees the horrifically broken KDR that jumpy mass drivers are causing then balancing will happen to reign it in. Look at it like you are helping Rattati gather important data, not cheesing your way to 50 KDR. What? This is something CCP did deliberately. It suits someone in CCP or CPM to have it this way or it wouldn't be. It is sad that you think that things are in the game because of the selfish desires of the CPM. The CPM (at least this one) have only ever wanted good for this game and nothing else. Blaziken, yes, CPM generally do want what's good for the game (including EvE), at least according to their way of thinking. But there have been many controversial changes to EvE in the past, at CPM's behest, which prove that they don't have the well being of all in mind all the time. I would say humbly that the same sort of thing goes on with Dust, if the current game is viewed as evidence. |
Alena Asakura
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560
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Posted - 2016.02.23 04:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Just because we may or may not like something does not mean the devs will go with our suggestions for, or to the contrary.
This delusion people have that we somehow are allowed to dictate game balance and development is almost adorable in it's naivete. The game speaks for itself. It's less and less enjoyable every day. You think that conforms to the concept of CCP or CPM wanting what's good for the game? It may be good for certain people who benefit from it, not for the poor cannon fodder that are being blasted in pubs. |
Alena Asakura
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563
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Posted - 2016.02.23 13:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Just because we may or may not like something does not mean the devs will go with our suggestions for, or to the contrary.
This delusion people have that we somehow are allowed to dictate game balance and development is almost adorable in it's naivete. The game speaks for itself. It's less and less enjoyable every day. You think that conforms to the concept of CCP or CPM wanting what's good for the game? It may be good for certain people who benefit from it, not for the poor cannon fodder that are being blasted in pubs. That's nice, have a cookie. It's the same cookie we've all been nibbling on since 2014, so it's a little stale. might take some getting used to. If you want to make the game better, go earn the skills to become a developer and do better. Your attitude speaks volumes. You see nothing wrong with the way the game is going. You deserve the game to die. |
Alena Asakura
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564
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Posted - 2016.02.24 02:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Excuse me while I laugh my ass off at the idea that something is in the game because "It suits one of the CPM's to have it there."
Jesus I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
Thanks for the giggle. Breakin, laugh all you like. It won't change the fact that this game is becoming less and less enjoyable for people who try to play fairly. For the record, I said "someone" not "one of". For all I know it could be all of CPM that thinks these disgusting tactics are fine. CPM tends to be fairly advanced players who advocate what they believe to be good things for the game. This becomes a problem with they lose sight of things like NPE, which is crucial for increasing player numbers. As I've said before, it's just as well this game is ending. I'll add that in its present form it would not likely last too much longer. The fact that pubs have degenerated into an all out slug fest for proto players, with stomping now being condoned in the name of burning everything before the end, says something. Why are they in pubs? Why not in FW where at least the opponents would put up a fair fight? No, they're in pubs where they can slaughter everyone that can't afford proto gear or doesn't have the skills for it. Where else are noobs to go? FW is all but shut down because all the protos have now joined the pub stompers. That doesn't have much to do with "scrubbery" other than the tactics that are being used, but the fact that these twerps are slaughtering near defenseless noobs probably would fit my own definition of "scrubbery". It's pathetic. "People who play fairly" aka losers. Do you not shoot other players in the back? That would be unfair. Put an re on a wall and run around a corner to bait someone? Totally unfair. Dropping an OB? Unfair. Did you invest SP into suits and weapons? Congrats, now you can't shoot starter fits, that wouldn't be fair. Don't you see how your silly ruleset ruins more than it helps? You are playing a competitive lobby shooter and complaining because people won't give you duels at sunset with pistols and paces. At the risk of perpetuating this pointless discussion any further, when I really want to turn my back on the whole sorry mess, I feel I do need to answer at least these points.
There is a gradation of "fairness". It's said "All's fair in love and war". But I guess I would look rather to what is ethical rather than simply the subjective concept of fairness.
Yes, people who play fairly are seen as losers to a vast number of people these days, probably the majority. I count myself as one of these "losers", and quite proudly. I'd rather be a loser by playing fairly than a winner by any means available. That said, I'm hardly "losing", with close on 200m ISK and over 20m SP in only 8 months. I have 4 State LP suits paid for by earning them in CFW, and 2 State LP skins to go with them, which can only be earnt, not bought, as they're not transferable.
Yes I shoot other players in the back as they do me. Yes it's "unfair" by some sets of rules, but in warfare, it's not. Again, that saying "All's fair in love and war" comes up. But there's no ridiculous advantage here - all I have is a weapon, often a militia one, Caldari only (because that's another of the ridiculous rules I've imposed on myself) and a fleeing target, usually someone who fired at me first and then runs because I'm beating them.
I've never used REs to bait anyone. Yes, that's unfair but it's a valid tactic, scrubby though it may be. I've fallen for it many times, but have learnt to see the signs, and avoid following people for that reason.
OB? Orbital strike? Not sure what that is, but if it's an orbital strike, then as far as I can see it's unfair when it's bought with AUR, which to me contributes to the pay-to-win aspect of this game. Yes, I bought one once, to see how to deploy it. I don't think I killed anyone with it.
Yes, of course I invested SP into suits and weapons, but primarily into core skills which make all suits, weapons, modules and equipment better. Yes, I shoot starter fits, or at least I assume I do, but I wouldn't know because I don't exactly make a habit of checking first to see whether I can shoot them or not since they're usually shooting me, and if I don't shoot back, I'll die. In any case I mostly run starter MLT suits myself anyway. I find them fast, flexible, cheap (obviously) and totally adequate to what I do. I don't mind dying and have no KDR obsession like most seem to. I'm usually the one making the suicide run to take out some of the enemy camping the point when everyone else is either hiding in the shadows or sitting on a hill with a sniper rifle. You can do that quite well in a MLT suit, you know, and it costs almost nothing.
As for my ruleset "ruining" more than it helps, no, it doesn't. It actually makes me a better player than I would be if I allowed myself to follow the easy road. Players that stick to a purpose and resolutely follow a plan to excel in whatever they choose will ultimately be better than players that do FOTM or easy road. At the end of the day, when they nerf whatever is FOTM, I'll still have my skills in my chosen race and racial weaponry.
I will continue to play by my rules and leave matches whenever I encounter the sort of garbage that uses scrubby tactics. I refuse to add to their kills, at least any more than the one they get me with. They can rail against that all they like. If they nerf being able to leave matches, I'll simply stop playing. That will always be my ultimate answer to this game if it gets too ridiculous and disgusting. |
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