starter fits do nothing, they make the player so uncompetitive to the point where they can never be competitive, i understand the clue is in the name and that you start with the fit then move on but why set our new guys up to fail?

just went 59-0 against starter fits, could have gone 70-0 but the tanker on our team got a fair few kills too, starter fits offer no level of competitiveness and in this day and age the problem is this:

the gap between players, which means that as time progresses and the vets become more and more OP the new guys are at more of a disadvantage, I understand this stops somewhere as after a certain amount of SP you're not necessarily any further ahead but that's more to the point, the gap is smaller than we thought so we've already hit that wall.

therefore to fix this we need to bring the new players closer to us to bridge that gap slightly and give DUST more accessibility.

the gap between players, which means that as time progresses and the vets become more and more OP the new guys are at more of a disadvantage, I understand this stops somewhere as after a certain amount of SP you're not necessarily any further ahead but that's more to the point, the gap is smaller than we thought so we've already hit that wall.

How are noobs supposed to save up money without totally free suits? I mean, they can buy militia and fit their **** for next to nothing, but they'd probably fit it so badly that it would be worse than the starter fit.

Actually, I forgot that we have no new players.

They can do whatever xD

starter fits do nothing, they make the player so uncompetitive to the point where they can never be competitive, i understand the clue is in the name and that you start with the fit then move on but why set our new guys up to fail?

just went 59-0 against starter fits, could have gone 70-0 but the tanker on our team got a fair few kills too, starter fits offer no level of competitiveness and in this day and age the problem is this:

the gap between players, which means that as time progresses and the vets become more and more OP the new guys are at more of a disadvantage, I understand this stops somewhere as after a certain amount of SP you're not necessarily any further ahead but that's more to the point, the gap is smaller than we thought so we've already hit that wall.

therefore to fix this we need to bring the new players closer to us to bridge that gap slightly and give DUST more accessibility.

Play with officer doesn't help new guys. Most of them are already unable to play any kind of game I think, but giving them no time to see their mistake surely does not help.
Nooblets should have killcam.

I <3 u grab, but this post is tone deaf to the NPE. New players have no idea about fits, no skills or ISK. Nothing. Starter fits are a free glimpse at basic roles, weapons, modules, and match types; FOR FREE.

The problem isn't the Starter Fits. It's you being allowed in the same match with them. Meta lvl limiting what can be deployed into a Pub is the single greatest boost to new player retention CCP could possibly execute.

NO! NO KILL CAM! THAT IS THE SINGLE MOST IMMERSION BREAKING FEATURE I HAVE EVER SEEN SINCE BATTLEFIELD!

My question also is how do you get placed in battles with recruits or players using starter fits? I only see them from time to time. I'm only rank 7 but usually only see at least 4 and above when I play, maybe a few recruits spread out through both teams.

Actually, we still do get new players. Just not as much as we use to. Kind of like watching a faucet slowly dripping water.

But anyways...

Starter fits are important to the new players who don't know anything on how to fit a suit let alone figure out how to optimize their fittings while accounting for CPU, PG, and skill levels. In addition to that, every player needs to have something to fall back on in case they find themselves in a situation where they can't afford anymore gear and have to grind matches for ISK.

But I can't ignore one little problem with the starter fits. They don't have enough modules fitted. Ever since CCP implemented the limited tiericide of the dropsuits, the starter fits now have plenty of empty slots in addition to the few modules they have fitted. That's wasted space and that's likely the cause of these suits not being effective enough.

But we can't just fill the rest of the slots with more modules. Otherwise this will likely devalue, and possibly make redundant, the APEX suits which are basically starter fits with suit bonuses attached to them already.

I say add a couple of more modules to the suits but don't fill up all of the slots. Leave some slots empty. That might help make them a little more useful.

Finally, just to make my final point to the OP, starter fits were never meant to be competitive. They are just there in case anyone needs something to fall back if they can't afford more gear for a while. They can also serve as an effective tool by anyone who wishes to deny you any expensive kills you are aiming for. Since match payout is largely dependent on how much ISK in assets you destroyed on the battlefield, these suits can be used to cut down on the gains made by the players who kill them. Sure, a veteran can do better with militia fits, but starter fits don't cost anything to the player using them.

PS: Eve Online players have their own starter ship and those are nowhere near competitive on any level unless you bring in a fleet of a thousand of these little frigate-size ships to attack a single target.

I <3 u grab, but this post is tone deaf to the NPE. New players have no idea about fits, no skills or ISK. Nothing. Starter fits are a free glimpse at basic roles, weapons, modules, and match types; FOR FREE.

The problem isn't the Starter Fits. It's you being allowed in the same match with them. Meta lvl limiting what can be deployed into a Pub is the single greatest boost to new player retention CCP could possibly execute.

I've read this kind of thread before, but I still thoroughly disagree with the suggestion.

The Starter Fit is the most modern update over the Militia-era suits that a player can be given at the beginning of the game, while still making sure to give her something "blank" enough that she can swap out fittings on in keeping with CCP's cardinal concept of the game: that YOU are as free as possible to make your own custom creations, completely on your own.

The Starter Suit was MEANT to represent your radical departure from whatever "team combat" game we've just finished. No more CoD or MoH or SOCOM structure. This new game is out there in Bold Land.

It's meant to be so weird, that CCP figured you'd have no choice but to get rid of your classic fps prejudices and traditions, and start with an open mind.

Some (only some) of us stopped fighting the game very early, stopped splattering our clone skulls into HMG-fire and against the oncoming HAVs in those overly-expensive advanced suits we kept grabbing for... and spent more and more time in the M-C studying our Starter Suits. Experimenting, reading from Beta Players, doing math... and saying "Ah-haaa! THIS variation works! All I need to do is train a bit more SP into Level 3 here and Level 2 there, and NOT waste my SP going level 5 over THERE. This works!!"

....But too many other players just blew passed Starter Suits (takes too long to understand what works, or never wanted to have to "learn" crap in a shooter game... just give me a hot gun!). Some of us tried to tell them they might be playing this game the "wrong way", but, okay they didn't listen. So even today, Starter Suits are the most wasted and neglected CORE tool by the players.
But, that's kind of the PLAYER'S fault, isn't it? Not the suit.

It's unfortunate that even today, players refuse to get out of the fps-rut, with terms like "Loudouts", "noobs", "unlock", and "re-spawn", and unfortunate that many players swear up and down that there's really nothing different or new to learn about hacking this game.
But we shouldn't blame the training-equipment for not being used to learn... Right?

I learned a TON of math and proper-fit principles from Starter Suits. And I still keep TWO Starters in my M-C. (One suit for when I go squad-less in an FW, and one for building ISK in Skirmishes when I really need some quick.)

I could never have figured out how to build my spiffy custom DS-driver suit fit-outs, if I didn't have a Starter Suit to experiment on long before I could even unlock the suit I knew I needed. All my numbers-crunching and %-calcs were done with a mocked-out Starter Suit I kept on my Fittings Screen.

And from a (okay, girlish) POV, I can't stand the loud colors of your loadout-suits and Neo stuff. Long live those standard-stamped, nameless, non-specialized, GI-grunt Beginner suits. Always in fashion, and looking serious about combat. Not froo-froo couture...

I have a somewhat strange ability, I can take almost any suit and make it at the very least viable. The Starter fits make me want to vomit when I see them. If CCP would accept some of my fittings for starter fits then new players would be much better off on the battlefield instead of being a free kill. I can't simply go through and tell every new player how to properly fit a starter fit and what CCP is giving them is downright trash, I'd rather have a basic min scout with no modules and just a breach flaylock pistol than play in a starter fit. They literally do not allow a player to be viable on the battlefield. And come on man, we all know you can pop 6 proto tanks in a match and still not make a mil....

I <3 u grab, but this post is tone deaf to the NPE. New players have no idea about fits, no skills or ISK. Nothing. Starter fits are a free glimpse at basic roles, weapons, modules, and match types; FOR FREE.

The problem isn't the Starter Fits. It's you being allowed in the same match with them. Meta lvl limiting what can be deployed into a Pub is the single greatest boost to new player retention CCP could possibly execute.

My question also is how do you get placed in battles with recruits or players using starter fits? I only see them from time to time. I'm only rank 7 but usually only see at least 4 and above when I play, maybe a few recruits spread out through both teams.

Good question. But what's this about Rank - are you talking about Loyalty ranks? How does that have any bearing on what matches you draw? As far as I can see, anyone can be put in a match with anyone else, despite any rank considerations.

Well, you ran experimental against starterfit no?

*runs experimental vs starterfits*

*says starterfits are up*

*59/0*

I remember back when I started playing and used starterfits. I would usually go with something in the lines of 8 kills to 10 deaths.

They served well before but now that many people run proto, new players don't have a chance.

Just saw a starterfit die 20+ times and get ZERO KILLS
If CCP wants to take a step closer to improving NPe, they should start by equalizing militia gear to stabdard gear with the only exception that militia takes up more fitting space.

All starterfits should have basic slots and all weapons should have the same ammo as standard.

This will be a huge buff to new players and give them a better chance to compete than they do now.

I completely agree with what you're saying and I'll tell you something, it's the same thing I have said for a very long time but recently I realised that because of the playerbase being so small, we can't ever separate all the players yet the players not being separated in the first place, was the problem!

I literally stopped going on about it because I realised it's too little too late but I have been saying the same thing for a very long time now.

I've also made posts in the past (maybe on another account) about the NPE and what needs to be done to give new players a legup but nothing has really changed so I've shared the same thoughts in the past.

My post was rather limited to the suits and not the NPE itself so it was narrow, I don't think people want me to go on and on though so it wasn't very explorative.

Also yesterday it was my birthday I was tired from work then went out to a friends then came back and was not sober yet went 59-0 when I haven't broken 40 kills in a long time, I know it's because they were new players but meta locking was such a ******* huge mistake on CCP's part.

We needed metalocking and tiered matchmaking YEARS ago to the point where everyone has almost shut up about it now because it's too little too late, we needed it when DUST had the players, now DUST has lost the players because it wasn't there, it was it's own destruction, DUST stopped itself from having a huge playerbase.

Just like MAG the game could have been huge and hugely competitive and had tournaments and esports and have a big streaming presence, selfishly then I would be a professional DUST player, I would do this for a living tbh and would have also played MAG for a living if it was huge like it should have been.

I am a sourvet not a bittervet, I have a constant overpowering sour taste on my tongue which stems from games before DUST.