DUST Search - nova knifes should hurt vehicles as much as they do

Justice Darling wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Ok here we go.

Just today I got done playing a match in Domination on the following map:

http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/64656/1/LineHarvest_domination.jpg

My team came from the South while the enemy came from the North. At first, the enemy captured the objective but we managed to push them out and hack it for ourselves. But after the objective flips, blaster-fitted Gallente HAV with armor modules comes in from the enemy side becomes a nascence. It was sticking to an area located within Grids D9, E9, and F9. Because of this tank, we lost control of the objective.

So I decided to pull out my AV dropsuit which is an Scout Ak.0 with Wyrkomi Swarms, Flaylock pistol, and advanced AV grenades. Using the cloak, I flanked to get behind the tank and surprised it with 3 swarm salvos. As it took damage, the driver backed out from Grid F9 and headed North into its redline as it drove backwards. I kept up the pressure with AV grenades and flaylocks and forced it deeper into its redline. I nearly killed it with another 3 salvos of the swarms, but I got killed by the redline before I got a chance.

So I decided it was time to bring out my knife suit which I call the "Tank Killer". This is basically a Scout Mk.0 with Nothi's Nova Knives stacked with damage mods, kin kats, and a cloak. Nothing more. No extra weapon. No extra equipment.

I flanked the HAV once again and aimed straight for the rear section of the tank where the 240% damage bonus would be applied if I managed to hit it. The shields went down in the first hit and then I started digging into its armor. But the armor mods kicked in. Even if I was able to apply some damage, I wasn't able to apply it fast enough. The HAV driver backed out which caused the collision mechanic to push me to the side and out of the rear. I was chasing it, once again and with greater speed, but the HAV was just too fast. I was forced to cloak up and flee as it was firing its blaster at me. I tried again as the tank came back from its redline again and just kept attacking it. No surprise, it backed out into its redline but this time it manages to kill me as it retreated.

At this point I realized that the HAV was just not going to be easy to kill. In fact, my success rate throughout the match was ZERO PERCENT when using the "Tank Killer" fit. My Scout Ak.0 with Wyrkomi Swarm Launchers gave me better results than the "Tank Killer" Scout Mk.0.

Remember that I was using NOTHI'S Nova Knives. The most powerful sidearm in the game on a dropsuit that boosts its power while using it on a section of the HAV where it is most vulnerable and even then I was failing to kill the HAV.

Every.

Single.

Time.

The HAV driver was smart. He kept moving at the first sign of trouble and he had good enough aim with his blaster to kill me several times in my Scout Mk.0.

Perhaps I should have stuck with the Scout Ak.0 and its swarms.

Hey next time you try to drop 3 remote of the F/45 Remote Explosive before you start to knife and see what happens, pop them once he starts to run!

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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.23 20:08:00 - [1] - Quote Hello there. I'm the original nova knifer in this game. I have been around this game long enough that nova knives never use to be their own separate weapons until around the codex build. I am not the best and I don't think I have ever admitted to being the best. But I am the first. Let me tell you something about nova knives. They take skill to use. NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SKILL BOOKS. I'm talking about player experience. The kind of experience where you have to die a lot in expensive suits to make any progress with these knives. Even with the buffs they received over the years, they never were truly OP. They still require player experience to this very day. And so far only less than 10 people in the entire history of the game from closed beta to open beta to today have ever complained about the knives being too powerful for anything. Meanwhile the rest of the community laughs at anyone complaining about them being too powerful especially after mentioning that they lost a vehicle or a heavy suit to a pair of nova knives. In all my years of playing Dust primarily as a knifer, I have only successfully killed a few tanks and some LAVs and that's only because of the incompetence of the drivers. Come to think of it, I might have been that knifer that killed your LAV that time. The smarter ones have always (and still do) alluded me and have often killed me in the process either by running me over or having their smaller turrets kill me. Sometimes they even pop out of their tanks to kill me with their HMGs. Overall, my success rate is pathetic even as an experienced knifer. Here are some tips for you. Bring a partner with you. Have him do the driving while you do the hacking. If I start attacking the LAV, the driver can pull away to safety while you hack. Or he can do what most skilled drivers do. Run me over. Smarter players, especially Tank drivers, often fit armor mods which practically eliminates my effectiveness as a knifer while they stay on the move. Even the fastest scout won't be able to catch up. Also, if a knifer is capable of wrecking your vehicle and running that fast, that means he/she is weak as hell. Get out of your vehicle and shoot them because their dropsuit has the strength of a single-ply tissue paper that just got wet. Just giving me a mean stare is enough to put my body into a coma-like state. So knifers have to sacrifice a lot just to be able to kill vehicles that effectively. The Minscout in particular has limited PG, absolutely no ewar bonus beyond that of the cloak bonus, and it's the weakest suit in the entire game. They are better suited for hacking installations and objectives and attacking ground troops than wrecking vehicles. Did I also mention they are expensive as hell to use? If I were you, I would take some advice from the professional drivers who dealt with the likes of me. PS: I have struggled to receive hatemail from my vehicle victims and only received one actual hatemail in the years I have played Dust. The rest of my vehicle victims just salute me for some reason. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.23 20:34:00 - [2] - Quote A few tid bits about the history of the Nova Knives. 1. A lot of people, including me, use to ask CCP to enable us to run with the knives fully charged. But then a glitch popped up (twice in different forms) that enabled a few people to do that. At that point, I quickly learned how much of a bad idea that was. It would make the knives in the current state OP and then CCP would be forced to nerf them which usually (historically) results in CCP overnerfing them like they did with any other item they nerfed. This would have rendered nova knives offically useless and pointless even for me. So I changed my mind and fought against any suggestion to allow us to sprint with the charge held. In the end, CCP fixed the bugs and had the knives deal damage in a curve to address the problem of not being able to stab anyone who is running away from you even with just the insta-strike (no charge). 2. Their hit detection was pathetic. It's a little better today, but still wonky and the users suffer from tunnel vision in CQC situations. So far, there has not been any clear solution to address the tunnel vision and CCP was only able to widen the attack cone a little bit to compensate. 3. The knives may be tailored for the Minmatar Scout, but they are Caldari by design. It explains their hybrid nature. 4. They are the only weapons that I know of that deal 100% damage to both shield and armor. They are not like other weapons which deal more damage to shield than armor or vise versa. 5. They use to be standard issue with every suit in the game back in closed beta. But in order to use them, you have to press and hold the melee button to charge and then attack. Instant strikes did not exist for the knives until later on. Yes, they use to be considered melee attacks. Be thankful that the melee mods don't give bonuses at all to the knives. That's the job of the sidearm damage mods. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.25 00:01:00 - [3] - Quote Justice Darling wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I am not a pilot or driver... That being said, I am pretty sure I could get outside of 3m of a knifer if they were attacking me. And if not probably deserved to die. Just be lucky they weren't one of the knifers skilled at taking out drivers on the fly. They exist, though I haven't been able to pull it off myself. You know, the more I read on this, the more I think CCP don't now how far 3 meters is "per google 9.84252 Feet is 3m and 2.5 is 8.2021 feet" so if the range of the knifes is from what I've seen, 2.5m or more why the hell is anyone getting close with knifes if you can kill someone a full NBA player away? Simple way to see what I'm talking about at home boys and girls, get a tape measure that is 10 feet or more, OK now put the tap measure out 8 foot and 2 inch place on floor in front of you, then swing a knife in front of you, per nova knife description ""A close-quarters melee weapon, the nova knife is as deadly a weapon as anything on the battlefield" more like its more deadly then gods smite on the battlefield and every thing within side tape measure should be hit! It's more to do with the poor hit detection and trying to account for that for the sake of gameplay balance. Back then, the max range was 2 meters. But because of the poor detection of the knives especially when trying to chase someone using only the insta-strike (no charge), they gave it an extra half meter of range and allowed the knives to deal their damage as a "curve" during Uprising 1.9 if I remember correctly. Even then, people were still complaining that the knives were still nowhere near viable as a primary weapon. The nova knives where then normalized in terms of damage dealt. The standard and advanced nova knives were buffed in damage and normalized for their given tier while the prototype knives were left untouched. Militia nova knives did not exist until just before the sidearm event started. Officer nova knives came after the event and those knives are what make you feel that they are OP due to their insane charge time and high damage profile. However, what keeps them from being OP in reality is that they are so expensive (about 300k ISK a pair). Also, don't talk about comparing reality to a video game that is all about science fiction. Nothing about this game conforms with reality in any way. One more thing. If you're spending your next million SP on knives just because you might feel that it's the next flavor of the month, you will be sorely disappointed in the knives. Come to think of it, maybe you should invest in the knives just so you can see how extremely difficult it is to use. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.25 01:01:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Hmm. Didn't realize the blood raiders lav had such a low horsepower engine. Just run him the fcking hell over. Or outrun him. You have a turret,shoot him with that? I mean come on,now we're whining about nova knives vs vehicles? I swear to lord metapod,the complaining level here in these forums is too damn high! For peters fcking sake! Do you realize that: 1.you have to be within 2m to shank 2.have skillpoints in nova knives 3.charge and slash with the damn things 4.not fcking miss 5.spend a few million skill points on a scout Mk.0 and proto knives and the neccesary modules to shank your little tin car? Somehow its unfair that a pair of knives that cost isk can hurt your little bpo car? Maybe vs a tank it seems weird but Anti-vehicle is so unbalanced already. Not to mention madrugar gv.0s with damn near invincible dual hardeners rolling around farming infantry? Please,save you complaints for when the av and hav of doom are properly balanced. Again it's not whining. Nobody in an HAV has actually ever been knifed to death unless it was staged.... seriously. It's just a mechanic that is poorly represented and never should have been introduced. To some extent I agree and I think I can blame the previous dev leadership on that. An animation as you pointed out would have helped but that's too late now. Let's just hope #PortDust514 gives us a chance to address that. And for the record, I have recently killed tanks with nova knives. But as I said earlier, those were because the drivers were likely incompetent. So far, skilled drivers escape me easily (with and without killing me in the process). Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.28 04:08:00 - [5] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Wait, the state of Pilots is in such poor state that such idiots are rampant? Yup. No doubt about it. What makes it even more hilarious, or sad, is that each and every one of those kills I got with the knife were 100% preventable. What could have prevented them from losing a tank to a pair of Ishukone or Nothi's Nova Knives? Simple. 1. Don't panic. 2. Drive away. 3. When you're far enough away, get out of the tank and shoot me. I'm pretty squishy. (this step is optional) But they all panicked and in their haste drove their tanks into structures or other objects that pinned their tanks to the point of being immobilized long enough for me to destroy them with knives. Sometimes, if they crash into something hard enough, they suffer from impact damage alone which softens them up for me even more before slashing away at their tank. The power of the knives may be hard to ignore, but it's impossible to ignore the existence of stupid drivers. Now here is something that very few people heard about me. Remember that Sidearm Event that CCP hosted a long time ago requiring everyone to use MILITIA sidearms only to qualify for naming the next officer sidearms? Well, this may surprise the original poster, but I managed to kill a dropship with a pair of MLT level knives. The pilot was trying to squash me like a bug by bringing down his dropship on top of me. He was clearly trying. Several attempts with this tactic against me failed. But eventually he dropped his dropship a little too fast and hit the ground just enough to wipe out his shields and some armor. I quick slash its hull and he exploded on the ground. The kill feed read... Maken Tosch [Militia Nova Knives] StupidDerpshipPilot I laughed so hard that I didn't notice that I got killed by a random redberry soon after until after I took a moment catch my breath from all the laughter. Remember that this was a year before Hotfix FoxFour which means that I was only dealing 50% damage with MLT knives. Anyways, that's enough stories from me about derpship pilots and panicky tank drivers. Let's continue on the issues at hand. 1. I still agree that there should be some limitation to where on a tank a knife can apply the most the damage. The rear where the powercells are at is always the best place and damage is currently amplified by about 240% if you hit your mark with the knives. Everywhere else on the tank should cause the nova knife to lose some of its effectiveness. 50% damage applied on the front, 50% damage applied on the sides where the treads are at, 100% damage applied on the top, and the current 240% damage still applied on the small area on the rear of the tank. This way, if a knifer wants to get at least full damage dealt, they'll have to get on top of the tank where the driver and his gunner can see him. If they want the bonus damage, they'll have to flank and get behind the vehicle first. 2. If you want animations showing a player ripping a tank apart with knives and then planting a grenade or RE inside, perhaps Halo can be the inspiration for that. 3. Even if the above-mentioned ideas were implemented, that still won't address the other part of the nova knife equation. Idiot pilots. For Christ sake, if someone loses a dropship to a pair of militia nova knives, it's not because the knives are OP. It's because they're an idiot. Tanks were still dying to nova knives back when knives could only do a blanket damage of 50% on vehicles. Even if your nerfed the effectiveness to back to those levels, tanks will still die to nova knives because of idiots. If a pair of MLT knives were able to kill a dropship back in 2014 with just 50% effectiveness, I'm pretty sure Ishukones had no problem. 4. Oh, let's not get started on fictional physics in a video game here. Have you looked at Eve Online? An entire station can be right between you and your target and the station won't be able to block a single shot. Planets don't orbit at all and thus are fixed onto the same location every day. Spaceships move like submarines do underwater in the vacuum of space. And don't get me started on bumping. And that's just on Dust 514. Wait until we start talking about Halo. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.29 04:51:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Oh, let's not get started on fictional physics in a video game here. Have you looked at Eve Online? An entire station can be right between you and your target and the station won't be able to block a single shot. Planets don't orbit at all and thus are fixed onto the same location every day. Spaceships move like submarines do underwater in the vacuum of space. And don't get me started on bumping. And that's just on Dust 514. Wait until we start talking about Halo. It's not so much about physics as it is trying to get people of understand modern tank technologies as well as how weapons penetrate tank armour or how they fail to penetrate the armour. I feel it's entirely reasonable to assume that the armour thickness of a cloned soldiers tank is sufficient to render short bladed weapons like Nova Knives completely ineffective plasma edged, blade or no, where are a fast moving dense plasma projectile discharging thermal energy across the surface of whatever it impacts with certainly would have the capacity to deal damage to armoured vehicles in the same way a HESH round might. I know. Make-believe physics is hard to ignore, but to try to compare modern day tank technologies to fictional tank technologies that is over 20,000 years into the future is like comparing the USS George Washington to the Nyx Supercarrier The purpose of the vehicles might be the same, but the disparity in technology between them is just as hard to ignore as make-believe physics. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.31 23:52:00 - [7] - Quote Ok here we go. Just today I got done playing a match in Domination on the following map: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/64656/1/LineHarvest_domination.jpg My team came from the South while the enemy came from the North. At first, the enemy captured the objective but we managed to push them out and hack it for ourselves. But after the objective flips, blaster-fitted Gallente HAV with armor modules comes in from the enemy side becomes a nascence. It was sticking to an area located within Grids D9, E9, and F9. Because of this tank, we lost control of the objective. So I decided to pull out my AV dropsuit which is an Scout Ak.0 with Wyrkomi Swarms, Flaylock pistol, and advanced AV grenades. Using the cloak, I flanked to get behind the tank and surprised it with 3 swarm salvos. As it took damage, the driver backed out from Grid F9 and headed North into its redline as it drove backwards. I kept up the pressure with AV grenades and flaylocks and forced it deeper into its redline. I nearly killed it with another 3 salvos of the swarms, but I got killed by the redline before I got a chance. So I decided it was time to bring out my knife suit which I call the "Tank Killer". This is basically a Scout Mk.0 with Nothi's Nova Knives stacked with damage mods, kin kats, and a cloak. Nothing more. No extra weapon. No extra equipment. I flanked the HAV once again and aimed straight for the rear section of the tank where the 240% damage bonus would be applied if I managed to hit it. The shields went down in the first hit and then I started digging into its armor. But the armor mods kicked in. Even if I was able to apply some damage, I wasn't able to apply it fast enough. The HAV driver backed out which caused the collision mechanic to push me to the side and out of the rear. I was chasing it, once again and with greater speed, but the HAV was just too fast. I was forced to cloak up and flee as it was firing its blaster at me. I tried again as the tank came back from its redline again and just kept attacking it. No surprise, it backed out into its redline but this time it manages to kill me as it retreated. At this point I realized that the HAV was just not going to be easy to kill. In fact, my success rate throughout the match was ZERO PERCENT when using the "Tank Killer" fit. My Scout Ak.0 with Wyrkomi Swarm Launchers gave me better results than the "Tank Killer" Scout Mk.0. Remember that I was using NOTHI'S Nova Knives. The most powerful sidearm in the game on a dropsuit that boosts its power while using it on a section of the HAV where it is most vulnerable and even then I was failing to kill the HAV. Every. Single. Time. The HAV driver was smart. He kept moving at the first sign of trouble and he had good enough aim with his blaster to kill me several times in my Scout Mk.0. Perhaps I should have stuck with the Scout Ak.0 and its swarms. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.02.02 00:26:00 - [8] - Quote Justice Darling wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Ok here we go. Just today I got done playing a match in Domination on the following map: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/64656/1/LineHarvest_domination.jpg My team came from the South while the enemy came from the North. At first, the enemy captured the objective but we managed to push them out and hack it for ourselves. But after the objective flips, blaster-fitted Gallente HAV with armor modules comes in from the enemy side becomes a nascence. It was sticking to an area located within Grids D9, E9, and F9. Because of this tank, we lost control of the objective. So I decided to pull out my AV dropsuit which is an Scout Ak.0 with Wyrkomi Swarms, Flaylock pistol, and advanced AV grenades. Using the cloak, I flanked to get behind the tank and surprised it with 3 swarm salvos. As it took damage, the driver backed out from Grid F9 and headed North into its redline as it drove backwards. I kept up the pressure with AV grenades and flaylocks and forced it deeper into its redline. I nearly killed it with another 3 salvos of the swarms, but I got killed by the redline before I got a chance. So I decided it was time to bring out my knife suit which I call the "Tank Killer". This is basically a Scout Mk.0 with Nothi's Nova Knives stacked with damage mods, kin kats, and a cloak. Nothing more. No extra weapon. No extra equipment. I flanked the HAV once again and aimed straight for the rear section of the tank where the 240% damage bonus would be applied if I managed to hit it. The shields went down in the first hit and then I started digging into its armor. But the armor mods kicked in. Even if I was able to apply some damage, I wasn't able to apply it fast enough. The HAV driver backed out which caused the collision mechanic to push me to the side and out of the rear. I was chasing it, once again and with greater speed, but the HAV was just too fast. I was forced to cloak up and flee as it was firing its blaster at me. I tried again as the tank came back from its redline again and just kept attacking it. No surprise, it backed out into its redline but this time it manages to kill me as it retreated. At this point I realized that the HAV was just not going to be easy to kill. In fact, my success rate throughout the match was ZERO PERCENT when using the "Tank Killer" fit. My Scout Ak.0 with Wyrkomi Swarm Launchers gave me better results than the "Tank Killer" Scout Mk.0. Remember that I was using NOTHI'S Nova Knives. The most powerful sidearm in the game on a dropsuit that boosts its power while using it on a section of the HAV where it is most vulnerable and even then I was failing to kill the HAV. Every. Single. Time. The HAV driver was smart. He kept moving at the first sign of trouble and he had good enough aim with his blaster to kill me several times in my Scout Mk.0. Perhaps I should have stuck with the Scout Ak.0 and its swarms. Hey next time you try to drop 3 remote of the F/45 Remote Explosive before you start to knife and see what happens, pop them once he starts to run! Doesn't that prove my point that knives are not much to worry about for tank drivers? Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy