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Which shall it be? Gear price or payouts?

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Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:00:00 - [1] - Quote So... CCP, I know you're busy, but I must continue to remind you of an issue in our payout/gear cost system. Currently, and correct me if i'm wrong here, it's a payout pool system where the top players, regardless of effort, gets paid the biggest payout in the pool. The Pool is split in two between both teams, the winning team receives the larger portion, and then again it is split up amongst your 16, 13, or 8 members.... matchmaking dependent.... This is simply an unfair system, and an economically tragic one for the new players in the game. They simply will not make enough isk to cover there efforts when try to win the battle. Obviously, by all the guys consistently hanging out in the redline, players have figured out that dying so much as once in a proto dropsuit in the pubs means going negative on their payout. They often run free suits, which means death and a 90% rate of battle loss, or they stay in the redline and watch the defeat?! This leads to so many battles being left, or no contest battles which are simply 15-30 min waits for the MCC to give out?! This is BORING! Now I know some guys are just kd padders.... got NO idea why, but they care about kd. However, the rest of us want to FIGHT! So... What leads to proto stomping? Well, that's simple really. A bunch of guys squad up and decide to test themselves. They got some isk to burn, and want to go full on into this next battle. This is not an issue, and no we don't need tier locks! The issue that makes it a proto stomp is the enemy teams inability and/or reluctance to also step up to the challenge. For new bros of course this is an issue. They simply haven't the SP or EXP to take on a lot of this from vets. This is why I always recommend to new bros to squad with more experienced players! For older more experienced plahyers the payout/gear cost is the issue?! Yes, they have the skill, but can't afford it! Now I always tell guys that I train to run what you can afford. Dust is not a sprint, it's definitely a marathon! I do this myself, and I got the isk to burn. How do you think I got it though? Running pro in every pub? NOOO! I run advanced in pub with few equipment or mods pro! I always run pro links, needles, and scans! Stay with me here! If you are below 20 mil SP run basic or free bpo! The apex dropsuits are your best friend, and there are a number of ways to obtain them. The FW grind is great for new players to get 8 instead of 4 in squad. More help, more combined SP, and more team tactics which a ton of you desperately need! You can also buy the Apex suits with Aurum which helps CCP unplug head from nus, or buy them with isk from players who grind FW. WATCH OUT FOR SCAMMERS!!! TRADE WITH REPUTABLE TRADERS!!! TAKE YOUR TIME, AND ASK AROUND FIRST!!! Doing this will guarantee that unless you go 2/40 you'll make positive isk gain in the pubs. Squading heavier in pubs (4-man squads) and in FW (8-man squads) gives the basic suit you are wearing a better chance with comms and tactics! Two basic suits can kill one proto suit 2v1! A basic blaster tank w/ AV gunner can kill enemy troops to help your team, and enemy tanks if you guys work together! For players under 20 mil SP! CCP, by accident I assure you, help you out by making trading/selling a thing in dust! I recommend focusing on this for major isk gain! Your officer weapons, that you can't even use to full potential yet, can be sold for decent prices to PC players that will actually put them to good use! Trust me it's a gain for you as some of those weapons go for some hefty prices! Also, your warbarge! Upgrade the mobile factory hardcore, and the experimental laboratory as well! This will yield more weapon selling isk for you as you consistently acquire and sell experimental weapons! I personally pay, in bulk, 100K per AR, SG, and PLC! If you got 20 that's 2 mil for isk you didn't really grind for! At 40 mil SP, and the stockpile of isk and Loyalty point dropsuits and weapons you have purchased, you can run advanced gear consistantly! In pubs I run advanced gear, and the dropsuit and weapons are loyalty gear 95% of the time. This is where faction loyalty, squading up, and racial parity really help new players! Math! I know, "Faaaack you Bradric with this math sht". Stay with me guys lol! Using myself as an example: Assault G/1-Series: 8,040 isk - Federation Assault G/1-Series: 1,206 isk 80LP = A difference in isk of: 6,834 isk GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 10,770 isk - Federation GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 1,615 isk 55LP = A difference in isk of: 9,155 isk You save 15,989 isk from a potentially 40,000 isk dropsuit in just dropsuit and weapon! For the lamen: 100 Assault G/1-Series: 804,000 isk 100 Federation Assault G/1 Series: 120,600 isk 8,000 LP In FW with a booster active that's 2 wins, or 8 losses at lvl 8 faction standing. This is why more of you SHOULD run FW! Ok, enough examples, THE PROBLEM! The problem in both pubs and FW is not easily answered, but some easy fixes are ones that can be solved both by CCP and the players! PLAYERS! STOP Q SYNCING! The wait timers is what kills FW! I can't be anymore clear with this, IF YOU Q SYNC ONE FACTION THE OTHER FACTION LEAVES!!!! They essentially go back to the pubs, Faaack your Q sync, and you get to wait 30 mins for a battle because you're a bunch of A-holes! It's really that simple! No new bros stand a chance against you PC A-team in FW?! Go in 4 to 8-man squads, and they will too! Have challenging battles that require team work and tactics! Not winning by default because the other team refuses to be pro stomped?! "Well, why don't they stomp/Q sync back?" "Get Gud!" "Other privileged excuses".... Because they are NEW you moron! They want to play more than 3 matches in 6 hours?! They only have 8 in corp?! They only have reached advanced gear?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:20:00 - [2] - Quote The CCP fix! Proto stomping is the result of one team with multiple members on comms in proto gear, against another team not on comms in basic or advanced gear, simple. They, the stomped, either can not or will not us proto in pubs so the match can be a loss?! They don't have help, or if they do it's the other 3 guys in squad with them. They don't want to waste precious isk outnumbered 8v16?! CCP, either lower the price of pro gear, or raise payouts! The first is simple, and has worked in the past! The Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle used to cost 77k, and was largely unused due to price tag. It was lowered to the price of the Duvolle Assault Rifle, and is now in full rotation lol! Simple economics! A stomped player will be more willing to stop/stand up to the stomp if he can afford to match them in gear, numbers, and tactics. There are many variables why they will not in some cases i.e. SP level, EXP, KD padding, etc., But isk shouldn't be one of those reasons! The second option is change the payout system! We understand how it is setup currently, but how do we make sure everyone gets paid for their efforts? Currently I can make 200k for sprinting around in a scout dropping links, and then reporting to the redline and waiting for the match to be over?! Meanwhile, Bradric is going ham on the point 22/12/8 killed two tanks, and a dropship only to get 280k on a loss?! This payout system is down right disrespectful?! Shouldn't that guy going nuts for the W be paid accordingly for services rendered, or naw? The Heavy/logi team should be appropriately labeled the logi/slave team?! The Logi will always get more isk like the heavy was doing Faaack ALL! Shouldn't they be getting the same pay, or atleast close? It was a TEAM effort right? Logi can't rep thin air?! The assault protecting that team also dies tons doing so! Payout garbage at 225k when he lost 11 45k dropsuits?! Is CCP bad at math too? In Dust514 you will DIE! I saw a guy running pro in pub yesterday go 20/1 in a battle they lost because as soon as he died during the mid part of battle he backed off because he was either KD padding or counting losses?! His team was down a man or 4 because they couldn't stop the push back into the A dom point with 11 guys and 5 redline snipers?! It was a bloodbath where no one on either team, with the exception of a logi or 2, made positive isk gain. It was fun, but ultimately a waste?! CCP, I can coach guys on economy all day, but the facts remain that our payout system is outdated as Faack! Can you help your community manage a little better? Saxonmish got a video of "how to make isk in dust" on youtube... the key to the video was the rep tool... "Anybody order chaos?"
Soto Gallente 259	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:30:00 - [3] - Quote Quote: CCP, I know you're busy, but I must continue to remind you of an issue in our payout/gear cost system. Currently, and correct me if i'm wrong here, it's a payout pool system where the top players, regardless of effort, gets paid the biggest payout in the pool. The Pool is split in two between both teams, the winning team receives the larger portion, and then again it is split up amongst your 16, 13, or 8 members.... matchmaking dependent.... Payout in pubs is dependent on 4 factors (in order of least important to most important): 1. Whether you win or lose 2. What place you make ie. 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc 3. How much isk you lost 4. How much of an effort you put into the battle Quote: They often run free suits, which means death and a 90% rate of battle loss, or they stay in the redline and watch the defeat?! A good fix to this is to add team and squad chats back in the battle, meaning a blueberry can join squads at will. This is increases the amount blueberries can do, because they can now become coordinated. Quote: PLAYERS! STOP Q SYNCING! The wait timers is what kills FW! I can't be anymore clear with this, IF YOU Q SYNC ONE FACTION THE OTHER FACTION LEAVES!!!! They essentially go back to the pubs, Faaack your Q sync, and you get to wait 30 mins for a battle because you're a bunch of A-holes! No, one of the reasons players q sync fw in the first place is BECAUSE of the long wait times. Another reason is because it lets corporations practice their PC tactics and lets them figure out how to work together better. Ex-news reporter for The Scope
Soto Gallente 259	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:34:00 - [4] - Quote Quote: CCP, either lower the price of pro gear, or raise payouts! The first is simple, and has worked in the past! The Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle used to cost 77k, and was largely unused due to price tag. It was lowered to the price of the Duvolle Assault Rifle, and is now in full rotation lol! Simple economics! I think this should be for all gear, it would encourage teams to try their best to win. Final sentiments: This is an MMO before an fps. MMOs are often sandboxes and despite what many believe, Dust IS a sandbox. In a sandbox anyone can encounter anyone, and it SHOULD be unfair a lot of the time, because that is how sandboxes and MMOs work. Ex-news reporter for The Scope
Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:37:00 - [5] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: Quote: CCP, I know you're busy, but I must continue to remind you of an issue in our payout/gear cost system. Currently, and correct me if i'm wrong here, it's a payout pool system where the top players, regardless of effort, gets paid the biggest payout in the pool. The Pool is split in two between both teams, the winning team receives the larger portion, and then again it is split up amongst your 16, 13, or 8 members.... matchmaking dependent.... Payout in pubs is dependent on 4 factors (in order of least important to most important): 1. Whether you win or lose 2. What place you make ie. 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc 3. How much isk you lost 4. How much of an effort you put into the battle But what about when the 8th guy on the leaderboard still went 16/8/8 w/ 1300 wp's EXAMPLE! He's going to make 198k for placement, not effort?! This leads to more WP whring, and less fighting for the win and competition on your own team amongst team mates for 1st place. Quote:* They often run free suits, which means death and a 90% rate of battle loss, or they stay in the redline and watch the defeat?! A good fix to this is to add team and squad chats back in the battle, meaning a blueberry can join squads at will. This is increases the amount blueberries can do, because they can now become coordinated. Quote: True, and this can help greatly! Not really sure why we lost that feature?! PLAYERS! STOP Q SYNCING! The wait timers is what kills FW! I can't be anymore clear with this, IF YOU Q SYNC ONE FACTION THE OTHER FACTION LEAVES!!!! They essentially go back to the pubs, Faaack your Q sync, and you get to wait 30 mins for a battle because you're a bunch of A-holes! No, one of the reasons players q sync fw in the first place is BECAUSE of the long wait times. Another reason is because it lets corporations practice their PC tactics and lets them figure out how to work together better. In my opinion, 16 guys on the enemy redline shooting militia fits as they pop up isn't training anything you'll do in PC.... "Anybody order chaos?"
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:42:00 - [6] - Quote You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:43:00 - [7] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: Quote: CCP, either lower the price of pro gear, or raise payouts! The first is simple, and has worked in the past! The Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle used to cost 77k, and was largely unused due to price tag. It was lowered to the price of the Duvolle Assault Rifle, and is now in full rotation lol! Simple economics! I think this should be for all gear, it would encourage teams to try their best to win. Final sentiments: This is an MMO before an fps. MMOs are often sandboxes and despite what many believe, Dust IS a sandbox. In a sandbox anyone can encounter anyone, and it SHOULD be unfair a lot of the time, because that is how sandboxes and MMOs work. This is true, and i'm not looking for fair fights. I'm looking to not be REQUIRED to run a rep tool to go positive?! I get outnumbered often, or killed by higher tier gear. That's not the issue. The issue is at the end of the battle I am just as capable of sniping from the redline, hitting no one, and making 200k, as the guy who defended the point the entire match?! It's as broken as myos where guys are ACTUALLY telling me to just run 3 myos because everything else I do has been made obsolete by the jumpy/punchy/MD fit?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Soto Gallente 262	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:53:00 - [8] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: Quote: CCP, either lower the price of pro gear, or raise payouts! The first is simple, and has worked in the past! The Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle used to cost 77k, and was largely unused due to price tag. It was lowered to the price of the Duvolle Assault Rifle, and is now in full rotation lol! Simple economics! I think this should be for all gear, it would encourage teams to try their best to win. Final sentiments: This is an MMO before an fps. MMOs are often sandboxes and despite what many believe, Dust IS a sandbox. In a sandbox anyone can encounter anyone, and it SHOULD be unfair a lot of the time, because that is how sandboxes and MMOs work. This is true, and i'm not looking for fair fights. I'm looking to not be REQUIRED to run a rep tool to go positive?! I get outnumbered often, or killed by higher tier gear. That's not the issue. The issue is at the end of the battle I am just as capable of sniping from the redline, hitting no one, and making 200k, as the guy who defended the point the entire match?! It's as broken as myos where guys are ACTUALLY telling me to just run 3 myos because everything else I do has been made obsolete by the jumpy/punchy/MD fit?! You don't have to run a rep tool to go isk positive. I run starter fits EVERY SINGLE PUB match I play, because I'm all about making isk. You know what my average payout and average profit is? 300k payout, 300k profit. It is impossible to redline snipe and not get any kills and still make 200k, I know, I tried it once. Didn't work. Myo fits are often easy to take out, and I personally believe that it was easier to get melee kills before their supposed "buff". If anything, in my opinion they train us how to aim vertically, and this not only helps with taking out jumpy fits, but also firing back at high ground campers. The best way to make isk is to run all free stuff, you can make 5 mil a day using that method. Also, I believe that Dust does not need better matchmaking, in fact, I believe that Dust shouldn't have matchmaking in the first place. But I believe that there should be better tutorials for our blueberries, guides on how to do specific things, actual training maps where you can try out different weapons and methods without being killed. Ex-news reporter for The Scope
Soto Gallente 262	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:54:00 - [9] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: Quote: CCP, I know you're busy, but I must continue to remind you of an issue in our payout/gear cost system. Currently, and correct me if i'm wrong here, it's a payout pool system where the top players, regardless of effort, gets paid the biggest payout in the pool. The Pool is split in two between both teams, the winning team receives the larger portion, and then again it is split up amongst your 16, 13, or 8 members.... matchmaking dependent.... Payout in pubs is dependent on 4 factors (in order of least important to most important): 1. Whether you win or lose 2. What place you make ie. 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc 3. How much isk you lost 4. How much of an effort you put into the battle Quote: But what about when the 8th guy on the leaderboard still went 16/8/8 w/ 1300 wp's EXAMPLE! He's going to make 198k for placement, not effort?! This leads to more WP whring, and less fighting for the win and competition on your own team amongst team mates for 1st place. They often run free suits, which means death and a 90% rate of battle loss, or they stay in the redline and watch the defeat?! A good fix to this is to add team and squad chats back in the battle, meaning a blueberry can join squads at will. This is increases the amount blueberries can do, because they can now become coordinated. Quote:* True, and this can help greatly! Not really sure why we lost that feature?! PLAYERS! STOP Q SYNCING! The wait timers is what kills FW! I can't be anymore clear with this, IF YOU Q SYNC ONE FACTION THE OTHER FACTION LEAVES!!!! They essentially go back to the pubs, Faaack your Q sync, and you get to wait 30 mins for a battle because you're a bunch of A-holes! No, one of the reasons players q sync fw in the first place is BECAUSE of the long wait times. Another reason is because it lets corporations practice their PC tactics and lets them figure out how to work together better. In my opinion, 16 guys on the enemy redline shooting militia fits as they pop up isn't training anything you'll do in PC.... Actually it is, it teaches containment and keeping the enemy at a certain place. This is New Eden boys, kill or be killed, stomp or be stomped. We aren't playing for fun, we are playing for keeps. Ex-news reporter for The Scope
Soto Gallente 262	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:56:00 - [10] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Ex-news reporter for The Scope

Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:00:00 - [11] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Exactly the problem! I have 100+ mil SP! I don't care about SP so what's to stop a player like me from afking screwing over the blues every match? A place on the leaderboard shouldn't be the sum of your payout. My opinion "Anybody order chaos?"
Soto Gallente 262	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:00:00 - [12] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Exactly the problem! I have 100+ mil SP! I don't care about SP so what's to stop a player like me from afking screwing over the blues every match? A place on the leaderboard shouldn't be the sum of your payout. My opinion I agree with you, I think payout should be payed either entirely, or mostly on effort and nothing else. Ex-news reporter for The Scope
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:06:00 - [13] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Wrong. As I stated there are 2 payouts. 1 for the percent of team WP you had. 1 for time in battle. See here. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/ Current Scenario: Your team receives 100k ISK from the prize pool The team has a total of 25k WP. You ran logi and have 5k WP You have 20% of team WP so you receive 20% of the team payout. You spent 600 seconds in battle. You receive 600 * 10 ISK. Please remember all above numbers are fake for the purpose of explanation. So you see payouts are determined by effort but effort is determined by WP and logis are able to pump up their WP at insane speeds causing them to receive a disproportionate amount. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
Soto Gallente 262	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:11:00 - [14] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Wrong. As I stated there are 2 payouts. 1 for the percent of team WP you had. 1 for time in battle. See here. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/ Current Scenario: Your team receives 100k ISK from the prize pool The team has a total of 25k WP. You ran logi and have 5k WP You have 20% of team WP so you receive 20% of the team payout. You spent 600 seconds in battle. You receive 600 * 10 ISK. Please remember all above numbers are fake for the purpose of explanation. So you see payouts are determined by effort but effort is determined by WP and logis are able to pump up their WP at insane speeds causing them to receive a disproportionate amount. That information is outdated. Do research and I might see reasoning. In fact, I will test this as soon as possible. Ex-news reporter for The Scope
Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:16:00 - [15] - Quote All to rarely I see Q sync's get met by Q sync's, and get crushed because killing militia is different from fighting coordinated vets! No wonder there are so many no shows in PC. What i'm saying, and agreeing with you on, is THIS IS A SANDBOX! However, no sane person will keep trying to fight against Q sync's once they're spotted. Leaving wait times as a whole far longer than necessary over time. Remember when you could get in a FW battle in 3 mins tops? Yeah, those days are long gone because the community as whole plays very little FW?! For those of us with limited time online Doms are fast and furious so we Queue them up all day?! I don't like dom, but I need to see profit over time, finish missions, and train troops. So 4-man Dom squad it is. When I do play Gal FW we go 8-man v the world excepting all challengers, but usually end up playing the EXACT same guys over and over or waiting for 20 mins a match?! New guys see that Tag on all 16 enemy in the warbarge, and they start leaving before the battle starts lol! You can't train like that! You wanna train for PC you gotta use that CP! The no shows are at ridiculously high number, but guys 16 deep waiting for Scotty messages in FW LMAO! How about fighting a PC, getting your *sses kicked, arguing and hammering out tactics and strategy, and doing it again and again until you become a team that can win? For corps with no districts 150 clones is basically isk free! You send the CP anyway on no shows, right? How about showing up truly trying to win! Not like Planetary Response Organization who just sends the equivalent of district locks because they refuse to actually try?! They got CP for days all the time, but no one wants to truly "train for PC". They want to get free LP killing militia fits on the redline in officer gear in FW?! "Anybody order chaos?"
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:18:00 - [16] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Wrong. As I stated there are 2 payouts. 1 for the percent of team WP you had. 1 for time in battle. See here. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/ Current Scenario: Your team receives 100k ISK from the prize pool The team has a total of 25k WP. You ran logi and have 5k WP You have 20% of team WP so you receive 20% of the team payout. You spent 600 seconds in battle. You receive 600 * 10 ISK. Please remember all above numbers are fake for the purpose of explanation. So you see payouts are determined by effort but effort is determined by WP and logis are able to pump up their WP at insane speeds causing them to receive a disproportionate amount. That information is outdated. Do research and I might see reasoning. In fact, I will test this as soon as possible. Test away. Go time a battle and do not leave the MCC. You will receive somewhere in the area of 15k ISK depending on how long the battle goes. Divide your payout by the seconds in battle to get the base pay. Join a battle, time that battle, and earn only 100 points. Multiply the time in battle by the base pay you obtained from the last battle and subtract this from your payout. This will give you your battle reward. Calculate your teams total WP and figure out what % your 100 WP was. Use this percent and the battle reward to figure out the total earned by your team. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:22:00 - [17] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Wrong. As I stated there are 2 payouts. 1 for the percent of team WP you had. 1 for time in battle. See here. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/ Current Scenario: Your team receives 100k ISK from the prize pool The team has a total of 25k WP. You ran logi and have 5k WP You have 20% of team WP so you receive 20% of the team payout. You spent 600 seconds in battle. You receive 600 * 10 ISK. Please remember all above numbers are fake for the purpose of explanation. So you see payouts are determined by effort but effort is determined by WP and logis are able to pump up their WP at insane speeds causing them to receive a disproportionate amount. That information is outdated. Do research and I might see reasoning. In fact, I will test this as soon as possible. Test away. Go time a battle and do not leave the MCC. You will receive somewhere in the area of 15k ISK depending on how long the battle goes. Divide your payout by the seconds in battle to get the base pay. Join a battle, time that battle, and earn only 100 points. Multiply the time in battle by the base pay you obtained from the last battle and subtract this from your payout. This will give you your battle reward. Calculate your teams total WP and figure out what % your 100 WP was. Use this percent and the battle reward to figure out the total earned by your team. Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?! "Anybody order chaos?"
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:27:00 - [18] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?! The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based). o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
Soto Gallente 264	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:29:00 - [19] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?! The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based). There is incentive to win. The amount you get for afking is NOTHING compared to what you would make if you even put a 50% effort in, much less a 100% effort. Ex-news reporter for The Scope
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:33:00 - [20] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?! The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based). There is incentive to win. The amount you get for afking is NOTHING compared to what you would make if you even put a 50% effort in, much less a 100% effort. Yes but the difference for being on the winning and losing team specifically when you are not a logi sucking up most of the team ISK is absolutely negligible. It certainly is not enough difference to cover even a couple of advanced suits to continue trying to win. What ends up happening is everyone that is worried about ISK basically knows their break even point no matter win or loss and once they have lost that they go AFK or switch to basically free gear which ends up leading to a loss anyway. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.

Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:33:00 - [21] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?! The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based). There is incentive to win. The amount you get for afking is NOTHING compared to what you would make if you even put a 50% effort in, much less a 100% effort. What i'm trying to get to is 100% effort, 16 v 16, all day and night! I've been playing on the euro servers lately because for some reason they have 16 v 16 fights consistently, but on the american servers 8 v 16?! Not trying to lag anyone out on the euro server, but they FIGHT! HARD! The american server is plagued by laggy latin americans, and quitters?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Soto Gallente 265	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:38:00 - [22] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?! The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based). There is incentive to win. The amount you get for afking is NOTHING compared to what you would make if you even put a 50% effort in, much less a 100% effort. What i'm trying to get to is 100% effort, 16 v 16, all day and night! I've been playing on the euro servers lately because for some reason they have 16 v 16 fights consistently, but on the american servers 8 v 16?! Not trying to lag anyone out on the euro server, but they FIGHT! HARD! The american server is plagued by laggy latin americans, and quitters?! For your last statement, I believe that the "quitting plague" is partly due to frequent disconnects as well as quitters. However, the disconnected "should" be fixed in February Ex-news reporter for The Scope
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 21:54:00 - [23] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: For your last statement, I believe that the "quitting plague" is partly due to frequent disconnects as well as quitters. However, the disconnected "should" be fixed in February The real quitters are the ones that leave as soon as they see the leaderboard because they and their squad know they may actually have to risk something. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.18 23:58:00 - [24] - Quote So guys see it +1 "Anybody order chaos?"
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:08:00 - [25] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: So guys see it +1 I have been ranting on def ears for well over a year about payouts being seriously broken. The issue is as soon as you say payouts are broken everyone divides into 2 groups. 1. Payouts are great. Everyone GIT GUD. (These are the rich guys stomping everyone) 2. RAISE PAYOUTS. (These are the poor guys) It is hard being a billionaire and still realizing the broken nature of the system. I just don't fit in any where. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
Bradric Banewolf Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1	Posted - 2016.01.19 18:39:00 - [26] - Quote +1 "Anybody order chaos?"
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.19 18:48:00 - [27] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: +1 Generally that's called a shameless bump but we will go with +1. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 271	Posted - 2016.01.20 00:32:00 - [28] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: Quote: CCP, I know you're busy, but I must continue to remind you of an issue in our payout/gear cost system. Currently, and correct me if i'm wrong here, it's a payout pool system where the top players, regardless of effort, gets paid the biggest payout in the pool. The Pool is split in two between both teams, the winning team receives the larger portion, and then again it is split up amongst your 16, 13, or 8 members.... matchmaking dependent.... Payout in pubs is dependent on 4 factors (in order of least important to most important): 1. Whether you win or lose 2. What place you make ie. 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc 3. How much isk you lost 4. How much of an effort you put into the battle Quote: They often run free suits, which means death and a 90% rate of battle loss, or they stay in the redline and watch the defeat?! A good fix to this is to add team and squad chats back in the battle, meaning a blueberry can join squads at will. This is increases the amount blueberries can do, because they can now become coordinated. Quote: PLAYERS! STOP Q SYNCING! The wait timers is what kills FW! I can't be anymore clear with this, IF YOU Q SYNC ONE FACTION THE OTHER FACTION LEAVES!!!! They essentially go back to the pubs, Faaack your Q sync, and you get to wait 30 mins for a battle because you're a bunch of A-holes! No, one of the reasons players q sync fw in the first place is BECAUSE of the long wait times. Another reason is because it lets corporations practice their PC tactics and lets them figure out how to work together better. This may be true but there is no doubt that Q Syncing will add to the problem. Also, PC is the best place to practice PC tactics. FW is bad enough without having people treating it like PC.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 273	Posted - 2016.01.20 00:38:00 - [29] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: Actually it is, it teaches containment and keeping the enemy at a certain place. This is New Eden boys, kill or be killed, stomp or be stomped. We aren't playing for fun, we are playing for keeps. ... which is why the NPE is so awful...
Soto Gallente 273	Posted - 2016.01.20 00:44:00 - [30] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: Actually it is, it teaches containment and keeping the enemy at a certain place. This is New Eden boys, kill or be killed, stomp or be stomped. We aren't playing for fun, we are playing for keeps. ... which is why the NPE is so awful... New Player Experience shouldn't consist of vets treating new players nicely. It should consist of good tutorials and places where new players can train. But this is an MMO, anything can happen. Ex-news reporter for The Scope



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