DUST Search - Which shall it be? Gear price or payouts?

Soto Gallente wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

Soto Gallente wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

You are very correct in a change being needed.

The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other.

The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team.

An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward.

So what issues does this leave?

Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players.

AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle.

The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small.

So what is the easiest fix?

Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest.

Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract.

Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal.

Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear.

Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of.

Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle.

Wrong.

As I stated there are 2 payouts.

1 for the percent of team WP you had.

1 for time in battle.

See here.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/

Current Scenario:

Your team receives 100k ISK from the prize pool

The team has a total of 25k WP.

You ran logi and have 5k WP

You have 20% of team WP so you receive 20% of the team payout.

You spent 600 seconds in battle. You receive 600 * 10 ISK.

Please remember all above numbers are fake for the purpose of explanation.

So you see payouts are determined by effort but effort is determined by WP and logis are able to pump up their WP at insane speeds causing them to receive a disproportionate amount.

That information is outdated.

Do research and I might see reasoning. In fact, I will test this as soon as possible.


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deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 19:42:00 - [1] - Quote You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:06:00 - [2] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Wrong. As I stated there are 2 payouts. 1 for the percent of team WP you had. 1 for time in battle. See here. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/ Current Scenario: Your team receives 100k ISK from the prize pool The team has a total of 25k WP. You ran logi and have 5k WP You have 20% of team WP so you receive 20% of the team payout. You spent 600 seconds in battle. You receive 600 * 10 ISK. Please remember all above numbers are fake for the purpose of explanation. So you see payouts are determined by effort but effort is determined by WP and logis are able to pump up their WP at insane speeds causing them to receive a disproportionate amount. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:18:00 - [3] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You are very correct in a change being needed. The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other. The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team. An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward. So what issues does this leave? Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players. AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle. The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small. So what is the easiest fix? Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest. Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract. Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal. Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Wrong. As I stated there are 2 payouts. 1 for the percent of team WP you had. 1 for time in battle. See here. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/ Current Scenario: Your team receives 100k ISK from the prize pool The team has a total of 25k WP. You ran logi and have 5k WP You have 20% of team WP so you receive 20% of the team payout. You spent 600 seconds in battle. You receive 600 * 10 ISK. Please remember all above numbers are fake for the purpose of explanation. So you see payouts are determined by effort but effort is determined by WP and logis are able to pump up their WP at insane speeds causing them to receive a disproportionate amount. That information is outdated. Do research and I might see reasoning. In fact, I will test this as soon as possible. Test away. Go time a battle and do not leave the MCC. You will receive somewhere in the area of 15k ISK depending on how long the battle goes. Divide your payout by the seconds in battle to get the base pay. Join a battle, time that battle, and earn only 100 points. Multiply the time in battle by the base pay you obtained from the last battle and subtract this from your payout. This will give you your battle reward. Calculate your teams total WP and figure out what % your 100 WP was. Use this percent and the battle reward to figure out the total earned by your team. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:27:00 - [4] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?! The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based). o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 20:33:00 - [5] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?! The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based). There is incentive to win. The amount you get for afking is NOTHING compared to what you would make if you even put a 50% effort in, much less a 100% effort. Yes but the difference for being on the winning and losing team specifically when you are not a logi sucking up most of the team ISK is absolutely negligible. It certainly is not enough difference to cover even a couple of advanced suits to continue trying to win. What ends up happening is everyone that is worried about ISK basically knows their break even point no matter win or loss and once they have lost that they go AFK or switch to basically free gear which ends up leading to a loss anyway. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.18 21:54:00 - [6] - Quote Soto Gallente wrote: For your last statement, I believe that the "quitting plague" is partly due to frequent disconnects as well as quitters. However, the disconnected "should" be fixed in February The real quitters are the ones that leave as soon as they see the leaderboard because they and their squad know they may actually have to risk something. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.19 00:08:00 - [7] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: So guys see it +1 I have been ranting on def ears for well over a year about payouts being seriously broken. The issue is as soon as you say payouts are broken everyone divides into 2 groups. 1. Payouts are great. Everyone GIT GUD. (These are the rich guys stomping everyone) 2. RAISE PAYOUTS. (These are the poor guys) It is hard being a billionaire and still realizing the broken nature of the system. I just don't fit in any where. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.19 18:48:00 - [8] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: +1 Generally that's called a shameless bump but we will go with +1. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.