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Soto Gallente
259
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Posted - 2016.01.18 19:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:CCP, I know you're busy, but I must continue to remind you of an issue in our payout/gear cost system. Currently, and correct me if i'm wrong here, it's a payout pool system where the top players, regardless of effort, gets paid the biggest payout in the pool. The Pool is split in two between both teams, the winning team receives the larger portion, and then again it is split up amongst your 16, 13, or 8 members.... matchmaking dependent....
Payout in pubs is dependent on 4 factors (in order of least important to most important): 1. Whether you win or lose 2. What place you make ie. 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc 3. How much isk you lost 4. How much of an effort you put into the battle
Quote:They often run free suits, which means death and a 90% rate of battle loss, or they stay in the redline and watch the defeat?!
A good fix to this is to add team and squad chats back in the battle, meaning a blueberry can join squads at will. This is increases the amount blueberries can do, because they can now become coordinated.
Quote:
PLAYERS!
STOP Q SYNCING! The wait timers is what kills FW! I can't be anymore clear with this, IF YOU Q SYNC ONE FACTION THE OTHER FACTION LEAVES!!!! They essentially go back to the pubs, Faaack your Q sync, and you get to wait 30 mins for a battle because you're a bunch of A-holes!
No, one of the reasons players q sync fw in the first place is BECAUSE of the long wait times. Another reason is because it lets corporations practice their PC tactics and lets them figure out how to work together better.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
259
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Posted - 2016.01.18 19:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:
CCP, either lower the price of pro gear, or raise payouts! The first is simple, and has worked in the past! The Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle used to cost 77k, and was largely unused due to price tag. It was lowered to the price of the Duvolle Assault Rifle, and is now in full rotation lol! Simple economics!
I think this should be for all gear, it would encourage teams to try their best to win.
Final sentiments:
This is an MMO before an fps. MMOs are often sandboxes and despite what many believe, Dust IS a sandbox. In a sandbox anyone can encounter anyone, and it SHOULD be unfair a lot of the time, because that is how sandboxes and MMOs work.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
262
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Posted - 2016.01.18 19:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Quote:
CCP, either lower the price of pro gear, or raise payouts! The first is simple, and has worked in the past! The Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle used to cost 77k, and was largely unused due to price tag. It was lowered to the price of the Duvolle Assault Rifle, and is now in full rotation lol! Simple economics!
I think this should be for all gear, it would encourage teams to try their best to win. Final sentiments: This is an MMO before an fps. MMOs are often sandboxes and despite what many believe, Dust IS a sandbox. In a sandbox anyone can encounter anyone, and it SHOULD be unfair a lot of the time, because that is how sandboxes and MMOs work. This is true, and i'm not looking for fair fights. I'm looking to not be REQUIRED to run a rep tool to go positive?! I get outnumbered often, or killed by higher tier gear. That's not the issue. The issue is at the end of the battle I am just as capable of sniping from the redline, hitting no one, and making 200k, as the guy who defended the point the entire match?! It's as broken as myos where guys are ACTUALLY telling me to just run 3 myos because everything else I do has been made obsolete by the jumpy/punchy/MD fit?!
You don't have to run a rep tool to go isk positive. I run starter fits EVERY SINGLE PUB match I play, because I'm all about making isk. You know what my average payout and average profit is? 300k payout, 300k profit.
It is impossible to redline snipe and not get any kills and still make 200k, I know, I tried it once. Didn't work.
Myo fits are often easy to take out, and I personally believe that it was easier to get melee kills before their supposed "buff". If anything, in my opinion they train us how to aim vertically, and this not only helps with taking out jumpy fits, but also firing back at high ground campers.
The best way to make isk is to run all free stuff, you can make 5 mil a day using that method.
Also, I believe that Dust does not need better matchmaking, in fact, I believe that Dust shouldn't have matchmaking in the first place. But I believe that there should be better tutorials for our blueberries, guides on how to do specific things, actual training maps where you can try out different weapons and methods without being killed.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
262
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Posted - 2016.01.18 19:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Quote:CCP, I know you're busy, but I must continue to remind you of an issue in our payout/gear cost system. Currently, and correct me if i'm wrong here, it's a payout pool system where the top players, regardless of effort, gets paid the biggest payout in the pool. The Pool is split in two between both teams, the winning team receives the larger portion, and then again it is split up amongst your 16, 13, or 8 members.... matchmaking dependent.... Payout in pubs is dependent on 4 factors (in order of least important to most important): 1. Whether you win or lose 2. What place you make ie. 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc 3. How much isk you lost 4. How much of an effort you put into the battle Quote:
But what about when the 8th guy on the leaderboard still went 16/8/8 w/ 1300 wp's EXAMPLE! He's going to make 198k for placement, not effort?! This leads to more WP wh*ring, and less fighting for the win and competition on your own team amongst team mates for 1st place.
They often run free suits, which means death and a 90% rate of battle loss, or they stay in the redline and watch the defeat?!
A good fix to this is to add team and squad chats back in the battle, meaning a blueberry can join squads at will. This is increases the amount blueberries can do, because they can now become coordinated. Quote:
True, and this can help greatly! Not really sure why we lost that feature?!
PLAYERS!
STOP Q SYNCING! The wait timers is what kills FW! I can't be anymore clear with this, IF YOU Q SYNC ONE FACTION THE OTHER FACTION LEAVES!!!! They essentially go back to the pubs, Faaack your Q sync, and you get to wait 30 mins for a battle because you're a bunch of A-holes!
No, one of the reasons players q sync fw in the first place is BECAUSE of the long wait times. Another reason is because it lets corporations practice their PC tactics and lets them figure out how to work together better. In my opinion, 16 guys on the enemy redline shooting militia fits as they pop up isn't training anything you'll do in PC....
Actually it is, it teaches containment and keeping the enemy at a certain place. This is New Eden boys, kill or be killed, stomp or be stomped. We aren't playing for fun, we are playing for keeps.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
262
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Posted - 2016.01.18 19:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:You are very correct in a change being needed.
The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other.
The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team.
An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward.
So what issues does this leave?
Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players.
AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle.
The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small.
So what is the easiest fix?
Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest.
Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract.
Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal.
Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear.
Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of.
Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
262
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Posted - 2016.01.18 20:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:deezy dabest wrote:You are very correct in a change being needed.
The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other.
The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team.
An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward.
So what issues does this leave?
Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players.
AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle.
The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small.
So what is the easiest fix?
Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest.
Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract.
Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal.
Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Exactly the problem! I have 100+ mil SP! I don't care about SP so what's to stop a player like me from afking screwing over the blues every match? A place on the leaderboard shouldn't be the sum of your payout. My opinion
I agree with you, I think payout should be payed either entirely, or mostly on effort and nothing else.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
262
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Posted - 2016.01.18 20:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:deezy dabest wrote:You are very correct in a change being needed.
The issue is they have built up a system where something always offsets the other.
The prize pool is a total of ISK destroyed in battle. This is then divided to the teams based on win or loss. Once a team payout is determined the percentage of that ISK received is directly related to your percentage of WP contributed to the team.
An extra payout is given per second in battle which goes on top of the actual battle reward.
So what issues does this leave?
Logis generate huge sums of WP causing them to take money directly from the mid to lower players.
AFKers receive a free payout just for sitting in battle.
The gap between payout on a win or loss is too small.
So what is the easiest fix?
Remove the time in battle payout. It is a joke and only stands to reward AFKing even if it is in the slightest.
Add a set reward for victory on top. It only stands to reason that a corp would pay a bonus for the successful completion of a contract.
Remove the single prize pool. Each team shares the money that the other team lost based on their WP. Just like in PC but with a WP stipulation for dispersal.
Increase the NPC value of officer gear. This is the value that the other team would receive for killing officer gear. Actually, just pointing something out. SP is far more valuable than isk, and afkers do not receive SP. So that is already taken care of. Also, they are not payed for their time in battle, they are actually payed for what place they took in battle. Wrong. As I stated there are 2 payouts. 1 for the percent of team WP you had. 1 for time in battle. See here. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/12/11/dust-514-war-and-profit/Current Scenario: Your team receives 100k ISK from the prize pool The team has a total of 25k WP. You ran logi and have 5k WP You have 20% of team WP so you receive 20% of the team payout. You spent 600 seconds in battle. You receive 600 * 10 ISK. Please remember all above numbers are fake for the purpose of explanation. So you see payouts are determined by effort but effort is determined by WP and logis are able to pump up their WP at insane speeds causing them to receive a disproportionate amount.
That information is outdated.
Do research and I might see reasoning. In fact, I will test this as soon as possible.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
264
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Posted - 2016.01.18 20:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Bradric Banewolf wrote:
Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?!
The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based).
There is incentive to win.
The amount you get for afking is NOTHING compared to what you would make if you even put a 50% effort in, much less a 100% effort.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
265
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Posted - 2016.01.18 20:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Bradric Banewolf wrote:
Yeah, looking at it this way it's actually pretty sad smh?!
The issue is it gives no incentive to win and rewards pro stomping to tear through the few people that actually try to fight you. It provides a safety net because even your ISK destroyed comes back to your team. My solution is the best solution because it rewards continuing to fight and makes it economic to run proto versus proto while making it a serious loss to use proto to stomp a bunch of MLT and Basic suits. They already proved the concept in PC and just need to make that payout effort based (aka WP based). There is incentive to win. The amount you get for afking is NOTHING compared to what you would make if you even put a 50% effort in, much less a 100% effort. What i'm trying to get to is 100% effort, 16 v 16, all day and night! I've been playing on the euro servers lately because for some reason they have 16 v 16 fights consistently, but on the american servers 8 v 16?! Not trying to lag anyone out on the euro server, but they FIGHT! HARD! The american server is plagued by laggy latin americans, and quitters?!
For your last statement, I believe that the "quitting plague" is partly due to frequent disconnects as well as quitters. However, the disconnected "should" be fixed in February
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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Soto Gallente
273
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Posted - 2016.01.20 00:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Actually it is, it teaches containment and keeping the enemy at a certain place. This is New Eden boys, kill or be killed, stomp or be stomped. We aren't playing for fun, we are playing for keeps. ... which is why the NPE is so awful...
New Player Experience shouldn't consist of vets treating new players nicely. It should consist of good tutorials and places where new players can train.
But this is an MMO, anything can happen.
Ex-news reporter for The Scope
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