DUST Search - The Problems with The Recruiting Reward System

byte modal wrote:

I like the idea of recruiter skins being given based on recruitment progress and/or number of recruits employed. At that level, I can't imagine players needing anything gearwise. Too, it's more or less a passive gain while the recruit is doing the legwork of progression. Very generically: recruit X amount of players you get a skin. If Y amount of players are retained and earn progression milestones, that skin is updated with a stripe or progressively unique design. That way you can wear and show off how many followers you have or whatever. The skin is continually replaced as your numbers go up. Perhaps at a certain point you get a vehicle skin of your choice with similar progressive markings.

Perhaps stripes would be automatically removed if players that have been recruited quit and are not replaced. Email notifications could be automatic to the recruiter to say that you are no longer meeting satisfactory requirements. 12 of your recruits are AWOL. Please investigate the matter or fill the void with more recruits, or risk the penalty of merit demotion. You have 30 days of this notice to comply. Where one stripe is removed for each drop below milestone targets, or vehicle skin access is restricted depending on tier. The risk of demotion would be the motivation to continue to actively recruit and possibly play WITH recruits to help them earn their achievements so that you as recruiter can earn yours.

This gain is a passive gain and would not affect gameplay for the recruiter, but allows bragging rights and visible achievements for those willing to make the effort. Skins and achievements seem important to the community, so there's that motivation. Perhaps add a leaderboard for both number and progression stats of recruits under the recruiter.

For the recruit, rewards should be obtainable quickly---at least to start---to introduce the concept of more play=more stuff. Low end access to1- and 3-day boosters, stockpiles of gear that would actually be practical for their player level to achievement milestone, and later maybe warbarge components to get them in that mindset too?

Where the breaks are, I couldn't guess, and I'm not sure on how to track progress. Maybe goals could be tied to PVE of sorts, similar to daily missions, but longer term of course. Hack 50, 100, 200, 400 objectives for stock of progressive tiers of hack-related rewards; destroy 50, 100, 200, 400 vehicles for stock of incremental AV gear; join and actively logi your squad (this one could be based on WP) for logi equipment; etc. At a certain point, rewards stop simply because the objective is to encourage recruits into various roles on the field. Each achievement could be tracked by the recruit as mentioned earlier, by a progression bar similar to your daily login bonus. You could create a hell of a lot of achievements to chase---one for each weapon, if you really need that idea of infinite progression. The recruiter would not see that level of detail, just total % progression. For ever 25% of total achievements gained, maybe a stripe is added. I don't know the numbers or care to think on that level. Just spit-balling.

Hm. Maybe just 25% of the TOTAL progression of all recruits. That way, recruiter achievements are actually difficult. You can't just keep recruiting alts to game the merit system. The more recruits, the higher the relative requirement. Or something along those lines. That can be a negative too cuz it might negate the motivation to recruit more if the goalpost keeps moving. Hell if I know. Just thoughts while at work.

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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.06 07:47:00 - [1] - Quote Before I get started, let me remind everyone that I am aware that the PS3 is already coming to a close later on this year and has already seen an end of distribution in some countries. I also understand that CCP has already been working on Warlords 1.3 for a while now and that it may have already been content locked at this point. What I propose is something that should be looked into in the future should CCP finally decide to pursue Dust 514 on a new platform (PS4, PC, or both, I don't care) since this will be instrumental in helping CCP retain new players in the long run if or when they finally #PortDust514. This thread will cover the current setup for the system and how it works, what are its flaws, and how to address those flaws. How Recruiting Works (for those who didn't know it exists): First, it begins with a veteran player with an already-existing Dust account gives a link to a player who never played Dust before. Here is mine as an example: https://dust514.com/recruit/SMqy52/ When a new player creates a Dust account under that link, they are tracked in a separate page that is viewed only by the recruiter. The page tells the recruiter how many people they recruited, how many of them have reached 25,000 War Points, and how many of them have reached 100,000 War Points. What do recruits get? Here is a quote from the recruiting page: Quote: Once your Recruits create an account and log into DUST 514, theyGÇÖll receive a Recruit Assault Rifle and a 7-Day Active Skill Booster to help them kill and skill. And the more War Points they earn, the more Recruit gear theyGÇÖll unlock: Earn 25,000 War Points to light enemies up with a Recruit Submachine Gun. Earn 100,000 War Points and get a Recruit Militia Dropsuit to wear into battle. I'm going to assume CCP means BPO recruit rewards here. If anyone here is an old recruit, can you confirm this? Please and thank you. What do recruiters get? Here is a list of rewards based on two milestones. Quote: MILESTONE 1 Whenever a recruit reaches 25,000 War Points, you will get 25 copies of the deadly HK4M Shotgun. Quote: MILESTONE 2 Every time a set number of recruits reaches 100,000 War Points each, you will reach a new milestone, with better rewards. See the chart below for the milestone thresholds. Recruits/Permanent Item Rewarded/Skill Booster Rewarded 1Staff Recruiter Assault DropsuitStaff Recruiter Active Booster (1-day) 2Staff Recruiter Assault RifleStaff Recruiter Active Booster (1-day) 3Staff Recruiter Scrambler PistolStaff Recruiter Active Booster (1-day) 4Staff Recruiter Sniper RifleStaff Recruiter Active Booster (1-day) 5Staff Recruiter Laser RifleStaff Recruiter Active Booster (3-day) 10Senior Recruiter Assault C-I DropsuitSenior Recruiter Active Booster (7-day) 25Senior Recruiter Light Assault VehicleSenior Recruiter Active Booster (15-day) 50Master Recruiter Assault C-II DropsuitMaster Recruiter Active Booster (30-day) ===================================================================== Now that you see how it works and who gets what out of it, let's see what's wrong with it. 1. Clearly, the system does not have any means of tracking the progress of specific players. It is very hard for any recruiter to keep track of the individual recruits to see which ones hit a certain milestone. 2. The rewards for both the recruit and recruiter are not that enticing and I don't feel that they are enough to encourage the recruit to reach each milestone let alone encourage the recruiter to bring in more recruits for such minimal returns. Especially if some of those recruiter rewards can already be obtained via the Daily Missions with far less effort. ===================================================================== Now comes the discussion on how to address these problems. Again, keep in mind that this is mainly for when Dust 514 ever gets ported over to the next platform. So any specific ideas will have to account for possible changes that can come with a port. If CCP ports the game to the PC, this would mean a much stronger connection between Dust and the Tranquility live server. Eve Online has its own tracking system but it doesn't seem to tell you which specific players (by name) accepted the invitation. But it at least tells you the date and time it happened and then each give you a link to a reward should that player upgrade to a full subscription. The reward to the recruiter is a choice between 30 days of extra game time or 1 PLEX which they can then trade in the open market for ISK. It's not as detailed as one hopes but it gives more information regardless and the rewards are pretty good given that Eve Online is a subscription-based MMO. Something similar could be applied to Dust when it comes to information on the progress of your recruits. It would be nice if the tracking system were to somehow be implemented into the Dust client as part of the UI since not all console players have access to a computer. Assuming if Dust gets ported onto the PS4 instead of the PC. As for the rewards, they could replace the BPO items with something like SKIN modules specially made with recruiter colors. Specific colors should also reflect how active you are as a recruiter. As for the boosters, I suggest replacing them with maybe hacked decryption keys with tiered bundles based on your own milestone. Recruits could also have their rewards changed to something like being promoted to Loyalty Rank 1 if they reach 25,000 War Points or Loyalty Rank 2 if they reach 100,000 War Points. Even the best logi player getting 6,000 WPs a match will have to grind over 16 matches to get that far and that is mainly from an already-skilled logi player. But at least this makes it a little easier for new players to reach Loyalty Rank 2 if they are eager to get into trading in the open market. What do you think? Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.06 07:54:00 - [2] - Quote PS: My Eve Online invite is on my sig if any of you are interested. ;) Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
I-Shayz-I I----------I 6	Posted - 2016.01.06 08:49:00 - [3] - Quote It would be a much better system if the determining factor wasn't warpoints, and if the rewards were displayed in-game as a progress meter. For example, something similar to the daily login bonus or the daily mission tab, where you can see how far along you are progressing and what kinds of rewards are obtainable. Most new players get an average of <500 wp per match, and that progression can be stopped by stompers that push that average even lower. Something like "participate in x battles" or "skill 5 nodes to level 3"would be much more of an incentive. If there was a list of a bunch of these (say maybe 10 or so), and you were able to get a new item after completing 2, 5, and all 10...it might increase player retention. Really though, the problem seems to be more that the game doesn't give you much of a reason to play long enough to finish those large achievements. Part of that is not enough interaction between the recruiter and the new player. We could also look at a few other games that really hook players A game I'm quite addicted to atm is a rhythm game for mobile devices called School Idol Festival (don't judge). I'll refer to it as SIF While there are a lot of great aspects to the game that keep players coming back, the friends lists does more than just store player information and messaging. Before you start a song you actually have to pick one of your friends to be a "support". They don't need to be online, but every time you select them you and that person get a small amount of in-game currency as a friend bonus. Along with that player's main character support bonus is applied to the song (in Dust terms it would be like "get 10% more isk/skill points/warpoints during the next battle") Because you can only use the bonus once per day, it becomes ideal to fill up that list. This creates a more personal connection with people you might not ever talk to or interact with because you both want to benefit from those bonuses (by having lots of friends that want to use your support bonus, you can bank on the friend bonuses you get by them choosing you). Another great example is Splatoon's gear ordering. In that game, if you see someone using a piece of gear that you wish you could have, you can order it and get a similar piece of gear (not always guaranteed to have the same stats or quality). Something like a fitting share option (probably much more complicated to implement) where you can set an isk fitting up for sale to other people you have recruited/friends/people in corp, and they can buy that fitting directly from you for a mark up in isk price. The recruiter passively earns isk by recommending effective fittings, and the new players benefit from having a veteran to help them get started. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 10	Posted - 2016.01.06 11:27:00 - [4] - Quote Recruits get a MLT Caldari Frame BPO at level 2, and a MLT SMG BPO (with life 1 more damage per bullet) at level 1. They start out with a MLT AR BPO that is also slightly more powerful. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
Apoleon II Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 78	Posted - 2016.01.06 11:41:00 - [5] - Quote Sif.......... Lel Sorry for my bad english :$
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.06 19:51:00 - [6] - Quote @I-Shayz-I I agree that the WPs are a problem. Mainly because A) they are exploitable by veteran players who know what to do and B) they make it difficult for new players who don't know what to do while they protostomped by veterans. Most new players will get about 150-250 WPs per match. Just to reach the first Milestone under the current system, it will take that new player 100 matches to complete assuming he/she gets 250 WPs per match. Your idea of unlocking skill nodes seems more practical but I think I may know of a better solution. Dust currently has a Progression window in the Neocom that unlocks loadouts for you and rewards you with 5 free copies of that loadout as you unlock them. CCP could go as far as add in an additional reward for unlocking a specific set of loadouts such as a promotion in Loyalty Rank, a special BPO item obtainable only by a recruit who created the account under the link the recruiter provided, or maybe a booster. Eve Online offers something similar in the tutorial system in which items are awarded upon completion such as a new skill book, a frigate of your race, etc. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.08 05:28:00 - [7] - Quote Anyone else have any thoughts to share on this topic? Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.12 23:59:00 - [8] - Quote Awe, no one wants to talk about it? Eve Online players have no problem talking about it. :( Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2016.01.13 16:12:00 - [9] - Quote I think, that out of my 17 recruits, one stayed long enough to reward me.. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
byte modal 383	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:15:00 - [10] - Quote I like the idea of recruiter skins being given based on recruitment progress and/or number of recruits employed. At that level, I can't imagine players needing anything gearwise. Too, it's more or less a passive gain while the recruit is doing the legwork of progression. Very generically: recruit X amount of players you get a skin. If Y amount of players are retained and earn progression milestones, that skin is updated with a stripe or progressively unique design. That way you can wear and show off how many followers you have or whatever. The skin is continually replaced as your numbers go up. Perhaps at a certain point you get a vehicle skin of your choice with similar progressive markings. Perhaps stripes would be automatically removed if players that have been recruited quit and are not replaced. Email notifications could be automatic to the recruiter to say that you are no longer meeting satisfactory requirements. 12 of your recruits are AWOL. Please investigate the matter or fill the void with more recruits, or risk the penalty of merit demotion. You have 30 days of this notice to comply. Where one stripe is removed for each drop below milestone targets, or vehicle skin access is restricted depending on tier. The risk of demotion would be the motivation to continue to actively recruit and possibly play WITH recruits to help them earn their achievements so that you as recruiter can earn yours. This gain is a passive gain and would not affect gameplay for the recruiter, but allows bragging rights and visible achievements for those willing to make the effort. Skins and achievements seem important to the community, so there's that motivation. Perhaps add a leaderboard for both number and progression stats of recruits under the recruiter. For the recruit, rewards should be obtainable quickly---at least to start---to introduce the concept of more play=more stuff. Low end access to1- and 3-day boosters, stockpiles of gear that would actually be practical for their player level to achievement milestone, and later maybe warbarge components to get them in that mindset too? Where the breaks are, I couldn't guess, and I'm not sure on how to track progress. Maybe goals could be tied to PVE of sorts, similar to daily missions, but longer term of course. Hack 50, 100, 200, 400 objectives for stock of progressive tiers of hack-related rewards; destroy 50, 100, 200, 400 vehicles for stock of incremental AV gear; join and actively logi your squad (this one could be based on WP) for logi equipment; etc. At a certain point, rewards stop simply because the objective is to encourage recruits into various roles on the field. Each achievement could be tracked by the recruit as mentioned earlier, by a progression bar similar to your daily login bonus. You could create a hell of a lot of achievements to chase---one for each weapon, if you really need that idea of infinite progression. The recruiter would not see that level of detail, just total % progression. For ever 25% of total achievements gained, maybe a stripe is added. I don't know the numbers or care to think on that level. Just spit-balling. Hm. Maybe just 25% of the TOTAL progression of all recruits. That way, recruiter achievements are actually difficult. You can't just keep recruiting alts to game the merit system. The more recruits, the higher the relative requirement. Or something along those lines. That can be a negative too cuz it might negate the motivation to recruit more if the goalpost keeps moving. Hell if I know. Just thoughts while at work. kitten bacon taco (nom)

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:36:00 - [11] - Quote byte modal wrote: I like the idea of recruiter skins being given based on recruitment progress and/or number of recruits employed. At that level, I can't imagine players needing anything gearwise. Too, it's more or less a passive gain while the recruit is doing the legwork of progression. Very generically: recruit X amount of players you get a skin. If Y amount of players are retained and earn progression milestones, that skin is updated with a stripe or progressively unique design. That way you can wear and show off how many followers you have or whatever. The skin is continually replaced as your numbers go up. Perhaps at a certain point you get a vehicle skin of your choice with similar progressive markings. Perhaps stripes would be automatically removed if players that have been recruited quit and are not replaced. Email notifications could be automatic to the recruiter to say that you are no longer meeting satisfactory requirements. 12 of your recruits are AWOL. Please investigate the matter or fill the void with more recruits, or risk the penalty of merit demotion. You have 30 days of this notice to comply. Where one stripe is removed for each drop below milestone targets, or vehicle skin access is restricted depending on tier. The risk of demotion would be the motivation to continue to actively recruit and possibly play WITH recruits to help them earn their achievements so that you as recruiter can earn yours. This gain is a passive gain and would not affect gameplay for the recruiter, but allows bragging rights and visible achievements for those willing to make the effort. Skins and achievements seem important to the community, so there's that motivation. Perhaps add a leaderboard for both number and progression stats of recruits under the recruiter. For the recruit, rewards should be obtainable quickly---at least to start---to introduce the concept of more play=more stuff. Low end access to1- and 3-day boosters, stockpiles of gear that would actually be practical for their player level to achievement milestone, and later maybe warbarge components to get them in that mindset too? Where the breaks are, I couldn't guess, and I'm not sure on how to track progress. Maybe goals could be tied to PVE of sorts, similar to daily missions, but longer term of course. Hack 50, 100, 200, 400 objectives for stock of progressive tiers of hack-related rewards; destroy 50, 100, 200, 400 vehicles for stock of incremental AV gear; join and actively logi your squad (this one could be based on WP) for logi equipment; etc. At a certain point, rewards stop simply because the objective is to encourage recruits into various roles on the field. Each achievement could be tracked by the recruit as mentioned earlier, by a progression bar similar to your daily login bonus. You could create a hell of a lot of achievements to chase---one for each weapon, if you really need that idea of infinite progression. The recruiter would not see that level of detail, just total % progression. For ever 25% of total achievements gained, maybe a stripe is added. I don't know the numbers or care to think on that level. Just spit-balling. Hm. Maybe just 25% of the TOTAL progression of all recruits. That way, recruiter achievements are actually difficult. You can't just keep recruiting alts to game the merit system. The more recruits, the higher the relative requirement. Or something along those lines. That can be a negative too cuz it might negate the motivation to recruit more if the goalpost keeps moving. Hell if I know. Just thoughts while at work. Interesting idea, but I don't like the part about the recruiter having to continuously work hard to KEEP their rewards. If I earned my rewards already with hard work by recruiting people, I should keep those rewards indefinitely. If I go to a hot dog eating contest and get 1st place and then get a trophy for stuffing so much meat into my mouth but then later find out that I have to continue to stuff more hot dogs into my mouth in order to keep that reward I'm going to be pissed off. PS: Eventually the recruits becomes recruiters anyways and thus they will help continue the cycle of recruiting. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
byte modal 383	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:51:00 - [12] - Quote Fair enough. Just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, if anything. I get your feelings. Really, it was just a way to motivate perpetual recruitment. Like the military guys constantly fishing high schools to meet quota. I can see that alone becoming its own game within a game for people who like that type stuff. To keep your hot dog eating title, you would need to remain competitive next year ;) Perhaps that's too harsh a penalty, but I still think some type of positive/negative relationship would be good if balanced right. Maybe not. Interesting thread topic though. I'm curious what comes up. Oh. And I'm not even touching that whole "stuffing so much meat in my mouth" comment. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.13 17:59:00 - [13] - Quote byte modal wrote: Oh. And I'm not even touching that whole "stuffing so much meat in my mouth" comment. I have a dirty mind. http://katahu.deviantart.com/art/Rebellion01-492312197 Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.14 02:19:00 - [14] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: What do you think? The 100k WP mark is insane. Even with better NPE that is no simple task for a new berry who may earn anywhere from 0 to 250 points per match. Recruit rewards should be based on completed missions. This all around makes more sense. 10 completed missions for the part 1 reward and 25 completed missions for the big award. Giving a quick boost to level 2 to unlock trading sounds great in theory but it brings back the farming that the loyalty rank requirement was meant to stop. I actually believe trading should be linked to missions as well but hey if CCP wants to charge people $10 per farm character that is their choice. As for showing recruit info I can agree there. Not necessarily for the purposes of the rewards but so that maybe recruiters would find and help that newbie they have brought into the game. o7 All #514InTheWind !@#$!#@!$$@@#$@$!$ Snap out of the Stockholm Syndrome guys.
IMMORTAL WAR HERO NECROM0NGERS 468	Posted - 2016.01.14 02:35:00 - [15] - Quote BLAM BLAM BLAM staff pistol staff suit dren shotty Mr Cloaky Object of war is not2 die 4ur country murder bastard 4 his


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