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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.12.29 00:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have seen way too many people leaving battles before they even start. Entire squads will leave before a point is even hacked. We need to make this behavior less rewarding, and make staying in a match more rewarding. Thus, I propose a two-pronged approach. A stick to punish those who leave, and a carot for those who stay.
The Stick
Leaving battle should not be acceptable behavior. But there are all kinds of legitimate reasons for leaving: Someone got Scottyed, and the squad leaves to get them back. A friend logged on and you leave match to squad with them. You dc from a game. All kinds of things happen. So my stick will have several layers to it, to try and make sure the proper people are being punished.
For leaving one match, there will be no punishment. However, this starts a 1 hour timer, which is unseen by the player. If the player leaves another match early before this timer expires, they are unable to queue for any match , including PC, for 10 minutes. This also resets the 1 hour timer, starting once the 10 minute ban ends. If they leave another match, they are banned from queuing from all matches, again including PC, for 20 minutes. The 1 hour timer resets once the 20 minute ban expires. If the player leaves yet another match, they will be banned for another 20 minutes from all matches, with the 1 hour timer resetting after the ban ends. When the 1 hour timer is allowed to expire, the player can again leave a match without penalty... but leaving the match also starts that 1 hour timer again. All timers will run even if the player isn't logged in, to ensure we don't put too much pressure on people who are having connection problems.
What this does is give players 1 chance per hour to leave a match for whatever reason: pick up people, get ready for PC, and yes, worried about their KDRs. Any reason. But leaving again within an hour, which is likely only done by people who are scaed of the competition, are penalized by not being able to play anything at all. There will be no indication of when these timers expire: this is to make it as inconvenient as possible for habitual leavers. This will hit players who DC a lot, but no system is perfect, and it will be worth that price to ensure people want to remain in the match, no matter how hard it becomes.
The Carrot
At the same time, we need to reward players for staying in a match despite the odds. To do this, we should give them extra rewards for staying: Players gain a 3% stacking multiplier to their end-of-match winnings, maxing out at 15% extra winnings for completing 5 battles. This multiplier is reset every time a player leaves a match before its conclusion, regardless of victory or defeat, OR a player does not meet the 150 wp requirement to gain SP in a match. This is to prevent AFKing in the MCC to keep a winnings multiplier going. This multiplier will apply to pubs and FW, but not to PC, to prevent PC players from wanting to stomp pubs to build up a multiplier for PC battles.
By doing so, we reward players who stick it out to the end, for better or worse, and also allow newbros a faster means to catch up to vets in ISK/SP, as long as they stay in the matches and see them through.
With these two things, we can ensure that layers will want to stick around for matches, or at the very least ensure that players who habitually leave will be sorely inconvenienced for their cowardice. Meanwhile, staying in matches nets you more ISK, LP, and SP, meaning you actively want to see the conclusion of the game. With both of these in place, we won't stop players from leaving matches altogether, but we can motivate more players to stay in matches more often.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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benandjerrys
WarRavens Imperium Eden
1
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Posted - 2015.12.29 02:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Very well thought out. Using time for punishment and money for reward. More constructive treads like this need to happen.
Free isk! (comment with in game name)
#portdust514
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Jackkkkkkkkkkkkkkky jack
S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D General Tso's Alliance
557
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 04:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
they will just stay in mcc.... wont work lol
just found cal assault op^^
welcome to Taiwan ^^
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DIinkelFritz
The Eternal Noxium Imperium
25
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Posted - 2015.12.29 04:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jackkkkkkkkkkkkkkky jack wrote:they will just stay in mcc.... wont work lol
They already sit in MCC. I watch the map in poor games and I see maybe 8 people when it says there are 16 on the team. Simple fix is if a character hasn't received controller input for a minute or so, they are auto kicked from the game and incur the timer. If they are committed to staying, they have to stay bored and active in the MCC. Good idea. It's simple and would be effective. Something does need to be done though. Pisses me off more than lag, and that is saying something.
Committed suicide....again...
Portdust514 #Port my Dick
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TheEnd762
Molon Labe. RUST415
844
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 11:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
-Make staying more rewarding -Offer special contracts with higher rewards for joining matches already in progress and/or one-sided matches -Allow players to see who they're fighting and where BEFORE they agree to join said battle (you know, how contracts ACTUALLY work) -Perma-ban everyone who brings up players leaving matches from the forums |
Amuf Oratok
Libera nos a malo
104
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Posted - 2015.12.29 15:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
How about a Surrender option? If half of the team surrenders, the battle is over.
Merry Xmas!
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Apoleon II
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2015.12.31 01:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
I put a rubber band in the controller (after reachin 1000 WP) and start to read berserk while my character is running to a wall In the mcc :)
Sorry for my bad english :$
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Apoleon II
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2015.12.31 01:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Amuf Oratok wrote:How about a Surrender option? If half of the team surrenders, the battle is over.
Hahahahaha because the teamwork is so strong in this game, this won't work surrender you say? It's better to have a 4 vs 16 with a team that fight to the end, this fagetrender button is a bad idea
Sorry for my bad english :$
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tritan abbattere
DBAG CORE
76
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Posted - 2015.12.31 23:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 to OP
just some add on thoughts. If they stay in the MCC it counts as them leaving the game. They can request from the menu for a merc swap if they need to leave but can not leave until someone agrees to swap from the game. Could offer up isk reward for swapping.
I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 20:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Apoleon II wrote:I put a rubber band in the controller (after reachin 1000 WP) and start to read berserk while my character is running to a wall In the mcc :) So you think you are safe in there?
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Apoleon II
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
61
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 21:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Apoleon II wrote:I put a rubber band in the controller (after reachin 1000 WP) and start to read berserk while my character is running to a wall In the mcc :) So you think you are safe in there?
Yep, **** don't get real anymore
Sorry for my bad english :$
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SAMEERio
Th3.Immortals
130
|
Posted - 2016.01.01 22:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Good Stuff +1
Eat my Shorts!
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
720
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 05:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
How about CCP starting games off at 16 vs 16 and then quickly replacing anyone who backs out?
That will solve a big chunk of this problem.
They made this change ages ago as a Quality of Life (Game Experience) change as people were complaining about always being put into matches that were almost over or right as the MCC blew up.
Welp...
Change the logic.
If MCC has 25% armor left. No more replacements.
Otherwise fill in the empty spots.
People will still rage out of redline fests along for other reasons, but the majority leave due to a few reasons.
1. Laggy Map
2. Map not good for chosen role, I.E. Sniping, tanks, dropship, scout, heavy ect...
3. THEIR TEAM IS OUT NUMBERED AT THE START. For example 11 vs 15 or 12 vs 14, 9 vs 12 ect..
The devs have repeatedly said "We always start the match off full, people leave." Then restart the damned timer.
Make us stare at the spawn screen until replacements fill out both teams. What ever...
Either way, there is no incentive to get creamed over an over at your redline because you are constantly being put in a 8 vs 15 scenario all night.
People just back out and jump back into queue until it actually works correctly, it may take 5-10 tries but they are trying to have a good gaming experience.
As it sits right now, the queue logic fails horribly in this department.
The other GLARING downside to starting games off with 11 vs 13 is it makes everyone perceive the game as "DYING" or "DEAD' asa the way they see it, there isn't even enough players to provide a full game.
BRING BACK THE WARBARGE FOR EVERYONE.
Let us sit there for 5 minutes as it fills up. Let people quit that don't want to fight X corp, and then only start when full.
WE KNOW CCP IS CAPABLE OF THIS.
Cough FAC WAR COUGH COUGH
But Stylie... derpity just play derpity derp war if you want a full match durrrrrrrrr. (drool spittle drool)
How can I? A majority of the 5 point maps LAG SO HARD that the frame rate drops give me a head ache and keep me from even shooting the broad side of a wall.
Fac War is not an option for many who don' want to restart their PS3 every match. How about not liking Scout War at all?
Maybe the maps are too large for only 16 vs 16 to give you a feeling that most of the map is just a big Ghost town?
So yeah...
Make pubs Q up like Fac War.
Most of the quitting will stop.
Some quitting never will.
o7
http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
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DJINN Heartreaper
Negative-Feedback.
98
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 16:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
What about laggy/rubberbanding matches? Are we to stay in those matches just to not be punished? Sorry happened to me all night, got irritating |
kickin six
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 19:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Might work or how about when we enter a game that's 1/2 done and our side is getting slaughtered, someone on the other side gets transported to another hopeless game in the enemies Red zone and we all get to watch them try to scramble back to safety on a giant hovering projection screen? |
korrah silain
True Illuminate
201
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 21:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah, no the "stick" for not leaving the match is no exp and money for whatever time or isk investment you have given. Your stick idea is terrible because it has the potential to punish people for leaving for legitimate reasons(also it arbitrarily declares what is legitimate while leaving quite a few reasons as illegitimate) also its going to punish the community at large. We already have problems with search times, now imagine if people are being arbitrarily locked from playing for 10-30 minutes because they got dced, or scottyed multiple times. Also you are basically suggesting that a dying game be given a feature that forces people not to play if they decide they ARENT having fun in a given match because it becomes a stomp.
So yeah. Realllllly stupid idea. I'm all for the carrot though. Positive reinforcement has been proven to be much more effective than negative, after all.
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
556
|
Posted - 2016.01.04 13:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Looking at how often I either freeze or dc... I feel like it might punish innocents sometimes.
Slight edit... The person is only punished if they still have a connection to the server.
I don't agree with your idea, but it's a nice suggestion.
Potential Pilot Proposal? Yes!
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Terry Webber
WarRavens Auxiliaries
929
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 02:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
I love your idea, Alena. But I have just one question. Will losing a match reset the multiplier?
Inertial Booster Module
Vehicle Installation
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 03:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:I love your idea, Alena. But I have just one question. Will losing a match reset the multiplier? No. Only leaving early resets it.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Black Eagle495
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 01:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
I don't like this idea because i think this would just make things worse for the community as a whole and it doesn't solve the real problem which isn't people leaving matches it's people not wanting to fight against the odds in the first place. A 15% percent bonus isn't going to do that and it is not a reward because you are so harshly punished for leaving. not only that i have a feeling most would rather wait the hour instead of getting stomped for plus 15% of next to nothing as stomped teams usually have low wp rates. In my opinion this is like holding a gun to someone's head and telling them to sit in a chair and eat the cake that's on the table then claiming the cake's a reward for sitting in the chair.
I had an idea that i posted a few months got little attention, would prob be difficult to implement. |
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jordy mack
WarRavens Imperium Eden
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 02:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:-Make staying more rewarding -Offer special contracts with higher rewards for joining matches already in progress and/or one-sided matches -Allow players to see who they're fighting and where BEFORE they agree to join said battle (you know, how contracts ACTUALLY work) -Perma-ban everyone who brings up players leaving matches from the forums
this
Less QQ more PewPew
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
206
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 08:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Black Eagle495 wrote: I don't like this idea because i think this would just make things worse for the community as a whole and it doesn't solve the real problem which isn't people leaving matches it's people not wanting to fight against the odds in the first place. A 15% percent bonus isn't going to do that and it is not a reward because you are so harshly punished for leaving. not only that i have a feeling most would rather wait the hour instead of getting stomped for plus 15% of next to nothing as stomped teams usually have low wp rates. In my opinion this is like holding a gun to someone's head and telling them to sit in a chair and eat the cake that's on the table then claiming the cake's a reward for sitting in the chair. I had an idea that i posted a few months got little attention, would prob be difficult to implement. I usually don't quote if I have nothing substantive to say but this is a beautiful analogy. *slow claps*
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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YUUKI TERUMI
Th3.Immortals
182
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 10:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I have seen way too many people leaving battles before they even start. Entire squads will leave before a point is even hacked. We need to make this behavior less rewarding, and make staying in a match more rewarding. Thus, I propose a two-pronged approach. A stick to punish those who leave, and a carot for those who stay.
The Stick
Leaving battle should not be acceptable behavior. But there are all kinds of legitimate reasons for leaving: Someone got Scottyed, and the squad leaves to get them back. A friend logged on and you leave match to squad with them. You dc from a game. All kinds of things happen. So my stick will have several layers to it, to try and make sure the proper people are being punished.
For leaving one match, there will be no punishment. However, this starts a 1 hour timer, which is unseen by the player. If the player leaves another match early before this timer expires, they are unable to queue for any match , including PC, for 10 minutes. This also resets the 1 hour timer, starting once the 10 minute ban ends. If they leave another match, they are banned from queuing from all matches, again including PC, for 20 minutes. The 1 hour timer resets once the 20 minute ban expires. If the player leaves yet another match, they will be banned for another 20 minutes from all matches, with the 1 hour timer resetting after the ban ends. When the 1 hour timer is allowed to expire, the player can again leave a match without penalty... but leaving the match also starts that 1 hour timer again. All timers will run even if the player isn't logged in, to ensure we don't put too much pressure on people who are having connection problems.
What this does is give players 1 chance per hour to leave a match for whatever reason: pick up people, get ready for PC, and yes, worried about their KDRs. Any reason. But leaving again within an hour, which is likely only done by people who are scaed of the competition, are penalized by not being able to play anything at all. There will be no indication of when these timers expire: this is to make it as inconvenient as possible for habitual leavers. This will hit players who DC a lot, but no system is perfect, and it will be worth that price to ensure people want to remain in the match, no matter how hard it becomes.
The Carrot
At the same time, we need to reward players for staying in a match despite the odds. To do this, we should give them extra rewards for staying: Players gain a 3% stacking multiplier to their end-of-match winnings, maxing out at 15% extra winnings for completing 5 battles. This multiplier is reset every time a player leaves a match before its conclusion, regardless of victory or defeat, OR a player does not meet the 150 wp requirement to gain SP in a match. This is to prevent AFKing in the MCC to keep a winnings multiplier going. This multiplier will apply to pubs and FW, but not to PC, to prevent PC players from wanting to stomp pubs to build up a multiplier for PC battles.
By doing so, we reward players who stick it out to the end, for better or worse, and also allow newbros a faster means to catch up to vets in ISK/SP, as long as they stay in the matches and see them through.
With these two things, we can ensure that layers will want to stick around for matches, or at the very least ensure that players who habitually leave will be sorely inconvenienced for their cowardice. Meanwhile, staying in matches nets you more ISK, LP, and SP, meaning you actively want to see the conclusion of the game. With both of these in place, we won't stop players from leaving matches altogether, but we can motivate more players to stay in matches more often. Mmmmh if they relog after they leave battle and your time goes **** itself :/
Gal assault rof buff \0/
PortDust514
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sullen maximus
Deadspace Knights
14
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 22:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I have seen way too many people leaving battles before they even start. Entire squads will leave before a point is even hacked. We need to make this behavior less rewarding, and make staying in a match more rewarding. Thus, I propose a two-pronged approach. A stick to punish those who leave, and a carot for those who stay.
The Stick
Leaving battle should not be acceptable behavior. But there are all kinds of legitimate reasons for leaving: Someone got Scottyed, and the squad leaves to get them back. A friend logged on and you leave match to squad with them. You dc from a game. All kinds of things happen. So my stick will have several layers to it, to try and make sure the proper people are being punished.
For leaving one match, there will be no punishment. However, this starts a 1 hour timer, which is unseen by the player. If the player leaves another match early before this timer expires, they are unable to queue for any match , including PC, for 10 minutes. This also resets the 1 hour timer, starting once the 10 minute ban ends. If they leave another match, they are banned from queuing from all matches, again including PC, for 20 minutes. The 1 hour timer resets once the 20 minute ban expires. If the player leaves yet another match, they will be banned for another 20 minutes from all matches, with the 1 hour timer resetting after the ban ends. When the 1 hour timer is allowed to expire, the player can again leave a match without penalty... but leaving the match also starts that 1 hour timer again. All timers will run even if the player isn't logged in, to ensure we don't put too much pressure on people who are having connection problems.
What this does is give players 1 chance per hour to leave a match for whatever reason: pick up people, get ready for PC, and yes, worried about their KDRs. Any reason. But leaving again within an hour, which is likely only done by people who are scaed of the competition, are penalized by not being able to play anything at all. There will be no indication of when these timers expire: this is to make it as inconvenient as possible for habitual leavers. This will hit players who DC a lot, but no system is perfect, and it will be worth that price to ensure people want to remain in the match, no matter how hard it becomes.
The Carrot
At the same time, we need to reward players for staying in a match despite the odds. To do this, we should give them extra rewards for staying: Players gain a 3% stacking multiplier to their end-of-match winnings, maxing out at 15% extra winnings for completing 5 battles. This multiplier is reset every time a player leaves a match before its conclusion, regardless of victory or defeat, OR a player does not meet the 150 wp requirement to gain SP in a match. This is to prevent AFKing in the MCC to keep a winnings multiplier going. This multiplier will apply to pubs and FW, but not to PC, to prevent PC players from wanting to stomp pubs to build up a multiplier for PC battles.
By doing so, we reward players who stick it out to the end, for better or worse, and also allow newbros a faster means to catch up to vets in ISK/SP, as long as they stay in the matches and see them through.
With these two things, we can ensure that layers will want to stick around for matches, or at the very least ensure that players who habitually leave will be sorely inconvenienced for their cowardice. Meanwhile, staying in matches nets you more ISK, LP, and SP, meaning you actively want to see the conclusion of the game. With both of these in place, we won't stop players from leaving matches altogether, but we can motivate more players to stay in matches more often.
While I generally like the idea of rewarding for staying, you never addressed one of the primary reasons people leave. completely outmatching or people they know they simply DO NOT WANT to play.
So long as CCP allows full groups that have wallet'ed their way to never use anything but protos and match them against people who have barely completed the academy people are going to quit. And implementing your 'stick' won't help the already dropping player base. Even with a drawback such as the one you mention i'm going to still quit out of games against teams that in general are simply not fun to play against. (stares at S.K.I.L.L. OF G.O.D. still have yet to have a lagswitch free game against this team).
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Slayer Deathbringer
Planetary Response Organisation FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
9
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 04:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
DIinkelFritz wrote:Jackkkkkkkkkkkkkkky jack wrote:they will just stay in mcc.... wont work lol They already sit in MCC. I watch the map in poor games and I see maybe 8 people when it says there are 16 on the team. Simple fix is if a character hasn't received controller input for a minute or so, they are auto kicked from the game and incur the timer. If they are committed to staying, they have to stay bored and active in the MCC. Good idea. It's simple and would be effective. Something does need to be done though. Pisses me off more than lag, and that is saying something. that's what rubber bands are for or paperweights for keyboard users
"It's not my fault that you lost a 1 mill isk suit to a 1k isk forge gun"
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.17 18:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Good post.
Kero's comments:
The stick: Sadly, Dust isn't stable enough for the leaver penalty, even for a timer softened one. For example, yesterday I played in a squad of four. It took us roughly four attempts to get into game until on fifth we managed. This lasted some 90 minutes, with everyone in turn being scottied/DCd/PSN kicked/stuck at deployment/stuck at loading screen/black screen. There are far too many simultaneous bugs to allow the suggestion.
The carrot. Very good. +1
"Cut cut cut - Trim trim trim!"
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Eff EL
Stoned Soldiers
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.18 09:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
I hear a lot of people saying, here, they leave matches for reasons such as lag or odds or roles, and they seem to be calling them "legitimate." I don't see any of those as legit reasons. They are nothing. I sit through 5 v 10 matches just actually trying. And I can get a pretty decent amount of kills and WP. I have no problem. Lag? I sit through that, and so do a lot of other people. If one person is lagging, chances are everyone else is, too. I've grown acclimated to it, and so have plenty of other people. The map doesn't "suit" your "role?" Spec into multiple roles. I have a sniper, a logi, a heavy, assault, I can tank, I can drop people on cap from my MCC, a scout for cloaking and hacking, I have a suit for everything I could possibly need to do.
If you would abandon your team for something so selfish, you deserve to be punished. I, personally, just think that if one person leaves one team, the other team should lose one of theirs, one with equal or about equal WP. If it is at the beginning, then just drop at random.
Someone wants to enter mid-battle? Put them in the war room until another player fills the spot on the other team. That would be a good solution. I think it'd be better. You don't want to get kicked from the game? Maybe you should stop being part of the problem.
Of course, with a system like this, there comes certain issues. You spent a lot of suits, right? Lost a few tanks, an ADS? An officer weapon? If you're kicked, you'd have used those for nothing, right? We should be refunded any equipment we lost if we are kicked for someone else's incompetence.
I'm sure that if we put selfish desires aside, we could figure out something that would work for all of us.
Of course, it would help if all DUST players were actually active on the Forums. |
Llamastar
Kylo's Fist
6
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 18:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
As someone who regularly stays in battles even redlined and up @#$% creek without a paddle where blueberries are doing laps around the MCC, I think you make your own reward. I regularly get 1000+ WP in hopelessly losing battles simply by making smart plays, dropping links etc., and fighting where the redberry blob isn't. It's not that hard. So that is the reward. You get WP and you get paid out. Winning a pub match isn't tbh really necessary in this game beyond getting your dailies done.
Make a Scout running suit and go hack everything on the other side of the map while being too fast to bother shooting at.
Make an Assault with Links and keeping flanking the red blob, dropping links as you go. Pick off the brave ones as much as possible, and move the fight.
Go hack the Letter while no one's looking.
Blow up some installations in their backfield while they're camping the redline.
There's all kinds of ways to make WP in losing matches. You get paid out, you get your reward, you move onto the next fight. Good enough for me. I don't see any point to punishing battle leaves, because there's way too many legit reasons for doing so. ( How about low framerate because of glitchers?... ). I can see rewarding fighting outnumbered, perhaps a WP multplier like [ Red Team / Blue Team ], where if you're fighting 15 against 16 you get 1.066x the WP at end of match, but fighting 3 against 16 you get 5.33x the WP. A Math whizz could probably make that equation much more interesting and not so swingy, or just arbitrarily cap it at certain things up to 3x WP or something like that. Because let's be honest, if it's 3 v 16, you're maybe going to make at a few hundred WP the legit way, and even the red side is only going to get a few hundred because there's hardly anyone to kill and nothing to hack / destroy. You're just sitting there waiting for the MCC to burn down for what feels like forever.
The basic problem here is really in the matchmaking system, so concentrate on fixing that before worrying about any of this, tbh. |
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