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CAPTAIN united
heavy hands merc squad
0
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Posted - 2015.12.19 21:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
people say tanks are op because they die twice to a tank but have they actually tryed to use av?,sure milita av isnt the best but its still enough to make a proto tank retreat.and the lai dai,now lets talk about them 3 of them do 4k dmg which is stupid because they lock on to yoyr tank when u throw them and their is no stopping them andthats unfair im basically dead, and that goes for all av and swarms, swarms are the same out running them is so hard they follow you for long-distance and they whont stop till they hit because a tank isnt a drop ship we cant fly across the map us tanks get stuck alot ccp helps av people they make sure tanks get stuck on things like rocks and small boxs so once we get stuck and have to get unstuck thats the avs head start l, and the forgegun damn a typical one can 1-3 shot a tank even one with hardners, i see two solutions. (1)tanks get a new 30% resistance to av so they can atleast barley live and recall their tanks. (2)reduce the price of a tanks to 500k isk because av is op,4 shots from a swarms is 250dmg x16=4000dmg and one av grenade 5k dmg and a tank is done,and this isnt even proto |
maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.19 21:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Struggles of the illiterate.
Reserved.
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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TIGER SHARK1501
Savage Bullet
RUST415
667
|
Posted - 2015.12.19 22:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pilots are second rate citizens. Sadly your cries will fall upon deaf ears. |
HOLY PERFECTION
Fourth Nature
178
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Posted - 2015.12.19 22:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
CAPTAIN united wrote:people say tanks are op because they die twice to a tank but have they actually tryed to use av?,sure milita av isnt the best but its still enough to make a proto tank retreat.and the lai dai,now lets talk about them 3 of them do 4k dmg which is stupid because they lock on to yoyr tank when u throw them and their is no stopping them andthats unfair im basically dead, and that goes for all av and swarms, swarms are the same out running them is so hard they follow you for long-distance and they whont stop till they hit because a tank isnt a drop ship we cant fly across the map us tanks get stuck alot ccp helps av people they make sure tanks get stuck on things like rocks and small boxs so once we get stuck and have to get unstuck thats the avs head start l, and the forgegun damn a typical one can 1-3 shot a tank even one with hardners, i see two solutions. (1)tanks get a new 30% resistance to av so they can atleast barley live and recall their tanks. (2)reduce the price of a tanks to 500k isk because av is op,4 shots from a swarms is 250dmg x16=4000dmg and one av grenade 5k dmg and a tank is done,and this isnt even proto
I agree captain, ill make a more detailed post in a few hours.
If I charge, follow me. If I retreat, kill me. If I die, revenge me.
I'm really hard headed
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.12.19 22:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lai Dai's are a problem but I think AV is pretty balanced, unless you don't use hardeners or stay in one place you will very likely not die to any singular player. |
danthrax martin
Bad Blueberries
657
|
Posted - 2015.12.19 22:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
CAPTAIN united wrote:people say tanks are op because they die twice to a tank but have they actually tryed to use av?,sure milita av isnt the best but its still enough to make a proto tank retreat.and the lai dai,now lets talk about them 3 of them do 4k dmg which is stupid because they lock on to yoyr tank when u throw them and their is no stopping them andthats unfair im basically dead, and that goes for all av and swarms, swarms are the same out running them is so hard they follow you for long-distance and they whont stop till they hit because a tank isnt a drop ship we cant fly across the map us tanks get stuck alot ccp helps av people they make sure tanks get stuck on things like rocks and small boxs so once we get stuck and have to get unstuck thats the avs head start l, and the forgegun damn a typical one can 1-3 shot a tank even one with hardners, i see two solutions. (1)tanks get a new 30% resistance to av so they can atleast barley live and recall their tanks. (2)reduce the price of a tanks to 500k isk because av is op,4 shots from a swarms is 250dmg x16=4000dmg and one av grenade 5k dmg and a tank is done,and this isnt even proto
Are you saying that when you are not doing good at tanking...
A. Tanks should cost less
B. AV should nerf itself when you get stuck
C. When you stop a forge unity loses its bonus
D. Not search the forums for cheap effective tank fits that people share
E. You are unable to ask for the help many people would offer because testosterone?
Ask, don't blast.
Learning can be cool
( as I sit, on vacation
Soaking in a tub
With a view
Of the ski slopes
Of Utah)
Is it even legal to smoke a cig here?
Last ashtray I've seen is at the airport...
*sigh*
I thought K/D padding was better than Kotex.
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Lightning35 Delta514
The Warlords Legion
3
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Posted - 2015.12.19 22:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
As a tanker (both maddy and Gunny) and AV-er (PC and lai-Dais), I have to disagree.
Tanks and AV imho are close to balanced. The biggest problem is double hardened tanks. And those are mostly maddys. Tanks aren't to hard to destroy really. I've lost multiple proto tanks to well fitted tanks and AV-ers working as a team.
1 hardener is enough to deal with 1-2 AV ers. Anything more and the tank is basically meant to be destroyed. If the tank survives, it's usually a double hardened maddy and is op. And that's where the problem arises.
CEO of T-W-L
YT- LD3514
Gallente Loyalist- ION PISTOL FOR LIFE! GFQ!
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DJINN Heartreaper
Negative-Feedback.
30
|
Posted - 2015.12.19 22:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
AV is fine other than swarms vs ADS..one hit and you lose control..hold l1 and press r1 and it follows you what 400-500m? Yeah that takes no skill and is the most effective against my ads..think that needs fixed or ads missile splash radius increased, no more floppy |
shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
5
|
Posted - 2015.12.19 22:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
The only stupid av is swarm launcher, fire and forget, turning 360 degrees missiles.
Av Hades are homing but the only bs is that they remain on the terrain for too much.
Camouflage master =ƒÄà
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Summa Militum
Abstract Requiem
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.19 22:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
CAPTAIN united wrote:people say tanks are op because they die twice to a tank but have they actually tryed to use av?,sure milita av isnt the best but its still enough to make a proto tank retreat.and the lai dai,now lets talk about them 3 of them do 4k dmg which is stupid because they lock on to yoyr tank when u throw them and their is no stopping them andthats unfair im basically dead, and that goes for all av and swarms, swarms are the same out running them is so hard they follow you for long-distance and they whont stop till they hit because a tank isnt a drop ship we cant fly across the map us tanks get stuck alot ccp helps av people they make sure tanks get stuck on things like rocks and small boxs so once we get stuck and have to get unstuck thats the avs head start l, and the forgegun damn a typical one can 1-3 shot a tank even one with hardners, i see two solutions. (1)tanks get a new 30% resistance to av so they can atleast barley live and recall their tanks. (2)reduce the price of a tanks to 500k isk because av is op,4 shots from a swarms is 250dmg x16=4000dmg and one av grenade 5k dmg and a tank is done,and this isnt even proto
1. Don't stay in one spot long enough for someone with Lai Dai's to run up on you.
2. Don't drive your tank around in areas that leave you vulnerable. |
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Thumb Green
Elephant Riders
2
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Posted - 2015.12.19 23:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
CAPTAIN united wrote:sure milita av isnt the best but its still enough to make a proto tank retreat
Wait.... are you Spkr?
Most of what I see around here is just a bag of dicks in need of some kicks.
Dust really needs its high sec.
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Apocalyptic Destroyer
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
566
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 00:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lol GG AV vs Vehicles has always been a problem and will never get fixed.
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Radiant Pancake3
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 00:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:As a tanker (both maddy and Gunny) and AV-er (PC and lai-Dais), I have to disagree.
Tanks and AV imho are close to balanced. The biggest problem is double hardened tanks. And those are mostly maddys. Tanks aren't to hard to destroy really. I've lost multiple proto tanks to well fitted tanks and AV-ers working as a team.
1 hardener is enough to deal with 1-2 AV ers. Anything more and the tank is basically meant to be destroyed. If the tank survives, it's usually a double hardened maddy and is op. And that's where the problem arises.
What I will say is that AV to tank price ratio is disproportionate. If tanks are limited to 1 hardener in the future, and they should for truly balanced AV to tank, tank prices should drop a bit. 1.3m for a whole proto tank is too much compared to 50k and 15k for proto plasma and lai dais.
Damn you light and your Wrong weapon Abbreviations... The Plasma Cannon is called a PLC not PC...
Port Confirmed.
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Lightning35 Delta514
The Warlords Legion
3
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 00:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Radiant Pancake3 wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:As a tanker (both maddy and Gunny) and AV-er (PC and lai-Dais), I have to disagree.
Tanks and AV imho are close to balanced. The biggest problem is double hardened tanks. And those are mostly maddys. Tanks aren't to hard to destroy really. I've lost multiple proto tanks to well fitted tanks and AV-ers working as a team.
1 hardener is enough to deal with 1-2 AV ers. Anything more and the tank is basically meant to be destroyed. If the tank survives, it's usually a double hardened maddy and is op. And that's where the problem arises.
What I will say is that AV to tank price ratio is disproportionate. If tanks are limited to 1 hardener in the future, and they should for truly balanced AV to tank, tank prices should drop a bit. 1.3m for a whole proto tank is too much compared to 50k and 15k for proto plasma and lai dais. Damn you light and your Wrong weapon Abbreviations... The Plasma Cannon is called a PLC not PC...
As long as people understand (which you did) I don't care really.
CEO of T-W-L
YT- LD3514
Gallente Loyalist- ION PISTOL FOR LIFE! GFQ!
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
945
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 01:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:As a tanker (both maddy and Gunny) and AV-er (PC and lai-Dais), I have to disagree.
Tanks and AV imho are close to balanced. The biggest problem is double hardened tanks. And those are mostly maddys. Tanks aren't to hard to destroy really. I've lost multiple proto tanks to well fitted tanks and AV-ers working as a team.
1 hardener is enough to deal with 1-2 AV ers. Anything more and the tank is basically meant to be destroyed. If the tank survives, it's usually a double hardened maddy and is op. And that's where the problem arises.
What I will say is that AV to tank price ratio is disproportionate. If tanks are limited to 1 hardener in the future, and they should for truly balanced AV to tank, tank prices should drop a bit. 1.3m for a whole proto tank is too much compared to 50k and 15k for proto plasma and lai dais.
balanced my ass....
should not need hardeners in the first place.
what should a tank do.. keep infantry running scared and pinned down. vehicles should be making waves on the battle.
an essential tool to push enemies back. defend and reinforce points.
aswell as provide mobile cover for attacking and defending infantry.
if av can easily eliminate vehicles from a completely safe area. such as a roof top spammed with uplinks. then it should take alot to take said vehicles down.
force av out to actually risk themselves if they want to blow vehicles up quickly they need to get next to it and hit it in the weak points.
for that to even be risky large blaster needs some of its old accuracy back
and missiles and rails need a better blast radius. as it is the only time they can inflict any form of harm is when well..they are completely ignored and nothing done to deal with them.
great potential is always there..
it just has yet to be realized
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Thumb Green
Elephant Riders
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 03:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:As a tanker (both maddy and Gunny) and AV-er (PC and lai-Dais), I have to disagree.
Tanks and AV imho are close to balanced. The biggest problem is double hardened tanks. And those are mostly maddys. Tanks aren't to hard to destroy really. I've lost multiple proto tanks to well fitted tanks and AV-ers working as a team.
1 hardener is enough to deal with 1-2 AV ers. Anything more and the tank is basically meant to be destroyed. If the tank survives, it's usually a double hardened maddy and is op. And that's where the problem arises.
What I will say is that AV to tank price ratio is disproportionate. If tanks are limited to 1 hardener in the future, and they should for truly balanced AV to tank, tank prices should drop a bit. 1.3m for a whole proto tank is too much compared to 50k and 15k for proto plasma and lai dais. balanced my ass.... should not need hardeners in the first place. what should a tank do.. keep infantry running scared and pinned down. vehicles should be making waves on the battle. an essential tool to push enemies back. defend and reinforce points. aswell as provide mobile cover for attacking and defending infantry. if av can easily eliminate vehicles from a completely safe area. such as a roof top spammed with uplinks. then it should take alot to take said vehicles down. force av out to actually risk themselves if they want to blow vehicles up quickly they need to get next to it and hit it in the weak points. for that to even be risky large blaster needs some of its old accuracy back and missiles and rails need a better blast radius. as it is the only time they can inflict any form of harm is when well..they are completely ignored and nothing done to deal with them.
Someone misses the demi-god tanks we had from 1.7 to hotfix alpha. But yeah, tanks should have non-AV infantry running scared just as AV-infantry should have non-hardened vehicles running scared just as non-AV infantry should have AV infantry running scared. By the way, good drivers/pilots still make waves and there's quite a few matches where a team will get redlined because of the enemies vehicles making such big waves that most of the team switches to AV to deal with them and then get mopped up by the enemy infantry.
We seen what happens when vehicles don't fear AV. Even someone horrible at tanking like myself could sit in a sica/soma with just one militia hardener on it right out in the open, mowing down infantry with the only thing to fear being multiple proto assault forge guns, jihad jeeps, and better tankers. Slap on another hardener, cycle them or run them at the same time, pfft only better tankers and big horn unicorns were a threat. Sh!t, a triple hardened gunny could take two double damage modded rail sicas hitting it at the same time without taking damage. One day I felt like being an ******* and jumped into the academy with a sica, went almost 47-49/0 (it was the high 40's I remember that much) and the random gunner that jumped in at the start of the match had over 20 kills before he jumped out we probably could have gotten a hell of a lot more if I hadn't of redlined them (and I do mean my sica alone redlined them) before half the match was over. Spent half the match spinning around in circles in front of the enemy redline letting them hit me with swarms and LAV's and only had to activate the hardener & booster every now and then and that was only because of the LAV's ramming into me. The swarms, bah-ha-ha, which of course they were militia, but still I had at least 5 or 6 of them shooting me and yet they still weren't a threat. Hell it probably would have taken that many proto swarms (at this point proto swarms had been nerfed into doing as much damage as militia had been doing before it was nerfed as well) to have been a threat when my modules were on cool down.
The only people that liked that were people that needed a crutch, even real tankers didn't like it that much because of the influx of FOTM seekers because vehicles took as much skill as pissing on the ground does. The balance ain't perfect but it's as close to perfect as Dust's AV vs Vehicles has ever been.
Most of what I see around here is just a bag of dicks in need of some kicks.
Dust really needs its high sec.
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Radiant Pancake3
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 03:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Radiant Pancake3 wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:As a tanker (both maddy and Gunny) and AV-er (PC and lai-Dais), I have to disagree.
Tanks and AV imho are close to balanced. The biggest problem is double hardened tanks. And those are mostly maddys. Tanks aren't to hard to destroy really. I've lost multiple proto tanks to well fitted tanks and AV-ers working as a team.
1 hardener is enough to deal with 1-2 AV ers. Anything more and the tank is basically meant to be destroyed. If the tank survives, it's usually a double hardened maddy and is op. And that's where the problem arises.
What I will say is that AV to tank price ratio is disproportionate. If tanks are limited to 1 hardener in the future, and they should for truly balanced AV to tank, tank prices should drop a bit. 1.3m for a whole proto tank is too much compared to 50k and 15k for proto plasma and lai dais. Damn you light and your Wrong weapon Abbreviations... The Plasma Cannon is called a PLC not PC... As long as people understand (which you did) I don't care really.
Context clues help you understand almost anything in life...
Port Confirmed.
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 05:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
If you're using a Gunnlogi or Gladius and you have your skills maxed, try using a Regulator, 2x Hardeners, and a Booster.
The twin Hardeners will reduce incoming damage significantly, and the Booster only regenerates base HP, meaning that while AV has to do a lot more damage to you, you can get most of your HP back with the press of a button. The Regulator will let you start recharging faster between fights.
Corporal Axton always used a setup like that back before we got the slot buff to HAVs, and it was pretty deadly. Obviously we didn't have regulators back then, but even in fights against rep-stacking Madrugars he could manage to come out on top.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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jane stalin
free dropships for newbs
524
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 07:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
I cannot believe that people say AV is too powerful.
It is not rare to see a double hardened maddy sit in the middle of the battlefield not even moving and ignoring damage.
...............................boyko...............................
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Git Gud Bruh
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
5
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 09:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Blasters- as of right now are complete trash. I've literally seen SOOOO many redberry's just stand in front of my blaster without taking so much as 1hp worth of damage, meanwhile I'm overheating trying to kill just one of the 5 standing in front of me (that's holding down the trigger, not tapping, single fire actually gives a million times better hit detection) it seriously needs a boost to either overheat or accuracy or range....something, its just not competitive anymore.
Missiles- cant really say much, seem about as useful and useless as ever, I do find it absolutely hilarious that a mass driver has a splash radius of a bajillion meters but a giant missile being shot out of a turret has 1/10th the blast radius, but whatever. They are useful versus armor tanks
Rail- OP as **** against infantry if youre a worth a **** shot, OP against any other tank turret. I've popped proto tank after proto tank with a sica militia rail so many times it's a blasphemy.
Gunnlogi- Currently the plasma cannon is RAPING! gunny's. But at least they have to actually aim!!!!!! (swarms are for scrubs anyway) Swarms are still far too effective against shield vehicles.
Madrugar- The better of the two....thats just fact. I like the gunny but the maddy survives so much better (armor hardeners last almost twice as long as shield hardeners {for whatever reason}) and the rep rate of the maddy beats shield regen any day of the week, but it does have one downside, no shields to boost, oh wait! maddy with a shield boost and a heat sink and two hardeners can survive anything unless youre just a scrub tanker, the shield boost on the maddy is sooooooo OP. By the time you cut through the shields again theyre repped all the way back up
LAI DAI- OVERPOWERED! And I wish I could hate myself for saying it, but they are, 2 lai dais wreck anything not hardened, 3 and a plasma wrecks the damn enemy MCC FFS! I used to not worry about them as much but now all I ever see AV players doing is running at me with a LAI DAI in hand, it's the go-to AV weapon and ANYONE (except commandos) can use them. They've completely replaced RE's and Proxies, ****...just throw down a lai dai and wait for a tank to roll by, they stay on the ground for forever.
"Militia Internet, Proto Lag" -Zandor Suzuki
"To be fair"- xviper xsniper
"Americ*nt"- TheD1CK
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ANON Cerberus
TerranProtossZerg
964
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Posted - 2015.12.20 10:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't know about that, I use a quafe forge on a regular basis and the only things it has a chance to kill in terms of vehicles are crappy LAVs and poorly piloted and ill-fit craptanks.
Any time there is anything reasonable out there on the battlefield I almost feel that a protoforge is mandatory. Sometimes I feel only the Alldins and Gastuns forges offer me the firepower I need to take on GOOD tanks and derps. (Anecdotal of course) |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
21
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Posted - 2015.12.20 10:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:Struggles of the illiterate.
Reserved.
Edit.
First off. If its a caldari tank then yeah. Av tears it apart.
Madrugars, totally different story.
Retreating is a valid tactic seeing a fully fit proto tanks cost more than one million isk,so why take chances?
Lia dai av grenades still need to be thrown correctly because of smaller seek range.
Swarms were also nerfed recently. Shorter lock on range and something about the missile guidance.
Forge guns are meant to be used versus tanks.
And there is such a thing as a weak spot.
And as far as I can glean from your babble,you can't avoid the swarms,av grenades and forge guns,and you want them nerfed.
And continuing even more. It seems like you are just being double teamed. Its called pick your engagements.
Put more skill points into tanks and ask for tips in the locker room part of the forums.
What the hell planet are you living on. The Caldari HAV is almost invulnerable to all forms of AV excepting the Plasma Cannon and makes for the best Heavy Support or Anti Infantry Tank due to sheer resistance power against kinetic and explosive AV forms which of course are by far the most common.
Might not be as great in Tank vs Tank due to the Madrugar's broken heavy repair modules but damn if a dual hardened Gunlogi with a pair of gunners won't **** on literally everything in the game.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Abraxis Mangelor
Breach Team
7
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Posted - 2015.12.20 15:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
A few points throw my hat in for the "it's just fine" side of the argument.
Keep it simple fellas
A dropsuit turns a meatsack infantryman into a 2-legged cyborg-like half-tank. Infantry in dust are effing dangerous critters, and much more durable in relation to a tank than is a modern infantryman. I would guess that a non-dropsuit fit infantryman would not even be able to carry or operate equivalent weaponry.
Tankers who dedicate time, money and tremendous become SKILLED into their tanks should be able to make a very dangerous, force multiplying vehicle fit that has both serious durability - and an Achille's heel. Both shield and armor tanks can be fit this way.
It only takes coordination of SKILLED AV infantry to take down any tank. But they must coordinate. It's perfect.
Same is true of dropships. An ADS is a strike platform. A regular DS is a deployment platform. They each do their job very well, and can be fit and flown appropriately. A SKILLED pilot who knows his ship and his enemy can make very good use of the tanky deployment dropships and the dogfighting or infantry sweeping ADS fits.
If you disagree, then you only want an easy button. |
Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 16:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
I honestly think AV is in a near-perfect place at the STD/ADV level, but PRO is still a touch too strong; swarms now have a palpable "bubble" of effective range which means you can only chase off a DS when it's in your immediate vicinity, and against tanks you'll need a good fifteen seconds of clean line of sight to have a chance of taking them out, which leaves the AVer quite vulnerable. Which makes PLC's an interesting choice. because they can pop in and out of cover and cause tanks serious issues.
Things still to address:
Swarms rendering properly for pilots.
PLC still missfires occassionaly.
Breach Mass driver is still terrible against vehicles. Needs to be reworked.
Amarr AV. PLEASE.
Breach and assault variants of PLC would be kind.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Daemonn Adima
Eternal Beings
691
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 19:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
AV should be effective, but a SINGLE proto swarm user with Hives on a roof and fire support renders any vehicles USELESS! If you're not running proto mods or stacking armor proto swarms on average will destroy tanks, DS and ADS in under 2 volleys. I've had SEVERAL repeated experiences being shot down while my hardner is up in 2 rounds of a proto swarms, I've got multiple screen shots of 2 rounds doing 5000+ damage and following me in excess of 800 meters... They are sitting pretty right now.
I started using militia swarms and even though I dont destroy vehicles as fast, I'm as effective at keeping them far away from our blueberries.
Anyone who denies the power of swarms hasn't consistently piloted vehicles outside of proto tanks. |
Apoleon II
Rooky rooks
32
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Posted - 2015.12.20 19:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
I used to be a hater like you, then i took a double hardener in my python, eerr, about the Lai Dai grenades, they MUST be op , because they came from a maxed out skill m8. Maybe I like them because I play dust while I'm playing dark souls, so yeah, I like overpowered bastards
Sorry for my bad english :$
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
947
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Posted - 2015.12.20 19:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:CLONE117 wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:As a tanker (both maddy and Gunny) and AV-er (PC and lai-Dais), I have to disagree.
Tanks and AV imho are close to balanced. The biggest problem is double hardened tanks. And those are mostly maddys. Tanks aren't to hard to destroy really. I've lost multiple proto tanks to well fitted tanks and AV-ers working as a team.
1 hardener is enough to deal with 1-2 AV ers. Anything more and the tank is basically meant to be destroyed. If the tank survives, it's usually a double hardened maddy and is op. And that's where the problem arises.
What I will say is that AV to tank price ratio is disproportionate. If tanks are limited to 1 hardener in the future, and they should for truly balanced AV to tank, tank prices should drop a bit. 1.3m for a whole proto tank is too much compared to 50k and 15k for proto plasma and lai dais. balanced my ass.... should not need hardeners in the first place. what should a tank do.. keep infantry running scared and pinned down. vehicles should be making waves on the battle. an essential tool to push enemies back. defend and reinforce points. aswell as provide mobile cover for attacking and defending infantry. if av can easily eliminate vehicles from a completely safe area. such as a roof top spammed with uplinks. then it should take alot to take said vehicles down. force av out to actually risk themselves if they want to blow vehicles up quickly they need to get next to it and hit it in the weak points. for that to even be risky large blaster needs some of its old accuracy back and missiles and rails need a better blast radius. as it is the only time they can inflict any form of harm is when well..they are completely ignored and nothing done to deal with them. Someone misses the demi-god tanks we had from 1.7 to hotfix alpha.
damn right i miss 1.7 tanks.
i didnt run those hardener fits though. i ran a 512.5 hps triple reps maddy as it was more fun. and a glass cannon gunny and sica at times when other people started spamming them.
there were a lot more viable tank fits in 1.7.
which meant even the newberries could hop in and actually help the team rather than pad some1 elses kdr.
though due to the rep speed my tank fit could be considered almost immune to most solo av.
which was just some guy throwing a few av nades at me. or a lone swarm launcher.
2 forgers and you could kiss my tank good bye though.
it could stand up to par with a lot of other fits as well. as i faced a proto hardened blaster maddy during that time period as well.
and ill say that was the longest tank brawl in dust history.
it only ended when the other guy screwed up with modules or had a bug of some sort and started running for the hills as i pursued and finally killed him.
id say that was the only time my tank did run out of ammo. course i also had a terrain advantage and could back up to hide from his turret which melted my armor down to about 500 hp left before he over heated or had to stop to cool down.
though it was hard countered by missile tanks. or orbitals. or 2 persistent dedicated av players. which almost no1 bothered to pull out during that time period. through my experience.
great potential is always there..
it just has yet to be realized
|
Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 20:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
The core issue at the heart of AV balance is that nobody knows whether it should work when it's operating solo within a team or whether it needs to be used in small coherent groups that rely on teamwork and communication as much as they rely on base stats and raw effectiveness. Clearly, the latter option sounds more intertesting and dynamic, and therefore fun, but as a dedicated solo player I feel as though a PLC, used properly, *should* be a match for enemy armour, and I should be rewarded for using it skillfully. Rewarded....with *explosions.*
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
21
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 20:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:
damn right i miss 1.7 tanks.
i didnt run those hardener fits though. i ran a 512.5 hps triple reps maddy as it was more fun. and a glass cannon gunny and sica at times when other people started spamming them.
there were a lot more viable tank fits in 1.7.
which meant even the newberries could hop in and actually help the team rather than pad some1 elses kdr.
though due to the rep speed my tank fit could be considered almost immune to most solo av.
which was just some guy throwing a few av nades at me. or a lone swarm launcher.
2 forgers and you could kiss my tank good bye though.
it could stand up to par with a lot of other fits as well. as i faced a proto hardened blaster maddy during that time period as well.
and ill say that was the longest tank brawl in dust history.
it only ended when the other guy screwed up with modules or had a bug of some sort and started running for the hills as i pursued and finally killed him.
id say that was the only time my tank did run out of ammo. course i also had a terrain advantage and could back up to hide from his turret which melted my armor down to about 500 hp left before he over heated or had to stop to cool down.
though it was hard countered by missile tanks. or orbitals. or 2 persistent dedicated av players. which almost no1 bothered to pull out during that time period. through my experience.
Blegh.... a Rep-Tanked HAV based off of passive modules that requires no acitvation or skill to employ.
1.7 was the end of enjoyable vehicles.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Scarr Beloxian
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 22:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
well I just hate tankers that run away like cowards when their hardeners run out...buncha chickens
seeking the end is no fun for an immortal
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maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 22:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:Struggles of the illiterate.
Reserved.
Edit.
First off. If its a caldari tank then yeah. Av tears it apart.
Madrugars, totally different story.
Retreating is a valid tactic seeing a fully fit proto tanks cost more than one million isk,so why take chances?
Lia dai av grenades still need to be thrown correctly because of smaller seek range.
Swarms were also nerfed recently. Shorter lock on range and something about the missile guidance.
Forge guns are meant to be used versus tanks.
And there is such a thing as a weak spot.
And as far as I can glean from your babble,you can't avoid the swarms,av grenades and forge guns,and you want them nerfed.
And continuing even more. It seems like you are just being double teamed. Its called pick your engagements.
Put more skill points into tanks and ask for tips in the locker room part of the forums. What the hell planet are you living on. The Caldari HAV is almost invulnerable to all forms of AV excepting the Plasma Cannon and makes for the best Heavy Support or Anti Infantry Tank due to sheer resistance power against kinetic and explosive AV forms which of course are by far the most common. Might not be as great in Tank vs Tank due to the Madrugar's broken heavy repair modules but damn if a dual hardened Gunlogi with a pair of gunners won't **** on literally everything in the game. It's just as powerful as it was last build for exactly the same reasons as it was supposedly nerfed having a potentially enormous raw HP of 6000, and EHP or something like 8-9K, a natural 10-20% resistances to the most common AV forms plus its hardeners..... and the best thing about it is the passive repair of something like 120 shield without having to fit a single module.
Thing is,I packed a plasma cannon for every battle. And nothing says f*ck you gunny,than a kubos plc and some flux nades.(yes I actually used proto flux grenades)
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
|
Enlightened Cola
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 22:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
lol, tanks, like everything else, is subjected to team-based mechanics, and is balanced through it. There's no confusion on anyones end but you, the GD plebs, who define all tanks into one category.
The thing is, if your running solo, you should get owned. Tanks, ADS, heavies, assaults - all should rely on team work to make advances.
Logi's even more so, but you'll likely find someones back to hug.
And scouts are scouts, they're meant to be all over the place.
But your tank is a friggin' huge object on the field that looks pretty when I blow it up. If you aren't in a squad coordinating, you have no right to make these types of threads. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
21
|
Posted - 2015.12.20 23:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:True Adamance wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:Struggles of the illiterate.
Reserved.
Edit.
First off. If its a caldari tank then yeah. Av tears it apart.
Madrugars, totally different story.
Retreating is a valid tactic seeing a fully fit proto tanks cost more than one million isk,so why take chances?
Lia dai av grenades still need to be thrown correctly because of smaller seek range.
Swarms were also nerfed recently. Shorter lock on range and something about the missile guidance.
Forge guns are meant to be used versus tanks.
And there is such a thing as a weak spot.
And as far as I can glean from your babble,you can't avoid the swarms,av grenades and forge guns,and you want them nerfed.
And continuing even more. It seems like you are just being double teamed. Its called pick your engagements.
Put more skill points into tanks and ask for tips in the locker room part of the forums. What the hell planet are you living on. The Caldari HAV is almost invulnerable to all forms of AV excepting the Plasma Cannon and makes for the best Heavy Support or Anti Infantry Tank due to sheer resistance power against kinetic and explosive AV forms which of course are by far the most common. Might not be as great in Tank vs Tank due to the Madrugar's broken heavy repair modules but damn if a dual hardened Gunlogi with a pair of gunners won't **** on literally everything in the game. It's just as powerful as it was last build for exactly the same reasons as it was supposedly nerfed having a potentially enormous raw HP of 6000, and EHP or something like 8-9K, a natural 10-20% resistances to the most common AV forms plus its hardeners..... and the best thing about it is the passive repair of something like 120 shield without having to fit a single module. Thing is,I packed a plasma cannon for every battle. And nothing says f*ck you gunny,than a kubos plc and some flux nades.(yes I actually used proto flux grenades)
A Kubo's is about the only threat to my 6000 Shield Tank anything else and you have time to move right back from the fight, get some range, and move around plasma cannon shot.
Anything else you just absorb and passively regen through.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
|
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
House of Blue Leaves
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 02:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:True Adamance wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:Struggles of the illiterate.
Reserved.
Edit.
First off. If its a caldari tank then yeah. Av tears it apart.
Madrugars, totally different story.
Retreating is a valid tactic seeing a fully fit proto tanks cost more than one million isk,so why take chances?
Lia dai av grenades still need to be thrown correctly because of smaller seek range.
Swarms were also nerfed recently. Shorter lock on range and something about the missile guidance.
Forge guns are meant to be used versus tanks.
And there is such a thing as a weak spot.
And as far as I can glean from your babble,you can't avoid the swarms,av grenades and forge guns,and you want them nerfed.
And continuing even more. It seems like you are just being double teamed. Its called pick your engagements.
Put more skill points into tanks and ask for tips in the locker room part of the forums. What the hell planet are you living on. The Caldari HAV is almost invulnerable to all forms of AV excepting the Plasma Cannon and makes for the best Heavy Support or Anti Infantry Tank due to sheer resistance power against kinetic and explosive AV forms which of course are by far the most common. Might not be as great in Tank vs Tank due to the Madrugar's broken heavy repair modules but damn if a dual hardened Gunlogi with a pair of gunners won't **** on literally everything in the game. It's just as powerful as it was last build for exactly the same reasons as it was supposedly nerfed having a potentially enormous raw HP of 6000, and EHP or something like 8-9K, a natural 10-20% resistances to the most common AV forms plus its hardeners..... and the best thing about it is the passive repair of something like 120 shield without having to fit a single module. Thing is,I packed a plasma cannon for every battle. And nothing says f*ck you gunny,than a kubos plc and some flux nades.(yes I actually used proto flux grenades) A Kubo's is about the only threat to my 6000 Shield Tank anything else and you have time to move right back from the fight, get some range, and move around plasma cannon shot. Anything else you just absorb and passively regen through.
Ya til the heat sinked dmg modded double hardened rail maddy turns the corner and obliterates the 6k shield 2 hardener gunny because without a heat sinked rail it loses hard to super common maddy rail fit, even proto missles with lvl 5 reload speed on the gunny can't help, especially with how glitchy they are.
Corps: P.R.O.---O.H.---Not Guilty/Pure Innocence---Nyain San---T.o.P.
|
CLONE117
True Pros Forever
947
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 03:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:CLONE117 wrote:
damn right i miss 1.7 tanks.
i didnt run those hardener fits though. i ran a 512.5 hps triple reps maddy as it was more fun. and a glass cannon gunny and sica at times when other people started spamming them.
there were a lot more viable tank fits in 1.7.
which meant even the newberries could hop in and actually help the team rather than pad some1 elses kdr.
though due to the rep speed my tank fit could be considered almost immune to most solo av.
which was just some guy throwing a few av nades at me. or a lone swarm launcher.
2 forgers and you could kiss my tank good bye though.
it could stand up to par with a lot of other fits as well. as i faced a proto hardened blaster maddy during that time period as well.
and ill say that was the longest tank brawl in dust history.
it only ended when the other guy screwed up with modules or had a bug of some sort and started running for the hills as i pursued and finally killed him.
id say that was the only time my tank did run out of ammo. course i also had a terrain advantage and could back up to hide from his turret which melted my armor down to about 500 hp left before he over heated or had to stop to cool down.
though it was hard countered by missile tanks. or orbitals. or 2 persistent dedicated av players. which almost no1 bothered to pull out during that time period. through my experience.
Blegh.... a Rep-Tanked HAV based off of passive modules that requires no acitvation or skill to employ. 1.7 was the end of enjoyable vehicles.
there was never any skill involved in active modules either.
only stupidly annoying bugs..
what involves skill is how you use your fit.
great potential is always there..
it just has yet to be realized
|
vybz kartel4
Nyain Exile.
10
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 04:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
The only officer I run is av, why because I hate tanks lavs dropship anything that is not legs on the battlefield I hate it I don't understand why you guys say Av is op that's flat out bs I run Gaston free 90% of the time I see a tank and they just rip me apart usually the ion cannon and if they don't kill me infantry does also I barely ever see any use Av in this game and I play a lot they usually just hide when the tank appear or hit it enough for it to hide now I see tanks running around with harder hers shaking off Av like it's nothing your probably just **** just being honest or 1 of those guys using mlt tanks thinking you will be godly |
CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
227
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 04:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
My shield tank is insanely op. It is cheap, and beats all but the best anti-tank tanks, (or officer plc) i survoved for 30 seconds being swarmed by 2 people for the entirety of that time. Tanks are nearly invincible when piloted correctly. You are immune to nearly all weapons, don't have to worry about small battlfueld hazzards like remotes on objectives, snipers on rooftops, and someone constantly shooting at you from 100m with rails and such. It is near impossible to die to 1 person when you know they are there. Hell, I had a tank take 13 rounds from a kubos plc with max skills on a commando while being shot by someone else. Tanks are full of problems, but being too weak isn't one of them. Not when you cam simply retreat when your hardeners run low. Vehicles in general need an overhaul so that an engagement is fun for the pilot and the av user. Not either party feeling helpless, or overpowered.
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
|
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
9
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 05:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
It takes roughly 3-4 players with proto AV to finish off 1 tank with hardeners.
/thread
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
|
CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
227
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 05:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:Struggles of the illiterate.
Reserved.
Edit.
First off. If its a caldari tank then yeah. Av tears it apart.
Madrugars, totally different story.
Retreating is a valid tactic seeing a fully fit proto tanks cost more than one million isk,so why take chances?
Lia dai av grenades still need to be thrown correctly because of smaller seek range.
Swarms were also nerfed recently. Shorter lock on range and something about the missile guidance.
Forge guns are meant to be used versus tanks.
And there is such a thing as a weak spot.
And as far as I can glean from your babble,you can't avoid the swarms,av grenades and forge guns,and you want them nerfed.
And continuing even more. It seems like you are just being double teamed. Its called pick your engagements.
Put more skill points into tanks and ask for tips in the locker room part of the forums. What the hell planet are you living on. The Caldari HAV is almost invulnerable to all forms of AV excepting the Plasma Cannon and makes for the best Heavy Support or Anti Infantry Tank due to sheer resistance power against kinetic and explosive AV forms which of course are by far the most common. Might not be as great in Tank vs Tank due to the Madrugar's broken heavy repair modules but damn if a dual hardened Gunlogi with a pair of gunners won't **** on literally everything in the game. It's just as powerful as it was last build for exactly the same reasons as it was supposedly nerfed having a potentially enormous raw HP of 6000, and EHP or something like 8-9K, a natural 10-20% resistances to the most common AV forms plus its hardeners..... and the best thing about it is the passive repair of something like 120 shield without having to fit a single module.
220 now.
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
|
Raven-747
Corrosive Synergy
RUST415
285
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 05:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
150m lock on range for swarms, you need to risk getting close to tank for lai dai at the same time avoiding redberry fire, FGs are a joke unless officer. If your complaining about av keeping all of this in mind then you must really suck hard. Here let me tell you why AV feels so strong because AV focused mercs such as me use maxed out stuff ALL the time. Why you ask? Because that one gv.0 is wrecking blueberries hard. Most of the AV guys you face are using maxed out gear because anything lower than that won't work. Deal with it or quit.
When you headshot a frontline with proto
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