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Vicious Minotaur
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Posted - 2016.01.08 01:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Even given what has been already suggested (admittedly, I skimmed), I still question the game design reasons to keep Militia/Standard gear around.
Why does this gear exist?
Person A: "To let new players have cheap gear to experiment with!"
Person B: "To have a cheap option available for Jews to thrifty individuals!"
Person C: "To have more sense of progression from 'new player' to 'veteran'-status!"
Person D: "To blah blah [insert other argument here] blah!"
But how legitimate are those?
Why do new players HAVE TO experiment with the worst gear in the game? Even if you improve it, it is still bad, and new players will still reach the point where they are going up against better equipped players, which is always going to be harder on them.
And cheap gear? Why does the cheapest gear have to be THREE to FOUR whole teirs of power below the best?
And progression? Why does progression work hand in hand with increase in power?
I have more question than answers, and the above are more rhetorical than anything, but really, the biggest question I have is "how fun is running the worst gear in the game?" I know it ain't too fun. And that is what it comes down to, doesn't it? Does the low end gear have a good impact upon fun? I say no.
How fun are these low end fits, and why are new players (and bad ones like me) relegated to them
I remember back in Chromosome, where we had most chunks of gameplay occur in three tiers: Militia, Standard, and Advanced. Prototype was seldom seen. Militia and standard are mostly identical, so really most of my time in Chrome was fighting within only TWO teirs, and occasionally you'd have a sort of "Boss" battle, some baddie with glowing red eyes... Spooky.
I could ramble on and on, but I don't see how Militia and Standard is good for DUST. Personally, I'd like for ADV become the "new" STD, Proto the new ADV, and officer the new Prototype.
As for The "old" STD and MLT? They become the new bigfoot. I'd explain the simple BPO transition process, but nobody's gunna read this so blah blah, Minotaurs are sexy, blah.
Minotaur Coroner
I'll keep your corpse company! ( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Vicious Minotaur
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Posted - 2016.01.08 04:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
1. Because players have to start somewhere? "Progressing" from better to worse doesn't make much sense. And consider the inverse: let new players experiment with the best gear in the game ... that'd be interesting, but it isn't particularly intuitive.
2. It really shouldn't be. Jumps between tiers should be noticeable but slight. There really shouldn't be instances of PRO being 200% or 300% better than STD.
3. Getting crushed b/c your loadout is many times worse than what others are running is no fun, but advancement is fun. Improvement, progress, return on investment, etc ... these are good feelings. And feeling a little progress alot of times is arguably more fun than feeling alot of progress just one time.
4. If the power gap between tiers was less pronounced, might your position may change? A two-tier system replaces steady, progressive advancement with a much less fulfilling "start here ... upgrade once ... k done".
PS: Just in case you haven't read my earlier posts, I'm not at all arguing in defense of vet perks or maintaining the status quo.
1) Just for reference, in my idea of making Advanced the " lowest level " gear available to new players: If that were to happen, technically, the "new" gear would be the worst in the game, BUT I use the term "worst" in a different manner with emphasis on less tangible connotations. Militia and standard have a hard time standing on their own two legs. How viable is a MLT grade melee fit? Or a speed hack fit?
Lowest level =/= worst (to me).
And I in no way was asking for an inversed progression from good ---> bad.
As I see it, right now progression is: Worst ----> Best
In my mind, it should be: Average ----> Best
But, this is really just splitting hairs... and semantics, and you know who likes semantics? A pedant. Nobody likes a pedant!
3) Progression is indeed fun, but too bad the main form of progression really is "Oooh! Now my gun is 5% better than it was last week!" The progression is mainly vertical. Lessening that verticality is good, no doubt, but it still is "Finally, now that I'm x% better with Myofibrils, melee fits are finally fun!"
In most other games I play (Borderlands, Fallout, TES, other RPG/ish games) progression involves NEW things, not primarily becoming marginally better at the SAME thing. But, that is diverging a bit from the topic.
And another thing about how Progression is in DUST: How much time is spent progressing from MLT->STD or from STD->ADV? How fun is it? For me, at least, most of the progression happens from ADV onward, due to how quick the first levels go.
4) I do indeed want the power gap lessened between tiers... But my qualm with it is: Why do we need FIVE tiers? Yes, you can lessen the power gap by making Militia and Standard suck less... But you could achieve the same results by simply removing a them.
What does FIVE tiers do that THREE can't? Ultimately, what is the game design reason behind having FIVE? I see none, hence me preferring to remove tiers.
And further: what hardware/performance effects are there with FIVE vs THREE? I don't know, but reducing the amount of tiers seems like it could free up some resources or something... But damn it Jim! I'm a Minotaur, not a programmer!
And with regards to balancing gear vs dev time: which would be easier/faster, balancing FIVE tiers, or THREE?
PS: typing with a tablet sucks and my hand is going numb from typing all this.
Minotaur Coroner
I'll keep your corpse company! ( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Vicious Minotaur
3
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Posted - 2016.01.08 08:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
True... I guess we could have, say 100 tiers... But at what cost? From what little I understood of the dev reaction to power cores and all that awesomeness... Assets, all of them have to be loaded into battle, taking resources.
Rhetorical question: How much do modules take in Memory/RAM/Litres? Every single standard and Militia module, being loaded. Suits eat a lot, though, that much is certain...
Sure, compared to textures and 3d models, not much... But even if we could theoretically have infinite tiers balanced via maths and two points, everything in the game needs to be assessed with a resource:benefit ratio. Not all those infinite points have a favorable ratio. So, do the ones we now have posses a favorable one? Only a Developer can really answers, but my gut says "no." (Or maybe it's something I ate, who knows)
I don't necessarily disagree... It's just that I can't for the life of me see how either Militia or Standard can be considered worthwhile "steps."
Every merc is born into militia gear, so to speak. How is it a step? You don't earn it. You don't step to it. No SP investment to get it. It just is there, being bad and cheap gear. It is designed to be stepped out of, if anything.
And Standard? The first, easiest step. Pretty much the same statwise to Militia (yeah you could buff it). How much investment? Both time and SP? Basically nothing... Meh
Perhaps I'm just bored of vertical progression being the only thing in each skill. With every skill and each "Step" you get to say "I'm now marginally better at doing the same thing!"
I'm my head, filled with nonsense and aches, skills would work more like this:
Minmatar Sentinel:
Lvl 1 Basic Sentinel ( ADV stats)
Lvl 3 Adv Sentinel (Proto stats)
Lvl 5 Officer Sentinel
Same as now, really. But what do you start at? You could easily make it so the Basic Sentinel in this example is more like an AUR one: no skills needed. But why SP into it at that point? Well, as is the case now, bonuses don't apply if you don't have the skill at 1+. If the bonus is worthwhile, now you've got a reason, and a step.
Modules are easier. For these, well, I'll concede STD ones have to stay because there are only three tiers (for now, but officer ones'd be cool). Essentially, just delete Militia. But, again where do you start? Again, have an STD version that needs no skill investment, but does not provide the skill bonus to HP/CPU/PG/whatever. Getting that bonus then becomes the first step.
Minotaur Coroner
I'll keep your corpse company! ( -í° -£-û -í°)
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