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Chuckles Brown
268
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Posted - 2015.12.14 22:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
When using AURUM gives you 2000-3000x the advantage, that's pay-to-win.
You can't give someone that slim of a free option to justify calling it free-to-pay. The same reason the lottery can't say "You can win without buying a ticket, because if you find an unclaimed winning ticket, you will be awarded the prize"
VIDEO LINK
A level 8 WB right now is IMPOSSIBLE without Aurum use due to wait walls. Wait walls can only be overcame with AURUM. So, until the 1st ever level 8 WB comes along without using AURUM (Around March or April) it is strictly pay-to-win.
Destroyer or worlds. Breaker of Gods.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
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Posted - 2015.12.14 22:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ah, Masterb8213. How I missed your almost coherent ramblings.
And now for me to make equally as much sense. This has nothing to do with anything.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Bittervet ADS pilot, redheads are hot.
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.12.14 22:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
What exactly is being won? While yes it is more than evident the Warbarge was used as a cash grab, there is very little outcome from it. The only thing I would call pay to win would be the damage bonus from the Warbarge, the rest is rather useless and not worth the aurum/components to put in.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Chuckles Brown
268
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Posted - 2015.12.14 22:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
My opinion of "winning" in this game is simply have more money and assets than your peers. With that, it's pay-to-win right off the bat.
But as far as in-game play advantage. More ISK, SP, damage, and higher tier weapons all give you that.
Destroyer or worlds. Breaker of Gods.
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SOGZ PANDA
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
183
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Posted - 2015.12.15 02:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Chuckles Brown wrote:When using AURUM gives you 2000-3000x the advantage, that's pay-to-win. You can't give someone that slim of a free option to justify calling it free-to-pay. The same reason the lottery can't say "You can win without buying a ticket, because if you find an unclaimed winning ticket, you will be awarded the prize" VIDEO LINKA level 8 WB right now is IMPOSSIBLE without Aurum use due to wait walls. Wait walls can only be overcame with AURUM. So, until the 1st ever level 8 WB comes along without using AURUM (Around March or April) it is strictly pay-to-win.
Wtf
No one FORCES you to pay aurum buddy.
The whole point of the F2P scheme is long wait times vs paying real money for a progress boost. But if you believe you HAVE to pay to get to the next level, you're going to do it.
Even the entire dust514 skill tree is one big F2P money grab. But you still don't HAVE to pay to boost your SP rewards, you can just play........
dust is life...
... uncertain, and usually pretty dissapointing.
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Summa Militum
Abstract Requiem
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 04:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chuckles Brown wrote:When using AURUM gives you 2000-3000x the advantage, that's pay-to-win. You can't give someone that slim of a free option to justify calling it free-to-pay. The same reason the lottery can't say "You can win without buying a ticket, because if you find an unclaimed winning ticket, you will be awarded the prize" VIDEO LINKA level 8 WB right now is IMPOSSIBLE without Aurum use due to wait walls. Wait walls can only be overcame with AURUM. So, until the 1st ever level 8 WB comes along without using AURUM (Around March or April) it is strictly pay-to-win.
We don't even know what subsystems 6, 7, and 8 are going to be. They could end up being crap subsystems that in no way will help you do better in this game.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
4
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Posted - 2015.12.15 04:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
To be fair, "can't be gotten without spending money" is a very, vey poor example when trying to show something is 'Pay to Win.'
With that logic, League of Legends is pay to win because I cannot get Brolaf without spending money.
I have a problem with the Warbarge because of certain modules, specifically the increased damage one. It is basically old school weapon specialization on all weapons and suits and also has massive potential to royally screw with balance. Aside from "I do more damage than you because I paid money", what happens when tanks can shrug off all AV attacks other than those that have that extra 8% damage? Buff AV so the the little guys can be useful and the big guys are utterly destroying vehicles. Keep it the same and AV is basically the most expensive role in the game.
But remove that and I don't think there is that big of a benefit to paying, making the game a lot less 'pay to win.' I do really hate the timers though. "Thanks for supporting the game! Spend more money so you can spend more money!" The game is not supposed to do that crap for when people monetize...
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Leovarian L Lavitz
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
SOGZ PANDA wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:When using AURUM gives you 2000-3000x the advantage, that's pay-to-win. You can't give someone that slim of a free option to justify calling it free-to-pay. The same reason the lottery can't say "You can win without buying a ticket, because if you find an unclaimed winning ticket, you will be awarded the prize" VIDEO LINKA level 8 WB right now is IMPOSSIBLE without Aurum use due to wait walls. Wait walls can only be overcame with AURUM. So, until the 1st ever level 8 WB comes along without using AURUM (Around March or April) it is strictly pay-to-win. Wtf No one FORCES you to pay aurum buddy. The whole point of the F2P scheme is long wait times vs paying real money for a progress boost. But if you believe you HAVE to pay to get to the next level, you're going to do it. Even the entire dust514 skill tree is one big F2P money grab. But you still don't HAVE to pay to boost your SP rewards, you can just play........
Well, more like pay to have more specialities. No need to pay to maximize one specialty.
Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto
Playstation move player
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah, it's not like i milk the fk out of that +5% to both damage types. I've made a game out of it: with proto weapons and damage mods and max skills and +5% warbarge: "how many noobs can i kill with one clip?"
Good times, good times....thanks to Ratttai.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
13
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Chuckles Brown wrote:AURUM gives you 2000-3000x the advantage Over exaggerating a bit, aren't we? I completely agree the augmented ammunition warbarge subsystem is a joke and should be revamped, but "2000-3000x"? Really?
The largest damage bonuses it gives are to massive alpha damage weapons like forge guns, sniper rifles, and PLCs. All of which require a degree of gun game to use and were probably an insta-gib weapon against infantry anyway.
Become the phoenix, rise again
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Chuckles Brown
270
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:AURUM gives you 2000-3000x the advantage Over exaggerating a bit, aren't we? I completely agree the augmented ammunition warbarge subsystem is a joke and should be revamped, but "2000-3000x"? Really? The largest damage bonuses it gives are to massive alpha damage weapons like forge guns, sniper rifles, and PLCs. All of which require a degree of gun game to use and were probably an insta-gib weapon against infantry anyway.
Sadly, I'm not.
If a wait wait is 6 months, and AURUM can eliminate it instantly, it comes out to about 18000%
Wrap your head around this. With AURUM, you can achieve a proto suit in one day. Without, 2 weeks. That's 1400%
Destroyer or worlds. Breaker of Gods.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Idk, dust is more of a pay to win in a month game imo.
On ps4 the true p2w games exist. To me, p2w is: start a new toon, throw money at it, get instant access to endgame gears.
This model runs rampant in almost every game but dust. You cannot buy sp outright in giant chunks. So even if you buy neo photon gear, and pay for lab level 8, you cannot use these until you grind up the skill.
Yes, you could triple stack boosters and use instant boost. Would still take a while, and being a newbros your scores wouldn't give you max potential payout.
Not to mention, were talking several thousand dollars to: start a toon and buy him boosters, cover instant boost for a month @2100 a battle, buy a full aur proto setup and stock it up, buy an apex, then the barge...
This crap about the barge being p2w has to stop. I kinda thought it was at first. Then realized how much money it would take to maxx. We're talking several grand on barge alone. Where the average p2w guy maxes out around 1-300$.
So anyone who was dumb enough to pay to max a system put in place to give us something that lasts YEARS to max normally.. Is both an idiot and awesome at the same time.
Somebody please do the math on barge for total components to max all modules (lol) then I'll tell you exactly how much that person threw at CCP. The guys who run dust. Who need money to make it better.....
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Chuckles Brown
270
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
The amount of money it takes to dump into the game to win is another issue in it's self. The monetizing of this game has been geared at high rollers.
You think it's crazy, but I know plenty of players that have busted $1000s on this game. Myself included. That's how I know first had it's pay-to-win.
So, not only is it pay to win, but it excludes low income people. Remember when one week they had a Market special for the $100 Aurum pack, for $70? To a lot of people that's not a deal or good offer, as $70 can be a lot of money to people.
Destroyer or worlds. Breaker of Gods.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
13
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Chuckles Brown wrote:Without, 2 weeks. That's 1400% Aurum saves time, yes. That has always been the way DUST 514 works... in fact, that's the way many F2P games work. That is the core principle of F2P monetization: you can spend money, or you can spend time. Nothing new to see here and this "2000-3000x" thing is nonsense.
For the record, getting a proto dropsuit can be done in 7 days without purchasing AUR, even for newer characters. Source: I created an alt on another account. Focused on doing my daily missions and just played a lot of matches.
Chuckles Brown wrote:To a lot of people that's not a deal or good offer, as $70 can be a lot of money to people. It's $10 more than a full retail console game in the states... I know low- to- middle income folks who buy a new PS4 game every paycheck...
Become the phoenix, rise again
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Michael Epic
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Chuckles Brown wrote:My opinion of "winning" in this game is simply have more money and assets than your peers. With that, it's pay-to-win right off the bat.
But as far as in-game play advantage. More ISK, SP, damage, and higher tier weapons all give you that.
If winning to you is having more assets than your peers, 8213...then I got news for you buster. I win. I win against you and I win against everyone else.
Except Viktor of course...no one wins against him lol
Viktor Hadah, JR
Michael Epic
Everyone else loses by your theory....because I've got more isk than you can fathom and more assets than you can shake a stick at.
Sorry pal, you lose.
Michael Epic's "EPIC" Proposal to his girlfriend :D
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Chuckles Brown
270
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Michael Epic wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:My opinion of "winning" in this game is simply have more money and assets than your peers. With that, it's pay-to-win right off the bat.
But as far as in-game play advantage. More ISK, SP, damage, and higher tier weapons all give you that. If winning to you is having more assets than your peers, 8213...then I got news for you buster. I win. I win against you and I win against everyone else. Except Viktor of course...no one wins against him lol Viktor Hadah, JR Michael Epic Everyone else loses by your theory....because I've got more isk than you can fathom and more assets than you can shake a stick at. Sorry pal, you lose.
lol, you still think your single diet billion wallet is the highest in the game??
lolololooolllololololooolllololol, even Vik will tell you he's not even close to the richest player in the game. And since you farmed WBs and alts to do it, and used AURUM it only prove my point. Thanks brah.
(this is the part where you start pathologically lying in response to me)
Destroyer or worlds. Breaker of Gods.
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Avallo Kantor
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 17:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Once again, you are using a definition of P2W that is not what it usually means. The definition most people worry about, and care about, is that an power level or item is unobtainable without real life money spent in game.
What you are using is P2W is the Pay to skip, which is a main stay item of most f2p games.
In fact, taking your suggestion that wait walls is p2w, I have compiled a short list of other f2p games that are also p2w.
Warframe,
World of Tanks,
World of Warplanes,
Leauge of Legends,
DOTA,
Heroes of the Storm,
Star Wars the Old Republic,
and the list goes on.
All of these games feature, as you claim, P2W aspects of being able to purchase, via real money, items that would normally take significant in game investment to obtain. SWTOR even allows you to purchase lvl 60 characters straight out, a feat that could take 'normal' f2p people months to obtain.
LoL, and games of it's make can let you p2w by buying every character and rune you need, giving you some measure of in game advantage. Not to mention the exp boosters you can buy.
Either way you end up with the same basic premise: If you claim that a wait wall is a form of P2W, then you must also admit that all F2P games, to some extent, are P2W. If this is true, then DUST is not doing anything malicious by having a similar system in place, because it is a normal feature of these type of games.
On the other hand if you claim that P2W is only obtaining items you cannot in game, then I must again state that DUST has no such items. Every item obtainable via AUR is obtainable with an ISK variant, aside from the Market aid, and Respecs. However, due to the fact that you have daily log in bonuses with AUR, you can obtain these for "free" after a period of waiting.
What you can not claim is that DUST somehow has done some monetization tactic that is not present in other games in this monetization scheme. Either you have to accept this is an aspect of F2P games and continue to play them, or decide to only stick with games that require payment up front for their experiences so you need not worry about any further monetization.
Unless you want to play games like:
Halo,
World of Warcraft,
Assassin's Creed,
Call of Duty,
Dead Space
All of which now are $60 games that ALSO have microtransactions for you to, as you claim, p2w, as they allow you to obtain things faster. (For the record, I really dislike microtransactions in my full price games)
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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Drago Mouse
No one from no where
10
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Posted - 2015.12.15 18:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Besides your statement of leveling the warbarge to 8 without aur is a joke.
Going from level 5 to level 8 is the cheapest of the high level upgrades.
Just waiting the cool down period builds enough components for the upgrades. |
sizwe sizzle
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
33
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Posted - 2015.12.15 19:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:
For the record, getting a proto dropsuit can be done in 7 days without purchasing AUR
Please explain how you can get about 2.7m sp without boosters because a week you can earn about 800k sp due to weekly sp cap how did you get 2.7m sp
I MAKE THE SCR LOOK VERY OP!!!!
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Pope Chester
514 MAFIA
21
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Posted - 2015.12.15 19:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
sizwe sizzle wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:
For the record, getting a proto dropsuit can be done in 7 days without purchasing AUR
Please explain how you can get about 2.7m sp without boosters because a week you can earn about 800k sp due to weekly sp cap how did you get 2.7m sp
Maybe he means skilling into a dropsuits to 3 and purchasing protos from the loyalty store. |
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Michael Epic
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 19:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Chuckles Brown wrote:Michael Epic wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:My opinion of "winning" in this game is simply have more money and assets than your peers. With that, it's pay-to-win right off the bat.
But as far as in-game play advantage. More ISK, SP, damage, and higher tier weapons all give you that. If winning to you is having more assets than your peers, 8213...then I got news for you buster. I win. I win against you and I win against everyone else. Except Viktor of course...no one wins against him lol Viktor Hadah, JR Michael Epic Everyone else loses by your theory....because I've got more isk than you can fathom and more assets than you can shake a stick at. Sorry pal, you lose. lol, you still think your single diet billion wallet is the highest in the game?? lolololooolllololololooolllololol, even Vik will tell you he's not even close to the richest player in the game. And since you farmed WBs and alts to do it, and used AURUM it only prove my point. Thanks brah. (this is the part where you start pathologically lying in response to me)
Don't need to lie to ya, bruh. Have nothing to lie about....just burns your ass how much better you know I am than you. So I need you to go back to your floppy fatty girlfriend and your dead end job before I start mailing sex toys addressed to you at your workplace and get you fired :D
Michael Epic's "EPIC" Proposal to his girlfriend :D
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maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 19:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Michael Epic wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:Michael Epic wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:My opinion of "winning" in this game is simply have more money and assets than your peers. With that, it's pay-to-win right off the bat.
But as far as in-game play advantage. More ISK, SP, damage, and higher tier weapons all give you that. If winning to you is having more assets than your peers, 8213...then I got news for you buster. I win. I win against you and I win against everyone else. Except Viktor of course...no one wins against him lol Viktor Hadah, JR Michael Epic Everyone else loses by your theory....because I've got more isk than you can fathom and more assets than you can shake a stick at. Sorry pal, you lose. lol, you still think your single diet billion wallet is the highest in the game?? lolololooolllololololooolllololol, even Vik will tell you he's not even close to the richest player in the game. And since you farmed WBs and alts to do it, and used AURUM it only prove my point. Thanks brah. (this is the part where you start pathologically lying in response to me) Don't need to lie to ya, bruh. Have nothing to lie about....just burns your ass how much better you know I am than you. So I need you to go back to your floppy fatty girlfriend and your dead end job before I start mailing sex toys addressed to you at your workplace and get you fired :D
Oooh! Rekt! Reeeeeekt! Flip sh!t! Hey Michael how much money do you have anyway? Most I've ever had at once was 70mill before trading came out
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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Michael Epic
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 19:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:Michael Epic wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:Michael Epic wrote:Chuckles Brown wrote:My opinion of "winning" in this game is simply have more money and assets than your peers. With that, it's pay-to-win right off the bat.
But as far as in-game play advantage. More ISK, SP, damage, and higher tier weapons all give you that. If winning to you is having more assets than your peers, 8213...then I got news for you buster. I win. I win against you and I win against everyone else. Except Viktor of course...no one wins against him lol Viktor Hadah, JR Michael Epic Everyone else loses by your theory....because I've got more isk than you can fathom and more assets than you can shake a stick at. Sorry pal, you lose. lol, you still think your single diet billion wallet is the highest in the game?? lolololooolllololololooolllololol, even Vik will tell you he's not even close to the richest player in the game. And since you farmed WBs and alts to do it, and used AURUM it only prove my point. Thanks brah. (this is the part where you start pathologically lying in response to me) Don't need to lie to ya, bruh. Have nothing to lie about....just burns your ass how much better you know I am than you. So I need you to go back to your floppy fatty girlfriend and your dead end job before I start mailing sex toys addressed to you at your workplace and get you fired :D Oooh! Rekt! Reeeeeekt! Flip sh!t! Hey Michael how much money do you have anyway? Most I've ever had at once was 70mill before trading came out
Enough to make 8213 aka Chuckles Brown, Chuckles Green with Envy ;)
Michael Epic's "EPIC" Proposal to his girlfriend :D
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maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 19:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
I was hoping for a more specific number than that Mikey boy.
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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Michael Epic
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 20:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:I was hoping for a more specific number than that Mikey boy.
I understand that....
BUT the last time I gave specific numbers to anyone, it was 8213 aka Chuckles Brown. You know what he did? He ran and tattled on me to CCP Archduke and we had a nice conversation about that where Archduke very politely laid out what I was doing that COULD be considered a bannable offense. Not that it IS considered a bannable offense but it COULD be decided it was a breach of the Dust 514 EULA.
Then, once CCP Archduke and I finished talking through the Dust 514 support ticket system and I complied with his advice and everyone was happy and satisfied, 8213 took it upon himself to LIE and say that CCP Archduke and he talked and I was lying about the resolve, even though it was on a support ticket.
The reason why 8213 is so pathetic is because he's a wonky looking loser who has an inflated ego because of his YouTube channel. If you search him out, you can find that he's really gnarly looking and his girlfriend is gnarly looking too and he works at a dead end factory job.
This guy is your typical neckbeard gamer without a neckbeard. He's really truly pathetic in my opinion and its offensive that he plays the same game as I do.
But that's just how I feel....so sorry I can't give you specific numbers because if I did...he'd run and go create a support ticket and Archduke and I would be talking again and I'd have to assure him I am complying with his advice and the EULA for Dust 514 as we agreed upon in the support ticket.
That just seems like a hassle to me, that's all. For CCP Archduke and myself.
Michael Epic's "EPIC" Proposal to his girlfriend :D
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Daemonn Adima
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
668
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Posted - 2015.12.15 20:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
I bet 12 isks |
Chuckles Brown
270
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Posted - 2015.12.15 20:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Do you just make things up to entertain yourself? Or, is it to fool 14 year olds that don't know any better?
How about you just post a picture of your wallet, okay brah?
Or is it spread through the 300 alts you claim to have? That's right folks, 300... At 1 minute per alt (which we all know it takes longer but, we'll keep it simple) it would take 5 hours to farm them per day...
I'd get into it with personal life things, but I see that those things are not the business of others, despite how wrong your assumptions may be.
So, post a picture of your wallet and be done with it. Then, you can come up with more lies, because it's what people like you do on the interwebs..
Then after that, you can come up with a counter-argument as to how wait walls are not p2w
cheers
Destroyer or worlds. Breaker of Gods.
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Avallo Kantor
1
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Posted - 2015.12.15 22:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Chuckles Brown wrote:Do you just make things up to entertain yourself? Or, is it to fool 14 year olds that don't know any better?
How about you just post a picture of your wallet, okay brah?
Or is it spread through the 300 alts you claim to have? That's right folks, 300... At 1 minute per alt (which we all know it takes longer but, we'll keep it simple) it would take 5 hours to farm them per day...
I'd get into it with personal life things, but I see that those things are not the business of others, despite how wrong your assumptions may be.
So, post a picture of your wallet and be done with it. Then, you can come up with more lies, because it's what people like you do on the interwebs..
Then after that, you can come up with a counter-argument as to how wait walls are not p2w
cheers
Again, I would ask you to please review my earlier post on the subject.
Generally speaking P2W is not defined as a "wait wall" but instead as an advantage that can not be obtained with -ANY- amount of in game time / effort. An easy example lies in many Asian mobile games where, with a few dollars, you can buy items that are flat out superior than anything a free player can hope to obtain.
This is not the case in DUST, as there are legitimate in game means to obtain all items, as well as in game means to acquire ways to obtain WB components in a faster way than simple passive generation.
As stated in my previous post most to all f2p games have some variant of wait walls that require either in game effort or time, or real life money to bypass. This is not new to this type of monetization scheme, nor is it unique to DUST. You have to understand that what DUST is doing is not unlike what other F2P games do, except in a fairly straight forward way.
You are free to claim however that wait walls meets your standard for "P2W", but you should understand with that claim that:
1) Your claim of what P2W will not match that of others, and you will have to understand that difference in opinion will lead to others stating that your accusation is wrong.
2) Your claim of P2W becomes equally applicable to a majority of F2P games on the market, and even some Full Price games with micro-transactions included. As such, your claim indicates a large swath of games as P2W, which makes DUST part of a far larger collection of games.
3) The claim that most F2P games are P2W means that perhaps this monetization strategy for games is not compatible for you, and perhaps you should avoid all games of this type if you have serious issues with P2W.
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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