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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.03 20:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why would we buff the laser rifle?
Amarr Loyalist
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.04 01:35:00 -
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Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Why would we buff the laser rifle? it was brought up ina thread along with buffing scr and changing amar assault bonus i dont like the idea of making my favorite gun easier to use as when its used with skill its actually ina really solid place the reason lr isnt used as much isnt because there is anything wrong with the gun its range or even its damage its just not easy to use it doesnt spray it has 0 tolerance for missing 0 kick and its 100% accurate which means if you cant aim you cant use this gun at all nothing wrong with it ide like to keep the few skill based guns dust has most everything in this game is a spray and pray gun very few guns actually require you to aim the ones that do normally also have really strong hipfire bolt pistol ion pistol sc pistol the only ones i know of that dont are lr and sr Laser Rifle aiming is everything and the most crucial part of using it. What you said about the Scrambler is true in close range, but at long range it does require skill to use and precision aiming.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.04 14:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:Every race apart form Amarr has a light AV weapon...
Don't hesitate, make the LR AV. I already got the stats in a spreadsheet on my Amarr Commando and Assault balancing thread.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.04 15:20:00 -
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Mortedeamor wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:Every race apart form Amarr has a light AV weapon...
Don't hesitate, make the LR AV. dont make the lr av ..make an av variant ..they had best not change the current lrs role ..unfortunately that'll kill dust for me actually go ahead ccp im addicted to the lr not dust go ahead i shouldnt be playing this piece of crap anyways if it wasnt for my problem with shiny things :/ I already have the stats for a new varient of a laser rifle that will require no new assets. I call it the "Breach Laser Rifle"
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.04 17:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:Every race apart form Amarr has a light AV weapon...
Don't hesitate, make the LR AV. dont make the lr av ..make an av variant ..they had best not change the current lrs role ..unfortunately that'll kill dust for me actually go ahead ccp im addicted to the lr not dust go ahead i shouldnt be playing this piece of crap anyways if it wasnt for my problem with shiny things :/ I already have the stats for a new varient of a laser rifle that will require no new assets. I call it the "Breach Laser Rifle" link ? \ just dont buff lr ..this is why http://imgur.com/J3GGbMXi will get board For some reason it won't let me link things, just look in GD and look in the thread "Feedback: Amarr Commando and Assault balancing"
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.05 21:09:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:We weren't looking at buffing it so much as altering it to work on the other amarr suits.
Until they work efficiently on the commandos, scouts and logis they aren't just fine.
But we're looking at zero-sum alterations that don't change the overall performance of the weapon. Did you see my proposal on the Amarr Commando and Assault? This will fix the LR to be viable on both the Assault AND Commando. I don't know about logis and scouts though because I don't play those.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.05 23:12:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:We weren't looking at buffing it so much as altering it to work on the other amarr suits.
Until they work efficiently on the commandos, scouts and logis they aren't just fine.
But we're looking at zero-sum alterations that don't change the overall performance of the weapon. Did you see my proposal on the Amarr Commando and Assault? This will fix the LR to be viable on both the Assault AND Commando. I don't know about logis and scouts though because I don't play those. Scanned it. Your bonus changes aren't something that I really support. Replacing a good bonus with several lackluster ones on the amarr assault isn't a way I'd like to go there. I'll put better feedback in the thread once I let the thoughts percolate fully. Pleased to hear it! Looking forward to the feedback, as I want to make my proposal as perfect as possible.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.07 03:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:
Dont. If the Laser is usable on the amarr commando because overheat isnt as quick the damage bonus will lead to an inevitable nerf of the laser rifle,
Doubtful, given the commando bonus plus two damage mods won't out-DPS an amarr assault by more than 3-5% as best case scenario. I've already run the numbers. Even a two mod commando versus a three mod assault the DPS difference is the difference between 18% and some change and 21% and some change. Not enough to significantly change TTK, and even then, I'm still intending the amarr assault to be able to go longer before overheating than the commando. All this would do is close the gap between the suits, not causing the sky to fall. Yeah, I have done the math and a Commando at level 5 with a proto viziam lr with no proficiency will still do do 943 less damage before overheating than an Amarr Assault at level 5 under the same circumstances.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.07 17:49:00 -
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Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:
Dont. If the Laser is usable on the amarr commando because overheat isnt as quick the damage bonus will lead to an inevitable nerf of the laser rifle,
Doubtful, given the commando bonus plus two damage mods won't out-DPS an amarr assault by more than 3-5% as best case scenario. I've already run the numbers. Even a two mod commando versus a three mod assault the DPS difference is the difference between 18% and some change and 21% and some change. Not enough to significantly change TTK, and even then, I'm still intending the amarr assault to be able to go longer before overheating than the commando. All this would do is close the gap between the suits, not causing the sky to fall. Yeah, I have done the math and a Commando at level 5 with a proto viziam lr with no proficiency will still do do 943 less damage before overheating than an Amarr Assault at level 5 under the same circumstances. the way the lr functions makes in inherently better on the amar assault more firing time means everything the commando could fire 10 more rounds without breaking it but they should do that by buffing the suit... not the lr... if they add it to the lrs...it will make them a lot stronger on the amar assault which im probably the only person in dust to not want that but.... 10 extra rounds should really do..if amar commando had a 2% reduction to heat build up per skill lvl If you looked at my proposal, then that is exactly what I have done.
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XxBlazikenxX
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Posted - 2015.11.07 17:58:00 -
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I actually did it by 3% because I wanted it to be weaker than the 5% that the Amarr Assault got, but I wasn't sure which number to go with.
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XxBlazikenxX
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Posted - 2015.11.07 18:27:00 -
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Damage depends on how long you have been continuously firing it, not how much heat is built up. Gosh, that is like laser rifle 101 right there.
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XxBlazikenxX
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Posted - 2015.11.07 18:40:00 -
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deezy dabest wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Damage depends on how long you have been continuously firing it, not how much heat is built up. Gosh, that is like laser rifle 101 right there. First of all there is no clarification there what so ever. We know how quiet CCP is about EXACT mechanics but that is why I covered both scenarios. Assuming you are correct that means a heat build up reduction would send per clip DPS through the roof for the commando / lr combo. When you account for a native damage bonus, damage mods, profile, and warbarge bonuses you have an OP situation which means the nerf bat is incoming before it has even happened. Also lets not forget that at the same time an increase in cool down would give the commando more ability to natively use the ScR without creating a situation like we are seeing with the ScR/Assault combo. Actually it does say when you first spawn in, "Continuous fire increases damage dealt" or something like that.
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XxBlazikenxX
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Posted - 2015.11.07 19:15:00 -
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Mortedeamor wrote:deezy dabest wrote:A heat build up reduction goes into a bit of an unexplained area.
Some say that continuous fire builds damage on the laser rifle while others say it is simply tied to the amount of heat the weapon has built up. Personally I feel like it is tied to heat build up.
So we enter into 2 very different but very broken scenarios.
Option A) Damage is tied to continuous fire.
If this is the case then a huge reduction to heat build up then the commando would be able to reach DPS levels that the LR was never meant to reach. Add that in with damage mods and warbarge bonuses and we revert to the old days of the laser rifle becoming a light saber that you just swing around with the damage built up and cut people in half.
Needless to say shield users will flip and the nerf is already incoming.
Option B) Damage is tied to heat build up
This would mean that by giving the commando a reduction to heat build up you are making it take longer to reach the DPS levels of every other suit which is effectively a nerf. That would also lower the total damage output of single clip which seems odd as a "bonus".
This just makes it even less popular than it is and hurts the current users.
The solution to either problem is simple.
Give the commando an increased bonus to cool down time. The exact number on this would depend heavily on which mechanic actually multiplies the damage but no matter what it proves to be far more beneficial than playing with heat build up which I think we have already seen is one tough cookie to balance. it is not tied to heat build up its tied to continuous fire you are completely wrong Yep, what he said.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.07 19:23:00 -
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deezy dabest wrote:Mortedeamor wrote: it is not tied to heat build up its tied to continuous fire you are completely wrong
Let me help you out with something here. op-+tion -ê+ñpSH(+Ö)n/ noun 1. a thing that is or may be chosen. Keep arguing over the fact that I presented multiple possible options and not over the fact that no matter what it is a broken idea to give the commando a reduction to heat build up along with a damage bonus and all of the other damage bonuses now in this game. People wonder why balance will never happen in this game. Here I will help you out on your next post: No you are wrong thats not true no no no avoiding the actual facts wrong wrong no no no No it is not broken to give it a heat reduction because that is the one thing which sets laser weapons apart from other weapons. The Amarr Commando is supposed to be a god with a Scrambler and Laser, but it can't do that because of the heat reduction. Likewise the Amarr Assault is OP because of that bonus, so naturally the bonus given to the Commando would be less than that. Unless we do a complete overhaul of laser weaponry, the only way the Commando will ever become balanced is through that method.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
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Posted - 2015.11.07 19:26:00 -
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deezy dabest wrote:Have fun.
Okay.
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XxBlazikenxX
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Posted - 2015.11.07 19:34:00 -
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KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Laser rifles are pretty much fine and are an EXCELLENT addition to the game.
However, the Victor's Laser Rifle (especially on an amarr suit) is ridiculously powerful.
I dare to claim that it's performance is relatively much higher than any other officer gun when comparing to respective proto variant. Only in certain cases where it shines. We can easily say the same for the Bon's shotgun or even the Ghalag's BP.
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XxBlazikenxX
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Posted - 2015.11.07 20:12:00 -
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KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote: Only in certain cases where it shines. We can easily say the same for the Bon's shotgun or even the Ghalag's BP.
But I am comparing vic to both bons and ghals. I make the claim that vic's performance gain is way greater than bons' or ghal's. Ghal RR is, after all, 'just' a rail rifle. The extreme beam on -time has a lot to do about it. Not overheating is a crutch, weapon of that type (laser) should always have that management to consider. The only suit you wouldn't overheat with the viks is a proto Amarr Assault, and yes I do agree that the Amarr Assault is OP, but not the Vik's laser rifle.
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XxBlazikenxX
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Posted - 2015.11.07 23:43:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:The only change I am even entertaining as more than a bad joke would be splitting and combining the amarr assault and the operation skills.
I.E. amarr assault gets 2% heat reduction, 3% cooldown
But the operation gets 3% heat reduction, 2% cooldown.
Anything else just hits me as a bad idea because I agree, the weapon is actually very good in the right hands. But putting a straight heat reduction on the commando would necessitate removing the damage bonus most likely.
So some variation of the above is the most likely solution rather than adding to the laser rifle's damage.
As I said, I'm looking at zero-sum changes that make the weapon easier to deploy on other suits but don't buff the weapon for the amssault overall, nor take away the amarr assault cooldown supremacy.
Actually making the laser more effective at a baseline would absolutely create an FOTM dumpster gun. Something none of us want.
But the weapon being useless on every other suit needs to be flyshed straight down the toilet So much, this, oh my gosh, so much this!!!!
*goes to edit proposal
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XxBlazikenxX
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Posted - 2015.11.09 05:17:00 -
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And I will fine tune my proposal when I have the time to do it.
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