DUST Search - Amarr Commando Balancing

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Luther Mandrix wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

XxBlazikenxX wrote:

I also want to let you know that what led me to make this thread was the report by Rattati on suit usage in PC. I am a firm believer that a suit is truly "good" when it receives regular usage in PC. I was shocked by the data as almost no one uses it in PC. In fact, I believe I was the last one to ever use it in PC.

people are always going to gravitate to what they percieve as "best" overall for competitive modes like PC.

In the absence of a true FOTM setup, people will gravitate to what is most readily familiar to them in gameplay style. For most players that familiarity comes from assault dropsuits.

When a clear superiority is eliminated, most people will revert to the standard FPS method of assault + battle rifle.

Commandos are an oddball niche setup, and sentinels are sluggish to anyone who doesn't use them more or less exclusively and it takes a special brand of maniac to not find scouts too fragile.

Please give us some loadouts
Highs/Lows/Light weapon/light weapon/Equipment
Apex Amar Commando what do you change or do you go Proto Isk suit to get more cpu/pg you need?

My amarr commandos invariably go:

Damage mod
Damage mod
Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive)
Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive)
Rep
AScR
LR
Hive
Do you heat up your laser before moving it to the target or do you keep it on target as it heats up?

OR

Damage mod
Damage mod
Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive)
Rep
Cardiac Regulator
AScR
LR
Hive

Generally I can get this fit going at any tier. I don't use Ferroscales as the amarr focus seems to work better when you can just eat more punishment than the guy trying to kill you.

It's overly simplistic as far as loadouts go, but it works for me.

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XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.30 17:17:00 - [1] - Quote Here is a link to the Amarr Commando thread I made in GD. I made this thread because I surveyed 24 people and 21/24 said it was underpowered. I also realize that almost none (correct me if I am wrong) of the CPM play the Amarr Commando or if they do, they do not play it frequently. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=219746&find=unread Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.31 01:04:00 - [2] - Quote I actually run the amarr commando frequently when i have time to rock matches. When you take it in the context of the AScR + laser rifle it is amazing as a suppression platform as long as you are dealing with shield suits. In closer the AScR does amazingly well killing most targets, but you have to pick your fights carefully. What I feel is golding the amarr commando back is the same thing holding the calmando back: lack of relevant weapon choices. You have scramblers and laser rifles that take advantage of the ammamdos strengths. The caldari have rail rifles and sniper rifles. Swarms are more of a consolation prize IMHO. But the gallente have a better overall feel with their weapons and the minmatar are easier to apply in battle. The amarr commandos can be solidly tanked, or fit for mobility, and have decent EHP overall. The bonuses aren't terrible, but the weapon selection just isn't there. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.31 01:07:00 - [3] - Quote How do you feel about extra PG? And a BLR? Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.31 01:22:00 - [4] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: How do you feel about extra PG? And a BLR? I'm in wait and see mode honestly. I haven't had any trouble fitting my commandos the way others claim, but I also don't follow accepted meta either. If I see a compelling need to talk to rattati about it, I will, but in the meantime if you come up with suggestions, write them down. Build a spreadsheet and show us the pros, cons and intent you want to show. That kind of thing tends to grab attention. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.31 01:26:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: How do you feel about extra PG? And a BLR? I'm in wait and see mode honestly. I haven't had any trouble fitting my commandos the way others claim, but I also don't follow accepted meta either. If I see a compelling need to talk to rattati about it, I will, but in the meantime if you come up with suggestions, write them down. Build a spreadsheet and show us the pros, cons and intent you want to show. That kind of thing tends to grab attention. Will do, the things I mainly want to change are the bonus, and the fact that the Amarr is the only Commando now without an AV weapon. Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.31 01:42:00 - [6] - Quote I also want to let you know that what led me to make this thread was the report by Rattati on suit usage in PC. I am a firm believer that a suit is truly "good" when it receives regular usage in PC. I was shocked by the data as almost no one uses it in PC. In fact, I believe I was the last one to ever use it in PC. Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.31 19:15:00 - [7] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: I also want to let you know that what led me to make this thread was the report by Rattati on suit usage in PC. I am a firm believer that a suit is truly "good" when it receives regular usage in PC. I was shocked by the data as almost no one uses it in PC. In fact, I believe I was the last one to ever use it in PC. people are always going to gravitate to what they percieve as "best" overall for competitive modes like PC. In the absence of a true FOTM setup, people will gravitate to what is most readily familiar to them in gameplay style. For most players that familiarity comes from assault dropsuits. When a clear superiority is eliminated, most people will revert to the standard FPS method of assault + battle rifle. Commandos are an oddball niche setup, and sentinels are sluggish to anyone who doesn't use them more or less exclusively and it takes a special brand of maniac to not find scouts too fragile. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 00:29:00 - [8] - Quote https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QN5Ay-vDhUHdRLCI4tK3QMMDScJdlHnne5AZqjIduX0/edit?usp=sharing Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL RUST415 654	Posted - 2015.11.01 09:49:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: I also want to let you know that what led me to make this thread was the report by Rattati on suit usage in PC. I am a firm believer that a suit is truly "good" when it receives regular usage in PC. I was shocked by the data as almost no one uses it in PC. In fact, I believe I was the last one to ever use it in PC. people are always going to gravitate to what they percieve as "best" overall for competitive modes like PC. In the absence of a true FOTM setup, people will gravitate to what is most readily familiar to them in gameplay style. For most players that familiarity comes from assault dropsuits. When a clear superiority is eliminated, most people will revert to the standard FPS method of assault + battle rifle. Commandos are an oddball niche setup, and sentinels are sluggish to anyone who doesn't use them more or less exclusively and it takes a special brand of maniac to not find scouts too fragile. Please give us some loadouts Highs/Lows/Light weapon/light weapon/Equipment Apex Amar Commando what do you change or do you go Proto Isk suit to get more cpu/pg you need?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.11.01 11:22:00 - [10] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: I also want to let you know that what led me to make this thread was the report by Rattati on suit usage in PC. I am a firm believer that a suit is truly "good" when it receives regular usage in PC. I was shocked by the data as almost no one uses it in PC. In fact, I believe I was the last one to ever use it in PC. people are always going to gravitate to what they percieve as "best" overall for competitive modes like PC. In the absence of a true FOTM setup, people will gravitate to what is most readily familiar to them in gameplay style. For most players that familiarity comes from assault dropsuits. When a clear superiority is eliminated, most people will revert to the standard FPS method of assault + battle rifle. Commandos are an oddball niche setup, and sentinels are sluggish to anyone who doesn't use them more or less exclusively and it takes a special brand of maniac to not find scouts too fragile. Please give us some loadouts Highs/Lows/Light weapon/light weapon/Equipment Apex Amar Commando what do you change or do you go Proto Isk suit to get more cpu/pg you need? My amarr commandos invariably go: Damage mod Damage mod Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive) Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive) Rep AScR LR Hive OR Damage mod Damage mod Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive) Rep Cardiac Regulator AScR LR Hive Generally I can get this fit going at any tier. I don't use Ferroscales as the amarr focus seems to work better when you can just eat more punishment than the guy trying to kill you. It's overly simplistic as far as loadouts go, but it works for me. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 15:00:00 - [11] - Quote Hmm, at proto can you fit all proto? I'm betting not, but I'm going to protofits just to make sure Amarr Loyalist Amarr Commando Forever Ancient Exiles. Member
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 15:08:00 - [12] - Quote http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/12927 (Ignore the name) As you can see here it is not possible to fit all proto on an Amarr Commando, however on Gallente Commando, which has a similar slot loadout... http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/12927 It is much easier to fit proto and you sacrifice less than the Amarr Commando. Amarr Loyalist Amarr Commando Forever Ancient Exiles. Member
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL RUST415 655	Posted - 2015.11.01 19:10:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: I also want to let you know that what led me to make this thread was the report by Rattati on suit usage in PC. I am a firm believer that a suit is truly "good" when it receives regular usage in PC. I was shocked by the data as almost no one uses it in PC. In fact, I believe I was the last one to ever use it in PC. people are always going to gravitate to what they percieve as "best" overall for competitive modes like PC. In the absence of a true FOTM setup, people will gravitate to what is most readily familiar to them in gameplay style. For most players that familiarity comes from assault dropsuits. When a clear superiority is eliminated, most people will revert to the standard FPS method of assault + battle rifle. Commandos are an oddball niche setup, and sentinels are sluggish to anyone who doesn't use them more or less exclusively and it takes a special brand of maniac to not find scouts too fragile. Please give us some loadouts Highs/Lows/Light weapon/light weapon/Equipment Apex Amar Commando what do you change or do you go Proto Isk suit to get more cpu/pg you need? My amarr commandos invariably go: Damage mod Damage mod Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive) Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive) Rep AScR LR Hive Do you heat up your laser before moving it to the target or do you keep it on target as it heats up? OR Damage mod Damage mod Plate (Not Ferro/Reactive) Rep Cardiac Regulator AScR LR Hive Generally I can get this fit going at any tier. I don't use Ferroscales as the amarr focus seems to work better when you can just eat more punishment than the guy trying to kill you. It's overly simplistic as far as loadouts go, but it works for me. Do you heat up laser first then move to target or do you keep it on target as it heats up?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.11.01 21:49:00 - [14] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/12927 (Ignore the name) As you can see here it is not possible to fit all proto on an Amarr Commando, however on Gallente Commando, which has a similar slot loadout... http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/12927 It is much easier to fit proto and you sacrifice less than the Amarr Commando. Your Gal Commando link isn't working. Does the loadout you're describing work on any Commando? Commando gk.0 (invalid loadout: pg/cpu exceeded) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Plates (x2), Cmp Rep PW: Pro AR, Pro PLC EQ: Pro Hive Commando ak.0 (invalid loadout: pg/cpu exceeded) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Plates (x2), Cmp Rep PW: Pro ASCR, Pro Laser EQ: Pro Hive Commando mk.0 (invalid loadout: pg/cpu exceeded) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2), Cmp Shield LS: Cmp Plates (x2) PW: Pro MD, Pro CR EQ: Pro Hive Commando ck.0 (invalid loadout: pg/cpu exceeded) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2), Cmp Shield LS: Cmp Plates (x2) PW: Pro Rail, Pro Swarms EQ: Pro Hive Dropsuit Usage Rates
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 21:51:00 - [15] - Quote Yes you make a good point Shotty, no commando can ever go full proto, but on the Amarr Commando even more so. I think from your data (which I haven't even thought about until this point) calls for a PG/CPU reduction bonus for all Commandos. Or no? Amarr Loyalist Amarr Commando Forever Ancient Exiles. Member
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.11.01 21:54:00 - [16] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Yes you make a good point Shotty, no commando can ever go full proto, but on the Amarr Commando even more so. I think from your data (which I haven't even thought about until this point) calls for a PG/CPU reduction bonus for all Commandos. Or no? I don't think that any suit can fit the best of everything. I'm personally OK with that. It makes choosing what to run on a given suit more interesting. Dropsuit Usage Rates
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 21:59:00 - [17] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Yes you make a good point Shotty, no commando can ever go full proto, but on the Amarr Commando even more so. I think from your data (which I haven't even thought about until this point) calls for a PG/CPU reduction bonus for all Commandos. Or no? I don't think that any suit can fit the best of everything. I'm personally OK with that. It makes choosing what to run on a given suit more interesting. Yeah, but every other suit can fit more of the best than the Amarr Commando Amarr Loyalist Amarr Commando Forever Ancient Exiles. Member
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:22:00 - [18] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Yes you make a good point Shotty, no commando can ever go full proto, but on the Amarr Commando even more so. I think from your data (which I haven't even thought about until this point) calls for a PG/CPU reduction bonus for all Commandos. Or no? I don't think that any suit can fit the best of everything. I'm personally OK with that. It makes choosing what to run on a given suit more interesting. Yeah, but every other suit can fit more of the best than the Amarr Commando Not sure whether or not that's the case, but it shouldn't be tough to prove one way or the other. Let's revisit the above examples, but this time try to make them valid ... Commando gk.0 (valid) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Plates (x2), Cmp Rep PW: Adv AR, Adv PLC EQ: Compact Hive Commando ak.0 (invalid ... needs +4 PG) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Plates (x2), Cmp Rep PW: Adv ASCR, Adv Laser EQ: Compact Hive Commando mk.0 (invalid ... needs +7 PG) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2), Cmp Shield LS: Cmp Plates (x2) PW: Adv MD, Adv CR EQ: Compact Hive Commando ck.0 (invalid ... needs +8 PG) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2), Cmp Shield LS: Cmp Plates (x2) PW: Adv Rail, Adv Swarms EQ: Compact Hive Compared to the others, looks to me like the GA Commando has too much flexibility. Just to be safe, swapped out the PLC (zero PG) for an ADV Shotgun + ADV AR ... still valid. If I were driving the bus, I'd be more likely to nerf GA resources than buffing the other three. Dropsuit Usage Rates
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:22:00 - [19] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Yes you make a good point Shotty, no commando can ever go full proto, but on the Amarr Commando even more so. I think from your data (which I haven't even thought about until this point) calls for a PG/CPU reduction bonus for all Commandos. Or no? I don't think that any suit can fit the best of everything. I'm personally OK with that. It makes choosing what to run on a given suit more interesting. Yeah, but every other suit can fit more of the best than the Amarr Commando Not sure whether or not that's the case, but it shouldn't be tough to prove one way or the other. Let's revisit the above examples, but this time try to make them valid ... Commando gk.0 (valid) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Plates (x2), Cmp Rep PW: Adv AR, Adv PLC EQ: Compact Hive Commando ak.0 (invalid ... needs +4 PG) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Plates (x2), Cmp Rep PW: Adv ASCR, Adv Laser EQ: Compact Hive Commando mk.0 (invalid ... needs +7 PG) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2), Cmp Shield LS: Cmp Plates (x2) PW: Adv MD, Adv CR EQ: Compact Hive Commando ck.0 (invalid ... needs +8 PG) HS: Cmp Dmg (x2), Cmp Shield LS: Cmp Plates (x2) PW: Adv Rail, Adv Swarms EQ: Compact Hive Compared to the others, looks to me like the GA Commando has too much flexibility. Just to be safe, swapped out the PLC (zero PG) for an ADV Shotgun + ADV AR ... still valid. I just realized that I said Amarr Commando, what I was meaning to say was Commandos in general, my mistake. Amarr Loyalist Amarr Commando Forever Ancient Exiles. Member
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:36:00 - [20] - Quote Right on. If you're comparing resource constraints, I'd recommend assessing the class as a whole rather than focusing on X versus Y. At first glance, looks like you could argue that either the GA Commando has too much fitting capacity or the other three have too little. I'd defer to the commando experts, though; not really my department ... though I do very much enjoy the suits. Here are my two favorite AM Commando loadouts: HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Rep, Cmp Plate, Enh Plate PW: Pro Laser + Adv ASCR EQ: Compact Hive HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Rep, Cmp Plate, Enh Plate PW: Adv Laser + Adv Laser EQ: Compact Hive Dropsuit Usage Rates

XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 22:44:00 - [21] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Right on. If you're comparing resource constraints, I'd recommend assessing the class as a whole rather than focusing on X versus Y. At first glance, looks like you could argue that either the GA Commando has too much fitting capacity or the other three have too little. I'd defer to the commando experts, though; not really my department ... though I do very much enjoy the suits. Here are my three favorite AM Commando loadouts to date: HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Rep, Cmp Plate, Enh Plate PW: Pro Laser + Adv ASCR EQ: Compact Hive HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Cmp Rep, Cmp Plate, Enh Plate PW: Adv Laser + Adv Laser EQ: Compact Hive HS: Cmp Dmg (x2) LS: Enh Plate (x3) PW: Adv Laser + Adv Laser EQ: Allotek Hive I didn't know you play Amarr Commando. My opinion of you has gone up, if that's possible. Amarr Loyalist Amarr Commando Forever Ancient Exiles. Member
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.11.02 00:18:00 - [22] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Yes you make a good point Shotty, no commando can ever go full proto, but on the Amarr Commando even more so. I think from your data (which I haven't even thought about until this point) calls for a PG/CPU reduction bonus for all Commandos. Or no? As stated by devs in the past the intent is for no suit to be able to just fit all proto. In this case the nanohives on my fits are lesser varieties and/or get sacrificed for survivability or firepower WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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