DUST Search - NEW PLAYERS: Leaving Games Is Best Defense Against Stomps

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Zatara Rought wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

@ Ghost

Am I understanding correctly that your position is largely "everything NPE is fine" and that the only thing holding newbros back is a lack of training / FPS experience? If that's correct, we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe that the state of NPE can and should be improved upon.

Besides, if TTK is no big deal, then vets won't mind if/when theirs is tuned to more closely match that of newbros (or vice versa). Right?

PS: The answer to your question is that mobility plays a part in survivability.

I don't think he was suggesting NPE shouldn't be mproved upon...or that everything NPE is fine.

Did I miss the part where Ghost acknowledges problems and/or proposes solutions as it relates it NPE? What I've seen so far from him is "newbros are doing it wrong ... that's the problem" and "all newbros need is more training ... that's the solution".

Maybe he's right on some level, but other factors -- such as the TTK Gap and Wealth Gap which separate vets from newbros -- certainly play a part and certainly are not helping NPE. There's so much more we can do for newbros than tell them that they're doing it wrong.


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Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 131	Posted - 2015.10.27 05:39:00 - [1] - Quote Honestly, the veterans have better gear, and passive, and what have you, but you know what else we have? Experience. That absolutely trumps all. I have taken somewhere around 6 toons through the academy. Every single time, (barring the first), I have managed to come out with something close to 30 kills in my very first match. At some point in time you need to just learn to play better. You're not going to do that if you're always running away from fights. Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.
Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 131	Posted - 2015.10.27 06:07:00 - [2] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: (barring the first) I... umm. Who do you think we are talking about when we say 'new players'? (not that I'm for this whole match-leaving idea, more just maybe not throwing new players into matches comprised of 90% well established players, or if we have to do that maybe not adding a 90% TTK disadvantage to them while they're trying to learn the game) You totally and utterly failed to see the point of the post....... The point is that when you're a new player you're going to have trouble, but you still need to stick it out so you can get better. If you're playing on a team, and you have at least a half-full roster you shouldn't leave. It's not fair to either side. I gave that little anecdote about going through The Academy six times to illustrate the difference between veterans and noobs no matter how much isk, or sp they have. Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.
Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 131	Posted - 2015.10.27 10:55:00 - [3] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: ShamelessALT wrote: If you think the old days were harder then now for new players, I wanna have whatever the hell you are smoking... It's interesting that everyone saying things are easier now are completely ignoring just how many other new players they had the luxury of going up against when they were new too. Like, not a single one even acknowledges it. A couple of little improvements here and there doesn't mean squat when you're a new player being thrown to the wolf pack that is the current playerbase. That's where I come in. I joined when this game was already somewhere around a year old. I faced the hardships of lower HP, higher damage, a lower weekly SP cap, the nonexistence of rail and combat rifles, and I was constantly broke. Simultaneously, most of the playerbase probably already had at least one fit that was full proto. Not once have I rage quit a battle. I took my stomps like a good little boy, and now I'm here. Even today my favorite fit is an ADV Cal assault with two ADV flaylocks. I've gotten to the point where I'll face a full squad of proto stompers, and laugh as I go 24/7. You can't just leave. You need to practice getting around them. If you never face the stompers you'll never learn how to deal with them. Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.
Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 132	Posted - 2015.10.28 01:23:00 - [4] - Quote Travis Stanush wrote: I think its funny the newberries complain so much about stopming. I still remember Nyain San /Chan Stomping Ambush all day everyday with full proto squads and Ion blaster tanks. but hey NPE is so much worse now right? Oh yes, the NS/NC ambush stomps. Back when they all had SSDs, and could get in 6 proto tanks on the field before you even spawned. That's the environment my merc grew up in. I quickly learned that beating my head against that wave was stupid. I quickly learned that the best way to deal with it was to run for my life, and then come back once the fighting cooled down to pick off some reds. My playstyle is actually a product of the NPE back when I started. I'm interested in seeing the playstyles of the newbies. This experience will only serve to make the next wave of newbies even better. I'll be the first to admit that I've been absolutely trashed by players running basic, and even militia gear. If they want to get that good they need to jump into this trial by fire, not get scared and leave the battles. Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.
Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 132	Posted - 2015.10.28 04:14:00 - [5] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: This Dust 514 doesn't compare to the old Dust 514. When somebody said git gud scrub, you could actually sit down, calculate your mistakes, hone your skills, and learn Dust warfare. Now its a bunch of gamers who use the cheapest tactics while using forums to change metas for personal attempt at digital stardom. Like ChicagoCubs4Ever mutated; that guy sucked at other FPS games but somehow was a star here. Oh and Guitar Hero is awesome! That's funny. It's easy to talk sh*t about someone who led one of best corps in this game. He was also one of the best FC's hands down if not the best. It's a shame how he went about quitting dust. I bet this guy's definition of "the cheapest tactics" boil down to "any tactics I don't personally use." Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.
Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 153	Posted - 2015.10.28 18:01:00 - [6] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Agreed that better tutorials + extending academy duration would help. But these will not narrow the TTK gap which separates high-end loadouts from their low-end equivalents. Actually, better tutorials, and extending the academy would fix basically everything wrong with NPE. Including TTK. Think about it, if you're in the academy until you get roughly around 5 million SP that means you can come out with proto gear assuming you're not a complete moron. At that point, kicking you into the main game would be fine because the TTK gap would be close to non-existent. Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.
Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 155	Posted - 2015.10.28 20:54:00 - [7] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Kail Mako wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Agreed that better tutorials + extending academy duration would help. But these will not narrow the TTK gap which separates high-end loadouts from their low-end equivalents. Actually, better tutorials, and extending the academy would fix basically everything wrong with NPE. Including TTK. Think about it, if you're in the academy until you get roughly around 5 million SP that means you can come out with proto gear assuming you're not a complete moron. At that point, kicking you into the main game would be fine because the TTK gap would be close to non-existent. Early career players can't afford to consistently run Advanced Gear. Do you expect they'd be able to afford Proto? Making ISK today is easier than it was back when I started. The payouts are higher, and the Warbarge didn't exist to give me free ISK every day. I was still able to consistently make money by simply farming ambush. Remember, I started when all of the vets had proto gear already, and there was massive tank stomping by NS. The secret to this is called avoidance. You can get a massive advantage with a sniper, or a scout suit. Also, during this event I ran at least half of my matches in an ADV suit with two ADV flaylocks. Yes, two flaylocks. My most used suit costs under 50K I managed to make 10mil ISK during the event despite everyone kill hoarding. I consistently place in the top 5 on my team. Oh, and think about how long it takes to make 5 million SP. Let's suppose that you make a little over a million a week. (That's highballing by the way, especially for new players who are likely to barely make half of that). That means you have a roughly a whole month in the academy to farm ISK running militia, and basic gear. If you haven't managed to get enough money to run ADV or Proto when you get to the real game then there really isn't any helping you. Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.
Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 175	Posted - 2015.10.29 22:01:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Ghost Am I understanding correctly that your position is largely "everything NPE is fine" and that the only thing holding newbros back is a lack of training / FPS experience? If that's correct, we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe that the state of NPE can and should be improved upon. Besides, if TTK is no big deal, then vets won't mind if/when theirs is tuned to more closely match that of newbros (or vice versa). Right? PS: The answer to your question is that mobility plays a part in survivability. I don't think he was suggesting NPE shouldn't be mproved upon...or that everything NPE is fine. Did I miss the part where Ghost acknowledges problems and/or proposes solutions as it relates it NPE? What I've seen so far from him is "newbros are doing it wrong ... that's the problem" and "all newbros need is more training ... that's the solution". Maybe he's right on some level, but other factors -- such as the TTK Gap and Wealth Gap which separate vets from newbros -- certainly play a part and certainly are not helping NPE. There's so much more we can do for newbros than tell them that they're doing it wrong. At this point all we can do is willingly die for the newbros or mentor them. It's not up to us to change the NPE. It's up to CCP. Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.
Kail Mako Capital Acquisitions LLC 181	Posted - 2015.10.31 00:13:00 - [9] - Quote As far as I see it, the best solution will be extending the Academy. My suggestion is would be until they have somewhere around 5-7 million SP. Upon graduation you can give them one free respect. This will solve 90% of the problems brought up here. -The newbros don't have enough training.- They'll now have more. -The newbros don't know what to spec into!- That's what the respec is for. -The newbros have to fight people running full proto gear in STD!- Well, with 5-7 mil SP I hope the newbros weren't so dumb they didn't at least get one ADV/Proto suit and gun. -The newbros don't have the game/map knowledge vets have!- By the time they graduate academy they should have at least a month's worth of play. That's enough to deeply familiarize yourself with the game. -The gap between STD, and Proto is too high!- No longer a problem. Since everyone in the academy will be running ADV or lower, and once they get out they should be able to run ADV consistently. -The newbros can't afford to run all ADV!- That's largely dependent on skill. By the time they get out of the Academy, they should have a nice amount of ISK saved up. If we think the average STD suit costs 20k, and they are able to get an average payout of 200k then they should be able to die ten times. Very rarely does that happen. They should have enough ISK saved up to consistently run ADV gear by the time they graduate the Academy Officially recognized for advancing the science of getting bent.