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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.10.21 14:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a good topic, we should stick with it until we produces some answers.
There's a core game design problem we need to solve. I like to call it the buckets of ISK problem, bISK for short.
The game design problem is bISK. Forget PC 1.0 - we all agree it was foolish, destructive, irresponsible and slovenly for CCP to allow things to go on as they did for so long. Whatever. There's been stupidity in the past, there'll be other stupidities in the future, that doesn't change our collective game-design problem, bISK.
I'm gonna say something now, you gotta promise not to laugh out loud until i'm done: one day this game will be fully integrated with EVE. If not this game, some other shooter set in New Eden. Point is, once economic integration happens, the peeps who have bISK now will be pretty much the same peeps who have bISK then, because the big EVE alliances will take good care of their elite ground forces - very good care.
So, given that the top-end PvP corps will always be dripping with bISK, how do we design DUST Pubs & FW such that the bISK doesn't destroy the gameplay for the rest of the playerbase, especially the noobs?
I would say the other design criteria are:
- Don't break up the playerbase, a single shard is New Eden's greatest strength.
- Discourage passive behavior, AFKing, etc.
- Encourage engaging the enemy and contributing to the team regardless of the odds.
If we can solve the bISK problem(and a few others), a full reset would be unnecessary and serve the needs of the game far into the future. But burn it down or not, the bISK problem has not been solved yet, by the devs or the playerbase.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.10.21 15:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:...*snip*...
Honest questions here.
Does the bISK problem exist in Eve? If so how is it mitigated?
My experience with eve consisted of flying around killing worthless pirates and shooting lasers at rocks. I always needed more isk but honestly I did not find it very entertaining to play. The lore and universe is super cool but... Yeah boring. I like dust because it's good classic video game fps fun.
Perhaps we can take some notes from eve...
bISK exists in EVE, for for several reasons it's not the problem it is here.
- The sandbox is divided by security rating - doesn't make noobs 100% safe from vets but there's several mechanisms(insurance, pilot security standing) that make the logistics of farming noobs considerably more of a PITA.
- In DUST with our lobby-shooter structure vets and noobs are crammed into the same matches together. If we had an open world structure like EVE this would be a very different conversation. Not a possibility atm, however.
- There are no game balance mechanisms to stop vets from preying on noobs - this is why we have officer stomp squads and vets squadding with noobs to get into the lower matchmaking tier.
- EVE has multiple forms of PvE, some of which is largely boring and repetitive in and of itself, but is spiced up by the potential PvP aspect and the cat-and-mouse game that always exists. Most importantly it's an activity where noobs can learn more about the game while making some ISK without facing the old gods in PvP all day long.
The primary thing about the vet-noob balance question and bISK in DUST is that we have to make it all work inside of a lobby shooter match structure. I would argue that to serve New Eden and the playerbase, we need to do this without breaking players up into segregated communities.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.10.21 15:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote:... how do we do that ? Like this: * Kill a merc with more SP than you, receive a small bonus to EOM SP earnings.
* Kill a merc with substantially more SP than you, receive a substantial bonus to EOM SP earnings.
* Kill a merc in higher meta gear than yours, receive a small Isk bonus EOM.
* Kill a merc in substantially higher meta gear than yours, receive a substantial Isk bonus EOM.
Given enough time and activity, newbros would begin to close the experience and wealth gap which separates them from veterans. This could make for rapid, activity-focused and performance-driven career advancement. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2817081#post2817081
Support this strongly. Noobs might still get turned to paste, but they'll be progress faster and be rewarded if they stand up to the wolf packs and would them a little bit.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 17:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
byte modal wrote:Don't forget that EvE BPO's are not perma-objects that you can simply fit and forget. It's just a recipe list that still requires resources to create the fitted object. Resources cost time to collect and/or ISK to purchase in order to make a completely destructible item. The argument of how DUST decided to handle BPOs goes way back, but now that they're part of every day use it doesn't come up much anymore. There's been a lot of wonky decisions made over the course of development. To be honest, I'm not sure anything but a clean port correcting the mistakes learned (hopefully?) during this pseudo beta game's life. Shame really, but that's the only way I see balance. The player base is currently too small, fragile, and territorial to survive most of the changes needed to make right what is wrong. New life comes with a port and a new player base, building the game the way it should have been done to begin with. Most vets will probably p!ss and moan and as much as I hate to admit it, they're right to do so---only in so much that CCP created the environment of player entitlement in which that attitude thrives. Just my 0.02ISK though. YMMV. idunno anymore. I'm actually sad that I don't know anymore, and getting to a point where I'm not sure I care anymore either. This is the first post in a while that I've not been trolling of goofing. That in and of itself says a lot to me. hm.... 
Also agree re BPO: 'This isn't EVE' doesn't make the decision for BPOs to have absolutely no cost any less senseless - it's another design decision that removes meaning from the game and its gameplay. Wrong way to go, imo - if we want to reflect New Eden without all the overhead(bpo, bpc, mineral & resource inputs, research and manufacturing costs, etc.) we could just say BPOs reduce the cost of a suit by 2/3.
Easy. Still helps out helps out players, adds meaning to decisions and gameplay, reflects the values of New Eden, aligns the economy and expectations of the playerbase for eventual integration with EVE.
PSN: RationalSpark
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