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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Abstract Requiem
8
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Posted - 2015.10.17 20:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
I would buy a PS4 for DUST.
Creator of the Nova Knifers United channel
Dreis' Minja Blog
CEO of Abstract Requiem
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Yoda Boss
Dem Durrty Boyz
314
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
I have one but don't use it. Sad but true
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒGû¬.°n+í¤GÿåGùÅ.° GÖñGÖíTrade/saleGÖºGÖñ
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KGB Sleep
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
X
MGO, Destiny, GTAV, Helldivers, Magicka 2, Bloodborne. Sensorium Gaming.
Because beer, that's why.
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Jammeh McJam
XxAMBUSH FTWxX The Empire of New Eden
382
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
In an ideal world i'd say PC and PS4, but i'm afraid it isn't soooo...
PC master race ofc :)
Steam name - Jammeh McJam
PC master race
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Jammeh McJam
XxAMBUSH FTWxX The Empire of New Eden
382
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kaltos Darksbane wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Kaltos Darksbane wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:can't and probably won't be able to...why are people so opposed to it being on both PC and PS4? Because it will probably be on pc for at least a year before porting to ps4. Some people like myself wont want to wait a year to continue playing. Not to mention all the pc haxks and mods that will obliterate console users. Oh, and X. Hacks and or cheats are most common in cracked games where they aren't under the supervision of the producers of the game. Even then it's fairly rare now take EVE and warframe as an example, extremely strict against cheaters. Now if you're worried about aimbot then forget your fears, it can only do so much against this game's above average TTK and people with high sp will be discouraged from cheating anyway in fear of losing their account You assume I trust CCP to ensure it. Eve is thier cash cow so of course they would monitor there. Dust on the other hand isnt a cash cow and i am wary of them really caring about such things. Might not even have the manpower there in Shanghai to keep a good watch over it. Im not trying to bash the guys there just being realistic. Money talks and all that. However if DUST does get ported, it will become a good source of money for CCP, meaning they would monitor it to the same level as eve if not more due to the fact that it's an FPS
Steam name - Jammeh McJam
PC master race
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Thor Odinson42
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
X, and it collects Dust while I play Dust
"Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing."
-Captain Obvious
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Kaltos Darksbane
Shadow Wolves Inc.
859
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Posted - 2015.10.17 22:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Kaltos Darksbane wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Kaltos Darksbane wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:can't and probably won't be able to...why are people so opposed to it being on both PC and PS4? Because it will probably be on pc for at least a year before porting to ps4. Some people like myself wont want to wait a year to continue playing. Not to mention all the pc haxks and mods that will obliterate console users. Oh, and X. Hacks and or cheats are most common in cracked games where they aren't under the supervision of the producers of the game. Even then it's fairly rare now take EVE and warframe as an example, extremely strict against cheaters. Now if you're worried about aimbot then forget your fears, it can only do so much against this game's above average TTK and people with high sp will be discouraged from cheating anyway in fear of losing their account You assume I trust CCP to ensure it. Eve is thier cash cow so of course they would monitor there. Dust on the other hand isnt a cash cow and i am wary of them really caring about such things. Might not even have the manpower there in Shanghai to keep a good watch over it. Im not trying to bash the guys there just being realistic. Money talks and all that. However if DUST does get ported, it will become a good source of money for CCP, meaning they would monitor it to the same level as eve if not more due to the fact that it's an FPS
This is another assumption. Given CCP's track record with dust, it isnt very reassuring. Please dont misunderstand me, i want the best for this game. Ive just become very jaded with CCP as a whole when it comes to dusts treatment. I am sure Rattati is doing his best with what he has available to him. The person i really question what he is doing is CCP Rouge. Where the hell has he been in all this lately? Isnt he the creative director or something? Or is he just over there collecting a paycheck being a yes man to CCP upper management?
If you don't receive the answer you want please be patient, my "F**k's Given" dispenser is broke.
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Lady MDK
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
442
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Posted - 2015.10.17 22:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:can't and probably won't be able to...why are people so opposed to it being on both PC and PS4?
Cus the console only kids don't want their turbo controllers to be outdone by op aimbots
Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following.
I don't care so neither should you :)
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Dergle
Ancient Exiles.
125
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Posted - 2015.10.17 23:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
X
Ignore your instincts at your peril.
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BARAGAMOS
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
349
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Posted - 2015.10.17 23:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas.
Putting it on PS4 ruins any dream of it ever being viable.....So the only dream is for console users here....
Sorry to the console crowd, but if its going to survive the PC is the only real platform. Doing this same dance in 4-5 years will not produce the longevity most of us want. Sorry some people can't or won't invest in the needed PC to play the game, but ultimately that just means they were not really the crowd a major title wants to monetize with. Truth is truth even if it hurts and sounds harsh, but CCP is a business not an entertainment charity, and using someone else's platform on a suboptimal system makes no real sense. This is especially true when you consider the platform has a super minority of users in the industry and in 4-5 years will be replaced by another platform that requires a port.
As for the hacks concern, STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA. It does not happen on subscription games. You do it once and you get caught and banned. So, that lame ass excuse needs to stop. Anyone with any knowledge at all knows that will not be an issue. You don't see EVE crashing down to hacks or WOW or even League of Legends. That argument is a non starter, which means there is really no argument you can make that shows PS4 is better than PC for a port. |
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Alaika Arbosa
2
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Posted - 2015.10.17 23:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
X
Also looking for games to install that I haven't already played on a previous generation.
Though, TBH, I wouldn't gripe about having had Dust on a previous generation.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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DEATH THE KlD
Imperfect - Bastards
546
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas. Putting it on PS4 ruins any dream of it ever being viable.....So the only dream is for console users here.... Sorry to the console crowd, but if its going to survive the PC is the only real platform. Doing this same dance in 4-5 years will not produce the longevity most of us want. Sorry some people can't or won't invest in the needed PC to play the game, but ultimately that just means they were not really the crowd a major title wants to monetize with. Truth is truth even if it hurts and sounds harsh, but CCP is a business not an entertainment charity, and using someone else's platform on a suboptimal system makes no real sense. This is especially true when you consider the platform has a super minority of users in the industry and in 4-5 years will be replaced by another platform that requires a port. As for the hacks concern, STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA. It does not happen on subscription games. You do it once and you get caught and banned. So, that lame ass excuse needs to stop. Anyone with any knowledge at all knows that will not be an issue. You don't see EVE crashing down to hacks or WOW or even League of Legends. That argument is a non starter, which means there is really no argument you can make that shows PS4 is better than PC for a port. As soon as steam machines get good I'm sure most of us won't mind but I currently don't feel like buying a desktop
CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF -Heimdallr69
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:I would buy a PS4 for DUST. Same here. Agree with Cat Merc it has to be one or the other. Preference is PS4.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vicious Minotaur
3
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas. Putting it on PS4 ruins any dream of it ever being viable.....So the only dream is for console users here.... Sorry to the console crowd, but if its going to survive the PC is the only real platform. Doing this same dance in 4-5 years will not produce the longevity most of us want. Sorry some people can't or won't invest in the needed PC to play the game, but ultimately that just means they were not really the crowd a major title wants to monetize with. Truth is truth even if it hurts and sounds harsh, but CCP is a business not an entertainment charity, and using someone else's platform on a suboptimal system makes no real sense. This is especially true when you consider the platform has a super minority of users in the industry and in 4-5 years will be replaced by another platform that requires a port. As for the hacks concern, STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA. It does not happen on subscription games. You do it once and you get caught and banned. So, that lame ass excuse needs to stop. Anyone with any knowledge at all knows that will not be an issue. You don't see EVE crashing down to hacks or WOW or even League of Legends. That argument is a non starter, which means there is really no argument you can make that shows PS4 is better than PC for a port.
PS4s are basically PCs. You know what that means?
Multiplat.
Multirevenue.
Multiverse.
In this day and age, reasons to make a game not-multivitamin are diminishing faster than VWs reputation. (Certain genres, excluded [not shooters])
STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA! Make DUSTs future multipass, today!
I'm the Minotaur
You! Yes, you! You are an illiterate little twit.
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Kaltos Darksbane
Shadow Wolves Inc.
859
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 00:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas. Putting it on PS4 ruins any dream of it ever being viable.....So the only dream is for console users here.... Sorry to the console crowd, but if its going to survive the PC is the only real platform. Doing this same dance in 4-5 years will not produce the longevity most of us want. Sorry some people can't or won't invest in the needed PC to play the game, but ultimately that just means they were not really the crowd a major title wants to monetize with. Truth is truth even if it hurts and sounds harsh, but CCP is a business not an entertainment charity, and using someone else's platform on a suboptimal system makes no real sense. This is especially true when you consider the platform has a super minority of users in the industry and in 4-5 years will be replaced by another platform that requires a port. As for the hacks concern, STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA. It does not happen on subscription games. You do it once and you get caught and banned. So, that lame ass excuse needs to stop. Anyone with any knowledge at all knows that will not be an issue. You don't see EVE crashing down to hacks or WOW or even League of Legends. That argument is a non starter, which means there is really no argument you can make that shows PS4 is better than PC for a port.
Ok, so lets just go with the business aspect then. Where is there more money located? Thats right, console. You want more players? Again, console. CCP just has to be willing to spend a bit to see more money flow in. But we all know the higher ups just arent willing to do that. Show us all where pc has higher numbers than any console.
If you don't receive the answer you want please be patient, my "F**k's Given" dispenser is broke.
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postapo wastelander
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas.
Honestly i do not want port. If something new game!!
TBH - i will not support broken game on new console |
JEDI LORD HOTH
29
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
X
Bitter Vet Syndrome (stage III)
My doctor prescription says to play on my PS4 twice a day every 4 hours.
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postapo wastelander
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas. Putting it on PS4 ruins any dream of it ever being viable.....So the only dream is for console users here.... Sorry to the console crowd, but if its going to survive the PC is the only real platform. Doing this same dance in 4-5 years will not produce the longevity most of us want. Sorry some people can't or won't invest in the needed PC to play the game, but ultimately that just means they were not really the crowd a major title wants to monetize with. Truth is truth even if it hurts and sounds harsh, but CCP is a business not an entertainment charity, and using someone else's platform on a suboptimal system makes no real sense. This is especially true when you consider the platform has a super minority of users in the industry and in 4-5 years will be replaced by another platform that requires a port. As for the hacks concern, STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA. It does not happen on subscription games. You do it once and you get caught and banned. So, that lame ass excuse needs to stop. Anyone with any knowledge at all knows that will not be an issue. You don't see EVE crashing down to hacks or WOW or even League of Legends. That argument is a non starter, which means there is really no argument you can make that shows PS4 is better than PC for a port.
Sorry some people my 4rs3 most of supporters are consolists ergo Ps4 is only way. As for hacks LoL (can hack), WoW (can hack), EvE (will propably crash in another server overload) ergo NOPE4PC H4x0r4ac3 XD |
Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
postapo wastelander wrote:Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas. Honestly i do not want port. If something new game!! TBH - i will not support broken game on new console Have to agree as well. Say we were to launch the game now as is to PS4... We would end up like day one or probably worse since DUST has already a bad name and considering all the tech problems we still have. We need a new title and game not just a simple port if we want this game to live on the Playstation brand.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Dergle
Ancient Exiles.
125
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Gtfo baragamos. Nobody asked you to say anything here besides if you have a ps4 or will have one by Xmas. God you're annoying...
Ignore your instincts at your peril.
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IVIaster LUKE
986
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
X
Fair Winds & Following Seas.
Scrounge McDuck has left the building. G£în+Å
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Kaltos Darksbane
Shadow Wolves Inc.
859
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas. Honestly i do not want port. If something new game!! TBH - i will not support broken game on new console Have to agree as well. Say we were to launch the game now as is to PS4... We would end up like day one or probably worse since DUST has already a bad name and considering all the tech problems we still have. We need a new title and game not just a simple port if we want this game to live on the Playstation brand.
I think we all would agree to this. It would need to be a total overhaul before going to a new system no matter if it was to pc or ps4.
If you don't receive the answer you want please be patient, my "F**k's Given" dispenser is broke.
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BARAGAMOS
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
349
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Posted - 2015.10.18 01:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:BARAGAMOS wrote:Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas. Putting it on PS4 ruins any dream of it ever being viable.....So the only dream is for console users here.... Sorry to the console crowd, but if its going to survive the PC is the only real platform. Doing this same dance in 4-5 years will not produce the longevity most of us want. Sorry some people can't or won't invest in the needed PC to play the game, but ultimately that just means they were not really the crowd a major title wants to monetize with. Truth is truth even if it hurts and sounds harsh, but CCP is a business not an entertainment charity, and using someone else's platform on a suboptimal system makes no real sense. This is especially true when you consider the platform has a super minority of users in the industry and in 4-5 years will be replaced by another platform that requires a port. As for the hacks concern, STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA. It does not happen on subscription games. You do it once and you get caught and banned. So, that lame ass excuse needs to stop. Anyone with any knowledge at all knows that will not be an issue. You don't see EVE crashing down to hacks or WOW or even League of Legends. That argument is a non starter, which means there is really no argument you can make that shows PS4 is better than PC for a port. PS4s are basically PCs. You know what that means? Multiplat. Multirevenue. Multiverse. In this day and age, reasons to make a game not-multivitamin are diminishing faster than VWs reputation. (Certain genres, excluded [not shooters]) STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA! Make DUSTs future multipass, today!
They ARE NOT PCs, you know what that means?
A PC is a PC the PS4 is not and is a proprietary platform. We point this out in a half dozen other threads. Get your **** straight. There seems to be some confusion among the lesser educated crowd here. The PS4 is NOT a universal platform and is not Windows, MAC, Linux, android, iOS or any other operating system that is used by a PC compatible. You have to develop the game FOR it, and it will not magically port to the PC.
I like many others don't relish the spending of cash to upgrade or purchase a system to run a high end competitive shooter on PC, but I am not going to let that motivate me to lie and say they PS4 is in any way a better option for a port than to PC. Personal bias and technological ignorance may lead some to make those claims, but in reality the PC environment is in EVERY way superior to the console for this game. Point in case, if it had been originally released on PC we would not be having this discussion at all.
Nothing wrong with bringing it to PS4, but a PS4 only port has not real arguments over a PC port. Simply making up **** and holding our breath till we get our way will not change that. Multiple systems would be great, but if we only get one then from a technological and monetary standpoint PC is the clear winner with no viable argument in favor of a console port.
So all platforms would be great, but a port to not even highest selling console only....come on....that makes absolutely no sense and you can offer no real argument for it.
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BARAGAMOS
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
349
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Posted - 2015.10.18 01:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kaltos Darksbane wrote:BARAGAMOS wrote:Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas. Putting it on PS4 ruins any dream of it ever being viable.....So the only dream is for console users here.... Sorry to the console crowd, but if its going to survive the PC is the only real platform. Doing this same dance in 4-5 years will not produce the longevity most of us want. Sorry some people can't or won't invest in the needed PC to play the game, but ultimately that just means they were not really the crowd a major title wants to monetize with. Truth is truth even if it hurts and sounds harsh, but CCP is a business not an entertainment charity, and using someone else's platform on a suboptimal system makes no real sense. This is especially true when you consider the platform has a super minority of users in the industry and in 4-5 years will be replaced by another platform that requires a port. As for the hacks concern, STOP THE BS PROPAGANDA. It does not happen on subscription games. You do it once and you get caught and banned. So, that lame ass excuse needs to stop. Anyone with any knowledge at all knows that will not be an issue. You don't see EVE crashing down to hacks or WOW or even League of Legends. That argument is a non starter, which means there is really no argument you can make that shows PS4 is better than PC for a port. Ok, so lets just go with the business aspect then. Where is there more money located? Thats right, console. You want more players? Again, console. CCP just has to be willing to spend a bit to see more money flow in. But we all know the higher ups just arent willing to do that. Show us all where pc has higher numbers than any console.
485000 +/- subscriptions for EVE per month as of last October. Did not bother to hunt down newer numbers, but you get the picture. So in what dreams do you believe that the console players are willing to spend almost $8 a month to support DUST or that there is more money on console than PC? Because its not. Initial purchase money for titles is over 95% of console revenues, and this is split between all producers of gaming titles not one company. So unless you want to pay $2000 to have dust as a title on your PS4 and convince everyone who currently owns a PS4 to do the same you are not even going to get close to the revenue PC generates for this one company alone. So no the money has not been located on the console for many years, that's why you don't see any new competitors in that market. Its an outdated concept and not a main business line any more for a reason.
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NoExsplosionsMgee
Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance
461
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Posted - 2015.10.18 01:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
X
PRAISE THE SUN!! \ |Gö¼|' /
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BARAGAMOS
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
349
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Posted - 2015.10.18 01:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
Dergle wrote:Gtfo baragamos. Nobody asked you to say anything here besides if you have a ps4 or will have one by Xmas. God you're annoying...
Or you could READ the original post as there was a lot more said there... Illiteracy, that's what's annoying. Not all of us agree with his version of what the "Dream" was.
I really don't care if they have a multiplatform port. That would be great, but when you compare a PC to the PS4 there is not a legitimate argument in favor of the later as a better option. |
Jammeh McJam
XxAMBUSH FTWxX The Empire of New Eden
382
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Posted - 2015.10.18 01:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Dergle wrote:Gtfo baragamos. Nobody asked you to say anything here besides if you have a ps4 or will have one by Xmas. God you're annoying... Or you could READ the original post as there was a lot more said there... Illiteracy, that's what's annoying. Not all of us agree with his version of what the "Dream" was. I really don't care if they have a multiplatform port. That would be great, but when you compare a PC to the PS4 there is not a legitimate argument in favor of the later as a better option. I agree with literally everything you've said so far, unfortunately this game is so plagued with console peasants that even uttering 'PC' will end up with a bunch of people crying at you trying to make you think that their outdated hardware/software is better than a PC.
The funny part is most of those console peasants have no idea what they're talking about.
Steam name - Jammeh McJam
PC master race
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Dergle
Ancient Exiles.
125
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Posted - 2015.10.18 01:51:00 -
[58] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Dergle wrote:Gtfo baragamos. Nobody asked you to say anything here besides if you have a ps4 or will have one by Xmas. God you're annoying... Or you could READ the original post as there was a lot more said there... Illiteracy, that's what's annoying. Not all of us agree with his version of what the "Dream" was. I really don't care if they have a multiplatform port. That would be great, but when you compare a PC to the PS4 there is not a legitimate argument in favor of the later as a better option.
Maybe YOU should read. The OP never asked for anyone to display their opinions or what they 'think' they know... Only to x up showing you have a ps4. "Baragamos" must be a foreign word for idiot, I'll spread the word so people know what their dealing with.
Ignore your instincts at your peril.
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2015.10.18 02:09:00 -
[59] - Quote
Devadander wrote:As a supplement to the #portdust514 movement, I'd like to start a count of people with ps4 already.
Putting it on pc ruins the dream they started, so please keep pc master race bs out of here.
So without further ado.
X up if you own a ps4. Edit: or will by Christmas.
I will own a PS4 slim as soon as it is released. I am waiting until then.
I would consider a standard PS4 if Dust made the jump tomorrow but that is a moot point atm. |
DEATH THE KlD
Imperfect - Bastards
546
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Posted - 2015.10.18 02:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bara when you learn to read then you can tell others to read..not once did someone ask about PC this thread was for ps4 users not for you to spread your QQ about a PC port..go make your own thread, one that doesn't say PS4
And yes I would love a PC port but a lot of PC players are toxic and think they're above everyone else which annoys me
CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF -Heimdallr69
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