to me it just seems like you are glorifying the notion of KD padding

you mentioned your kd of 9 or whatever, I might add that with everything you said it was pointless mentioning it other then to brag

one thing that should be considered when speaking of any vehicle is its role on the battlefield, you mentioned that they only serve to get some easy kills against typically bad players, however I assume you are taking this point from a solo tankers perspective

a tank is basically a mobile heavy artillery weapon, blasters you mentioned needed a damge buff, that however could simply not be further from wrong with it being the best anti infantry weapon available on such a platform

we can compare tanks to large blasters, with large blasters being static and easy targets but with a lot of HP, tanks on the other hand have mobility and a lot of it at that, something which is not very typical of tanks, now consider this you think rails are more powerful then blasters however blasters can do significantly more damge when used correctly to me it seems like you are only looking at it from armor tank v armor tank thus why you think missiles work just fine and you find blasters to be lacking compared to rails

there are many things wrong with your point of view its too narrow and not even taking the time to consider other options and opinions detracts from any argument that you can try to make

now hear me out I am not trying to take any credibility that you might have away but simply put you don't have the experience to even begin to discuss something as complex as vehicle infantry balance, this simply being due to the fact that you are just that an armor tanker and nothing more

mastering one skill doesn't matter much when the issue at hand deals with many more then one simple skill

you can have years and years of experience with armor tanks but that wont make you any good at infantry AV roles nor will it give you insight into what really goes on outside of your field

I would suggest for you to first meet up and talk to like minded individuals people that have mastered other roles and know the best tactics in their designated area, as well as getting feedback from those that have specced not only into tanks but other vehicles and related roles

when you talk about balance you need to realize that simply making only two things be fair against each other wont make it so that everything is on equal terms, one thing that you might consider is that AV infantry usually gives up a lot of self defense and relies on allies at times to keep them safe, simply having a squad mate that keeps an eye out and hunts down AV players gives your role higher sustainability in the battle field

now from a tanks perspective it may seem that AV is OP but you have to consider that you cant really compare it to regular infantry fire arms as those cant even scratch you making you fairly OP when there is no AV

now if you take a look at how much damge AV weapons do even the highest alpha possible even a lot of militia fits withstand a few hits

the thing is maps in dust are a bit small for general vehicle use and it wasn't supposed to be that way unfortunately it is so we have to make due with what we have till we can find a better solution

if multiple players pull out AV and focus it on you that should be something that keeps you at bay if not completely annihilates you

people seem to forget that supply depots and rep tools heal you back up if you are an armor tanker and shield tanks can use shiled boosters to stay in the field longer

tanks are not and should not be an easy mode KD padding device if I pull out proto AV fully fitted tank destroying suit I should be able to at least keep you on your toes and it shouldn't take 30% of a team to take you out even in full proto, it should be the same with std tanks vs proto 1 pro v 3 std should at least take significant damge but this is a lot of the time not the case when a pro tank can easily dispatch them one after another

here is something interesting that you might need to consider because you seem to have stated that you only run in the best possible fittings that you have available

tanks in std and adv variants as well as other vehicles get easily decimated by pro tanks and only when taking hits from multiple sources do they put out enough damge to make the proto tank back off just for a little till it comes right back in to destroy or even sit back in the redline with a pro rail killing anything before it gets too close

I would suggest for you to simply take a few steps back and remember or relearn where you come from if you think pro tanks are weak against AV then you need to remember just how much damge std tanks can take and relearn how to effectively use them rather then thinking you are invisible and shouldn't be taken out by squads of AV players


a lot of what I am saying may be a bit biased but considering that I use tanks on a fairly regular basis as well as have most of my caldari related skills at proto or close to, including swarms and FG as well as the complementary caldari suits I can see first hand how effective AV really is against vehicles and when it comes to pro tanks and even well fitted std and adv ones even with a proto breach FG and damge mods those buggers will simply retreat for a few seconds and be right back

mobility to me is the biggest issue with tanks the maps are too small and the engagement ranges are not favorable for either side

I would like to see tanks with more health and less speed but that is unlikely and would probably only serve to make matters worse

I find that the current system works well enough with what we have available and should not be tampered with too much as it may cause more problems then it seeks to solve

When people are talking down to mofo'ing Legend about tanking you know this game has no hope.

Almost totally agree, although AV being OP isn't one of them. If 4 people want to cut through a hardened tank, they should be able to.

I remember you and all you did was tank .

Are you playing or going to play again ?

It would be good to see someone with your knowledge and experience back on the ground again , you know your role doesn't get the attention or respect that it deserves and not too many even back HAV usage but promote bias against your role and I specialize in AV and I'm not afraid to admit that .

Many tankers have quit due to the blandness of the role and I just can't blame them .

The role of vehicle usage isn't clearly defined or promoted besides the role of pilots and even that has been reduced to what you yourself admit as another form of infantry farming but they simply will not admit it .

At least you have the balls to .

Maybe you and a lot of previous tankers that are still active can come together and finally help bring definition to the role of HAV usage because their words have been falling on deaf ears for sometime now , which lead to those who have returned to leave once again and some to just play the " forum warrior " role trying to advocate for vehicle balance .



Good luck in your efforts because I would love for every role in the game to have balance as well as the game it's self .

If you haven't played , you should because a lot has changed and a lot has remained the same or gotten worse , this game needs all the help it can get to make it the best that it can possibly be .

You're right, AV is not OP if the tank has more base health. The issue is the price of the tanks VS the price of the AV that can destroy them. There Also is not nearly enough benefit for the use of a proto tank that justifys its pricing.

Tank pricing is completely absurd for what you get. Worst value in the game for your ISK.

Beyond that, I've been playing with shield tanks almost exclusively lately, and they aren't that bad. If you rolled around with CNN like in the old days you would be mopping people up.

It's funny that you posted this when just yesterday I was talking about the MHPD and how those matches were entertaining in part because we got to tank together.

I miss team tanking. PC fights were there were two battles going on. You versus the infantry, me versus the tanks that would come down to get you.

Even tanking back when we all were forced to run the one fit was better than it is now.

So lets talk price.

I would be groovin with a tank that cost me 600k fit. Still double a standard match payout for a decent performance, but much more manageable for people who don't suck, without being so cheap they become cost effective to spam.

PRO tank cost 1.2 mill full proto with small turents, and I can spam them all day long anyvay,..
so price really dosent matter..

But I agree with base HP increased, 4000 armor on maddy and 3500 shield on gunny but only for proto hulls
and bringing back active armor reps.

My 2 cents

My efforts will more than likely be wasted, however thank you. I recall the time where CCP said they were buffing tanks and killed the meta that made tank VS tank exciting and made the tanks weaker. CCP created a ****** idea for tanking and has spent too much time trying to make it work. Despite that, I've felt compelled to post something on tankings current state...

You're right, AV is not OP if the tank has more base health. The issue is the price of the tanks VS the price of the AV that can destroy them. There Also is not nearly enough benefit for the use of a proto tank that justifys its pricing.

To me vehicle use was far more exciting pre 1.6 , all they had to do was approach the scenario like their trying to do now with little changes but they took the best features out which was the skill tree and the mechanics of the mods themselves .

You already had the vehicles with Logistic Dropships and LAV's , granted they might have needed a few changes but that's just what they just did with the latest hotfix but I guess some live and they learn , it just seems like too many times CCP takes two steps forward , only to take two and sometimes three steps back which leads and perpetuates the nerf / buff cycles that have prevailed over the game for sometime now .

I knew once they changed the skill tree with it's attributes , that it would be a tough road ahead .

To me the previous vehicle sill tree was the most balanced and when invested , you could actually see what you've spent your SP's on and what for but that's neither here nor there now .

Prices weren't cheap but you actually felt it was worth it given the circumstances , all that was needed was a tweaking here and there in some AV areas , I believe that it would have been better now given the creativity of the community with Jihad Jeeps and using proxies more and also with the introduction of packed remotes as well as the changes made to PLC's and MD's along with the Assault HMG's .

To me , it would have been far better then it is now if the wouldn't have panicked and tore the whole structure down to rebuild but that might have been the only way that they felt they could deal with the issues , sometimes this community can steer one away from the real issues and lead some in many different directions far away from the core factor ( The development team wasn't as active as they are now or rather not like Rattati is now and I could tell in the forums that they were getting flustered , irritated and confused because it seems that they had a vision and things were not falling into place so that vision could be achieved ) , I just think that was one of those cases and the whole role suffered because of that .

Tanks still seem to do OK but the pricing is ridiculous. It breaks the game to make a proto tank unkillable 2 out of 3 matches but it isn't financially viable to tank unless they are. My two suggestions are to bring the price of well fitted vehicles way down and stop allowing suit switching at supply depots. If a team wants to run an AV squad they should be forced to run an AV squad not just be able to have half the team switch back and forth. The worst part is, when a team really needs a tank it is to get a dominating team off a point, but when they also have a supply depot this is next to impossible. Tank vs AV is not bad right now, in tweaking range if these two simple things change.

Stop allowing suit switching at supply depots.

I just don't know bout this and while it seems like a problem , it's one of the best things about this game that goes unsaid .

I can start the game as a scout and zerg a null , get a hack , lay links and then move to a depot and switch to a logistic player and lay more links in a dropship or switch to a commando and lay in the weeds so to speak and wait until their scout comes to hack and do what I just did in an attempt to hold the line until re-enforcements come keeping my links alive for the time being until I spot a blob moving to my area and switch to a heavy to enforce that same area .

Yeah it might seem like a problem but it doesn't lock one to a specific role for the match or until I die and that's what's different about this game over all the others , the little subtle things that one can do to help the team even more so when your on a team of lesser players and the team your facing is far better then yours .

I believe switching at the depot allows one who is skilled to be able to help those who are less skilled then you yourself even more so when one runs solo .

Against these organized squads , sometimes you need all the help you can get because matchmaking is null and void .

While it might be a problem for some , it's one of the best features of the game to me and allows those that are willing to fight when odds are stacked against them to do so .

Tank pricing is completely absurd for what you get. Worst value in the game for your ISK.

Beyond that, I've been playing with shield tanks almost exclusively lately, and they aren't that bad. If you rolled around with CNN like in the old days you would be mopping people up.

It's funny that you posted this when just yesterday I was talking about the MHPD and how those matches were entertaining in part because we got to tank together.

I miss team tanking. PC fights were there were two battles going on. You versus the infantry, me versus the tanks that would come down to get you.

Even tanking back when we all were forced to run the one fit was better than it is now.

Now you just field one tank per side just for lolz. Would hardly notice if we fielded no tanks.

It's all about that pub balancing though, those are most important. #sarcasm

40 mill sp only? And how many things do you destroy in a tank per battle? I've made 10 mill sp in the past 2 months alone, it's been years since beta, and when I tank I make 1500 wp almost every battle from blowing everything up. So I do not understand how you only have 40 mill sp.... and shield tanking is still easy as ever before........ I also have not spent a dime on this game to boost sp

I like it

I am a tanking veteren and nothing else. I got into this game in the beta and played some heavy for a couple weeks. The first time my sp was reset in the beta I skilled into tanks. I have done NOTHING but tank since I decided to start tanking in the beta. When I mean I did nothing else, I mean that in the most extreme terms. I was able to make a profit in tanking early on in my career and deployed my best tank in every single battle.

Eventually, when price changes and updates made proto tanking risky I was fully funded by teamplayers and allowed to drop proto (or my strongest tank in times before proto). I have about 50,000 kills in dust514. 50k is not much compared to some of the top players but nearly all of these kills were in tanking. I haven't had a proto suit just up until a month or two ago (I have 40 mil sp). I never did anything but screw around with infantry skills.

While I was tanking (blaster) I maintained a 9 point kdr and was apart of hundreds of PC matches in teamplayers. I played some really great teams while they were in their prime and was top of the scoreboard in a blaster tank. My qualifications for opinions on tanking are very deep.

Opinion (Tanks vs AV): Tanks in general are a waste of time. They are not profitable and they are nothing more then something to grab some easy kills with here and there against noobs. However overall the tanks surviability is weak! The reason the tank is so weak is because of the low health. With a well set up tank performance against decent AV is lacking. AV is simply too potent against even the most well fitted tanks. I believe the hardners and the Repping units available are not too bad for tankers, however the amount of health available to a tank is too low.

Increasing the base health to the tank would still make tanks very easy targets for AV when the hardners are cooling down. It would also allow multiple units of AV to destroy a tank while hardened or atleast send it running. Doing this does not make the tank able to withstand more AV only withstand it longer. By increasing the health of the tank you allow skill to become a more important factor. With increased health tanks while hardened would not get insta popped by a suprise of AV! I believe a well formulated suprise with great AV should kill unhardened tanks but simply send the hardened ones retreating!

Opinion (Rail VS Blaster): Blaster damage needs to be increased tank vs tank! Currently a rail tank can just roll up to a blaster tank, engage in a close combat fight, and win! The blaster tanks damage VS a rail fitting is so weak that even if the blaster tank gets the jump the rail can still come out on top (in close combat).

Blaster damage vs tanks needs to be increased so that strategical flanking is rewarded! This will also make the rail tank have to surprise the enemy OR use distance to its advantage.

This is what makes tank vs tank FUN! Flanking and activation of modules becomes more important with the ability of blasters to kill or be a threat up close to rails! OF COURSE this only is relevant when AV is not so destructive.

Opinion (proto vs advanced): if you get tanking skill to a high enough level you will see that you hardly benefit running proto. The difference between my advanced and my proto is an additional proto scanner and 20 health per rep !!! The price of proto is ridiculous and the benefits are so small. This needs to be changed...

Opinion (shield tanking): It hasn't been relavent in forever not even worth my time discussing...

Opinion (missle turrets): they are fine

Overall conclusion: increase base health of all tanks by 1000-2000, Increase blaster damage vs tanks, improve benefits of proto, reduce price of tanking or weaken all AV vs tanks in general

And what about the heat build up per second? I think it's too much, even with complex heat sink :/ glad to see you back

Honestly, I feel tank health could and probably should go up but I believe speed should go down. Seeing plated / heavily armoured tanks zoom off like sportscars (literally) when they get in a tricky position is not a good thing.

Same problem for swarms and ADS - ADS Vs Forge or PLC = a fight. ADS vs Swarms = ADS must run. Same thing with tanks.... a lot of them just hit speed boosts and run.

Would we not all rather have slightly more lengthy battles like in EVE. Watching the health bounce up and down never knowing who is going to win the fight? Logistics jumping in to help repair the tank, infantry having time to get to the location where the tanks are to help cover against AV.

I'm thinking tanks should be slow, position should be a big thing but they need to be more tanky to make up for the lack of speed.

This could actually make the breach acceptable as an av choice. Right now it's rof is too low to do an appreciable amount of damage before the tank gets out of range.

You're right, AV is not OP if the tank has more base health. The issue is the price of the tanks VS the price of the AV that can destroy them. There Also is not nearly enough benefit for the use of a proto tank that justifys its pricing.

Tanking in pre 1.7 was such a rush. I'm not talking trying to fight infantry but fighting another tank felt like chess rather than run and gun. You also don't get passive skills that aide you to promote a use of proto tanks.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that tanks are KDR padders. Only a blaster could adequately do that, you still have missiles and railguns which I assure you will not help you pad. As if there aren't infantry that play to pad. Sorry for possibly going off topic but many play styles are guilty.