DUST Search - [SUGGESTION] Assault/Commando Bonus and Slot Changes

zzZaXxx wrote:

Assaults don't need much, but since Cal/Gal have three bonuses now Min/Amr should too, with all bonus affecting light weapons and sidearms. So I suggest the following additions:

Caldari Assault:
Make the kick bonus affect sidearms

Minmatar Assault:
-5% hipfire dispersion of all projectile light weapons and sidearms

Gallente Assault:
Make the ROF bonus affect sidearms

Amarr Assault:
+5% cooldown speed for all laser light weapons

+5% clip size for all laser sidearms

The only other change they need is to HP recovery. Cal/Min shield recharge gets better going from sentinel to scout, with armor reps getting worse, Gal/Amr armor repair should get better going from sentinel to scout, with shield recharge getting worse. The changes for Gal/Amr from hotfix numbers reflects this. (Starting from Amarr Scout having 9 HP/sec armor reps and the worst shield recharge of any suit)

And all suits have more armor rep than currently because that's needed to balance with the shield recharge buffs.

Caldari Assault:
Shield Recharge - 40
Recharge Delay - 3.5
Depleted Delay - 2
Armor Repair - 2

Minmatar Assault:
Shield Recharge - 35
Recharge Delay - 4
Depleted Delay - 3
Armor Repair - 4

Gallente Assault:
Shield Recharge - 25
Recharge Delay - 4.5
Depleted Delay - 4
Armor Repair - 6

Amarr Assault:
Shield Recharge - 20
Recharge Delay - 5
Depleted Delay - 5
Armor Repair - 8

Commandos need more HP--or better yet the choice for more HP or something else--so they should get an extra slot. Their movement speed could be slightly nerfed to balance it out, but they need more HP to go with their big hitbox.

Every class has a fitting bonus except for commandos so add the following for all commandos:

-5% fitting cost of light weapons

This bonus can be factored into how much PG/CPU is added for the extra slot.

When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.

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zzZaXxx XxAMBUSH FTWxX 811	Posted - 2015.10.01 19:54:00 - [1] - Quote Assaults don't need much, but since Cal/Gal have three bonuses now Min/Amr should too, with all bonus affecting light weapons and sidearms. So I suggest the following additions: Caldari Assault: Make the kick bonus affect sidearms Minmatar Assault: -5% hipfire dispersion of all projectile light weapons and sidearms Gallente Assault: Make the ROF bonus affect sidearms Amarr Assault: +5% cooldown speed for all laser light weapons +5% clip size for all laser sidearms The only other change they need is to HP recovery. Cal/Min shield recharge gets better going from sentinel to scout, with armor reps getting worse, Gal/Amr armor repair should get better going from sentinel to scout, with shield recharge getting worse. The changes for Gal/Amr from hotfix numbers reflects this. (Starting from Amarr Scout having 9 HP/sec armor reps and the worst shield recharge of any suit) And all suits have more armor rep than currently because that's needed to balance with the shield recharge buffs. Caldari Assault: Shield Recharge - 40 Recharge Delay - 3.5 Depleted Delay - 2 Armor Repair - 2 Minmatar Assault: Shield Recharge - 35 Recharge Delay - 4 Depleted Delay - 3 Armor Repair - 4 Gallente Assault: Shield Recharge - 30 Recharge Delay - 4.5 Depleted Delay - 4 Armor Repair - 6 Amarr Assault: Shield Recharge - 25 Recharge Delay - 5 Depleted Delay - 5 Armor Repair - 7 Commandos need more HP--or better yet the choice for more HP or something else--so they should get an extra slot. Their movement speed could be slightly nerfed to balance it out, but they need more HP to go with their big hitbox. Every class has a fitting bonus except for commandos so add the following for all commandos: -5% fitting cost of light weapons This bonus can be factored into how much PG/CPU is added for the extra slot.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.10.01 20:17:00 - [2] - Quote Didnt we like...give Commandos more speed and an extra slot (effectively more HP) in the last update? "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
zzZaXxx XxAMBUSH FTWxX 811	Posted - 2015.10.01 20:21:00 - [3] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Didnt we like...give Commandos more speed and an extra slot (effectively more HP) in the last update? Yeah but that was just to make them halfway viable. They're not done.
Jakkal Shoobah Eastern Star Recon Group 270	Posted - 2015.10.01 20:46:00 - [4] - Quote Commandos were put in the correct spot on the ehp speed curve if I remember. They also had 4 slots. Before tiericide a basic assault or logo had as many slots as a proto commando. Assaults should be even but I think we should see how the hotfix plays out before buffing/nerfing. Ps Min assaults don't need hipfire bonu. Min are burst dps kings famous for shitting out explosives and and bullets when cornered. Extra clip size already accomplishes that. Thats a gallente thing to assert their cqc dominance.Gal weapons need reduced dispersion to be competitive cqc. Have you ever seen an ion pistol without sharpshooter on anything besides a gal assault ? Ita a shotty that only fires one pellet . While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
zzZaXxx XxAMBUSH FTWxX 811	Posted - 2015.10.01 20:52:00 - [5] - Quote Jakkal Shoobah wrote: Commandos were put in the correct spot on the ehp speed curve if I remember. They also had 4 slots. Before tiericide a basic assault or logo had as many slots as a proto commando. Assaults should be even but I think we should see how the hotfix plays out before buffing/nerfing. Ps Min assaults don't need hipfire bonu. Min are burst dps kings famous for shitting out explosives and and bullets when cornered. Extra clip size already accomplishes that. Thats a gallente thing to assert their cqc dominance.Gal weapons need reduced dispersion to be competitive cqc. Have you ever seen an ion pistol without sharpshooter on anything besides a gal assault ? Ita a shotty that only fires one pellet . They're in the correct spot in the EHP curve but their large hitbox scews that a lot. They need an HP buff to balance that.
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations 812	Posted - 2015.10.01 22:45:00 - [6] - Quote So, just like with your Scout idea, your giving Amarr both highest armour and best rep rates, when best reps should be Gallente. Why should Amarr have the best native reps if that's the Gallente's speciality? Purifier. First Class.
Dingleburt Bangledack Dingle's Berry Farms 420	Posted - 2015.10.02 00:57:00 - [7] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: So, just like with your Scout idea, your giving Amarr both highest armour and best rep rates, when best reps should be Gallente. Why should Amarr have the best native reps if that's the Gallente's speciality? I may not like Gallente all that much, but this is correct. I'd love my Amarr suits to have great innate armor reps, but that's the Gallente's thing. The Amarr already have the buffer.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 16	Posted - 2015.10.02 01:47:00 - [8] - Quote Can't imagine that buffing Assaults would be good for balance.
zzZaXxx XxAMBUSH FTWxX 811	Posted - 2015.10.02 04:39:00 - [9] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: So, just like with your Scout idea, your giving Amarr both highest armour and best rep rates, when best reps should be Gallente. Why should Amarr have the best native reps if that's the Gallente's speciality? I may not like Gallente all that much, but this is correct. I'd love my Amarr suits to have great innate armor reps, but that's the Gallente's thing. The Amarr already have the buffer. The trade for more HP is less speed. So they're even. Then Gallente gets a bit more shield regen and better delay, so Amarr gets a bit more armor rep. Even Steven.
zzZaXxx XxAMBUSH FTWxX 811	Posted - 2015.10.02 04:45:00 - [10] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Can't imagine that buffing Assaults would be good for balance. I posted something about a buff for scouts and then commandos get pumped up too. In my fantasy world logis also get better and more equipment bonuses and sentinels get better shield recharge and/or armor rep. It all evens out.

DEATH THE KlD Imperfect - Bastards 434	Posted - 2015.10.03 21:07:00 - [11] - Quote Why would Amarr have better repair than gal? Gal is Reps not Amarr
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 264	Posted - 2015.10.04 04:02:00 - [12] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Assaults don't need much, but since Cal/Gal have three bonuses now Min/Amr should too, with all bonus affecting light weapons and sidearms. So I suggest the following additions: Caldari Assault: Make the kick bonus affect sidearms Minmatar Assault: -5% hipfire dispersion of all projectile light weapons and sidearms Gallente Assault: Make the ROF bonus affect sidearms Amarr Assault: +5% cooldown speed for all laser light weapons +5% clip size for all laser sidearms The only other change they need is to HP recovery. Cal/Min shield recharge gets better going from sentinel to scout, with armor reps getting worse, Gal/Amr armor repair should get better going from sentinel to scout, with shield recharge getting worse. The changes for Gal/Amr from hotfix numbers reflects this. (Starting from Amarr Scout having 9 HP/sec armor reps and the worst shield recharge of any suit) And all suits have more armor rep than currently because that's needed to balance with the shield recharge buffs. Caldari Assault: Shield Recharge - 40 Recharge Delay - 3.5 Depleted Delay - 2 Armor Repair - 2 Minmatar Assault: Shield Recharge - 35 Recharge Delay - 4 Depleted Delay - 3 Armor Repair - 4 Gallente Assault: Shield Recharge - 25 Recharge Delay - 4.5 Depleted Delay - 4 Armor Repair - 6 Amarr Assault: Shield Recharge - 20 Recharge Delay - 5 Depleted Delay - 5 Armor Repair - 8 Commandos need more HP--or better yet the choice for more HP or something else--so they should get an extra slot. Their movement speed could be slightly nerfed to balance it out, but they need more HP to go with their big hitbox. Every class has a fitting bonus except for commandos so add the following for all commandos: -5% fitting cost of light weapons This bonus can be factored into how much PG/CPU is added for the extra slot. Okay, I'm just gonna say.... No, this is one of those types of idea's that only see's 1 inevitable king, which the rest of the commentator's has seen. Your bonus' don't correlate or balance out the fact that certain weapon's are either unmanageable without a specific suit, or just down right under powered without them ( all AR and SCR, and CR variant's). I'd rather said bonus' effect all the weapon's that fit the category, giving them more diverse leeway, and being more flexible in fitting capabilities, as they should be. I understand your an armor player, but if you want to have ungodly armor rep's, pick up a rattati's GK.0, slap a couple of armor repairers and armor plate's, you'll get the feeling Caldari once had in closed beta. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.04 06:30:00 - [13] - Quote I think I'm just going to respond to this line by line. (snip) since Cal/Gal have three bonuses now Min/Amr should too This is only the case, even in theory if the bonuses cause the two suits in qustion to overperform with their racial weapons rather than grossly underperform as they have been. Amarr and minmatar both enjoy some very powerful bonuses that are not matched by the gallente or caldari suits. If the two new bonuses bring parity to the ones with two, they should be left alone. THe bonuses are to bring balance to the assaults, not to assault someone's sense of symmetry. Caldari Assault: Make the kick bonus affect sidearms There is only one sidearm this would meaningfully affect. It's intended for the rail rifle, not all weapons on the rail scale. Commandos have the universal bonuses to light weapons. Minmatar Assault: -5% hipfire dispersion of all projectile light weapons and sidearms Last I checked, the Minassault is one of the best-performing dropsuits in DUST 514. It assuredly does not need a buff, especially not for symmetry alone. Gallente Assault: Make the ROF bonus affect sidearms Again, the bonus is to the assault rifle line ONLY, not to any other plasma weapon. Adding sidearms to the bonus serves little to no purpose as sidearms are already powerful, and are intended as backup weapons on assault suits, not main line of attack. Amarr Assault: +5% cooldown speed for all laser light weapons The amarr assault laser synergy is already phenomenal. It is also the most heavily tankable assault suit in the game and one of the historical solid performers in DUST. Increasing that synergy with laser weapons WILL unbalance the suit from the other assaults. +5% clip size for all laser sidearms Why? And why do you propose adding TWO bonuses to the amarr assault in order to "match" the racial rifles on the gal/cal? This is power creep, pure and simple. The bonuses to gal and cal were to make the suits desirable platforms for the use of their racial rifles, something they have failed miserably at save in the case of a few outliers. The only other change they need is to HP recovery. Cal/Min shield recharge gets better going from sentinel to scout, with armor reps getting worse, Gal/Amr armor repair should get better going from sentinel to scout, with shield recharge getting worse. The changes for Gal/Amr from hotfix numbers reflects this. (Starting from Amarr Scout having 9 HP/sec armor reps and the worst shield recharge of any suit) There is absolutely no context I can think of where this isn't a "huh???" moment for me. And all suits have more armor rep than currently because that's needed to balance with the shield recharge buffs. Absolutely bad premise. Armor has been outperforming shields, PERIOD, for the better part of a year. The shield buffs are to bring shields up to the level of armor, not to give an excuse to buff armor again. So, no, armor suits are absolutely NOT on the table for a buff at this time in regards to armor survivability. This is unlikely to change at any time in the near (and likely far) future. Caldari Assault: Shield Recharge - 40 Recharge Delay - 3.5 Depleted Delay - 2 Armor Repair - 2 Minmatar Assault: Shield Recharge - 35 Recharge Delay - 4 Depleted Delay - 3 Armor Repair - 4 Gallente Assault: Shield Recharge - 25 Recharge Delay - 4.5 Depleted Delay - 4 Armor Repair - 6 Amarr Assault: Shield Recharge - 20 Recharge Delay - 5 Depleted Delay - 5 Armor Repair - 8 Ummm, yeah sorry, not likely to happen. Amarr are the armor buffer race, the ones with the highest HP, and gallente are supposed to be the armor repair race. There is no universe where giving the highest HP armor suits the best rep rates possible is going to end well for balance. Commandos need more HP (snip) You do realize the HP of a no-module Commando is as high as a fully and appropriately tanked assault suit, and only goes up from there? Commandos are not in need of sentinel base HP. Every class has a fitting bonus except for commandos so add the following for all commandos: -5% fitting cost of light weapons So far this is the ONLY kind of thing that MIGHT happen. But that's something Rattati is looking at for part of his prep for power cores in the deep, dark future. So it's unlikely that this is going to simply turn out the way you describe here. This bonus can be factored into how much PG/CPU is added for the extra slot. This is bereft of meaningful context for me. You'll need to elaborate here. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.10.04 07:48:00 - [14] - Quote https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yzhnQ-Vasl1u6fL-MB6xXw4LLrJeTWj-XVXWZWWhQRo/edit?usp=sharing I added Assaults as well as the OP's proposal to my regen tool. As others have state, this would immediately push the Amarr Assault to having both superior base HP and regen over the other suits. Performance of course changes based off of fit which you can test out with the tool if you so choose. Keep in mind that total regen assumes Depleted Shield Delay with <1 HP Armor and 0HP shield and tracks up to 100% of both. Also % Total values average in the recharge delay so it's not 100% accurate but close enough for our purposes. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
zzZaXxx XxAMBUSH FTWxX 818	Posted - 2015.10.08 04:04:00 - [15] - Quote Ok forget bonus changes to assaults. Some new ones are being added soon and we have to wait and see how that affects overall balance. Same thing goes for passive reps, though I'm predicting the next hotfix will need to address them. I have a nagging issue about the Gallente Assault. Gallente and Amarr having basically the same shield stats is fine. Gallente has a bit more speed and armor rep and Amarr has more buffer. They should have the same base shields then. Both at 180 and increase Gallente's armor. This should really be across the board with all Gallente suits having the same shields as Amarr and getting an armor buff. If not, and they continue to have more shields than Amarr, then that's a statement that shields are emphasized to some extent on Gallente. Therefore Gallente should have better shield recovery. Having all that HP trapped behind long delays with a slow recharge is a handicap, to go with the AR range handicap. If they're keeping their current shields then increase shield recharge by 5 and delay by 0.5, for 25, 5, 4. Then just reduce Amarr's delay by 0.5 for 20, 5.5, 5. Honestly though I think Gallente should be poised to dabble in shields, just as Min dabbles in armor still but is now clearly shield based. It would be perfect for their style, helping against grenades and combat rifles, giving them more HP with no speed penalty, and encouraging them to duck and weave a bit more. 30 - Shield Recharge 5 - Delay 4 - Depleted Delay This would give Gallente a shield secondary focus. Any advantage it gives Gallente is mitigated by them only having three high slots. Then Amarr keeps all it's current stats but gets a bit more passive reps. Just +2. As for passive reps in general, we'll see. Let's compare the numbers of a Cal Assault and an Amarr Assault, post hotfix (both are the best loadouts for them in my opinion): Here's the Caldari Assault: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/1549/8978 (pre-hotfix numbers) 455 - Shields 92 - Shield Recharge 2.1 - Shield Recharge Delay 1.2 - Depleted Recharge Delay 326 - Armor 7.5 - Armor Repair (40 - Allotek Nanohive) 4.85 - Movement 7.2 - Sprint +4% Light Weapon Damage +4% Sidearm Damage Proto Rail Rifle (-25% recoil, -25% reload time) Proto Magsec (-25% reload time) M-1 Locus Grenade (same as Core with 10% less splash radius) Allotek Nanohive And here's the Amarr Assault: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/1549/7204 (pre-hotfix numbers) 181 - Shields 20 - Shield Recharge 6 - Shield Recharge Delay 5 - Depleted Recharge Delay 723 - Armor 17 - Armor Repair (40 - Allotek Nanohive) 4.5 - Movement 6.7 - Sprint +15% Light Weapon Damage +8% Sidearm Damage Proto Scrambler Rifle (-25% heat buildup) Proto Magsec Core Locus Grenade Allotek Nanohive Either one have a clear advantage overall? The Cal Assault seems to since it gets all its 455 shields back 6.2 seconds after depletion. But the power of an Amarr Assault with 700+ armor and an Allotek or two is not to be sniffed at, especially on maps where he can easily re-up at supply depots and therefore spam them as much as he likes. The Amarr Assault is also doing 11% more light weapon damage and 4% more sidearm damage. But man that 455 shields in 6 seconds after getting into armor....that's beast. But we'll have to see. As for commandos, the light weapon fitting bonus (-25% fitting cost of light weapons at level 5) just makes sense. Commandos can't fit all complex mods even with cheap equipment like a stable scanner, much less with proto equipment. Heck a proto Caldari Commando with a proto rail rifle, an advanced assault rail rifle and a stable scanner can't even fit all complex mods! That's just not right and this bonus is the answer. Here's the Calmando I was talking about: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/1549/9044 I win


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