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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
811
   |
Posted - 2015.10.01 16:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I advocate for the following changes to scouts because
a) scouts' EWAR bonuses should be normalized for balance
b) scouts should be sidearm specialists. A bonus to racial sidearms will help them to be more effective and versatile in CQC. Plus it encourages them to use their own racial sidearm, which helps create overall balance and parity (and the game's funner, cooler, and more of a chess match/battle of wits when racial suits and weapons are combined more often). Knives should be an option for all scouts so all are given a charge bonus.
c) an extra slot--but with only half the commensurate fittings increase-- gives scouts needful options, to slightly increase their HP, HP recovery, speed, or damage, or to improve their EWAR.
The extra slot also creates a situation where they can fit a complex mod there if they run two sidearms.
d) scouts need to have HP recovery that is clearly superior to assaults. Cal/Min need slightly better shield recharge than hotfix numbers, and Gal/Amm need much better armor repair.
Caldari-
Class level bonuses:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+8% scan radius
-3% scan precision
-5% hybrid rail sidearm kick (Increases Bolt Pistol ROF by reducing kick animation, but much less than 25% due to factoring in charge time)
-10% nova knife charge time
Minmatar-
Class level bonuses:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+5% scan radius
-5% scan profile
+5% projectile/explosive sidearm clip size
-10% nova knife charge time
Gallente-
Class level bonuses:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+8% scan radius
-3% scan profile
+3% hybrid blaster sidearm ROF
-10% nova knife charge time
Amarr-
Class level bonuses:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+5% scan radius
-5% scan precision
+2% laser sidearm range
-10% nova knife charge time
All scouts:
Add a module slot, but only add enough PG/CPU for an advanced mod
Stats:
Caldari-
Shield Recharge: 55
Recharge Delay: 2.5
Depleted Delay: 3
Armor Repair: 1
Minmatar-
Shield Recharge: 50
Recharge Delay: 3
Depleted Delay: 4
Armor Repair: 3
Gallente-
Shield Recharge: 20
Recharge Delay: 5.5
Depleted Delay: 5
Armor Repair: 8
Amarr-
Shield Recharge: 15
Recharge Delay: 6
Depleted Delay: 6
Armor Repair: 9
Shield recharge gets better from sentinal to scout on Cal/Min, while armor rep gets worse. Armor repair should get better from sentinal to scout on Gal/Amm, with shield recharge getting worse.
That's it! Thoughts? |
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
957
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 16:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't you think 5 bonuses are a bit much? Also why is amarr rep higher than gallente?
Wanna play eve?
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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
811
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 17:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Don't you think 5 bonuses are a bit much? Also why is amarr rep higher than gallente?
I don't think it's too much. You've got the cloak bonus, normalized EWAR bonuses, and add a sidearm bonus. The knife bonus is just to encourage scouts to use knives but it could be taken out.
Amarr have slightly better reps than Gallente because Gallente have slightly better shield recharge than Amarr. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2015.10.03 23:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
As a seasoned scout, I'm not even sure about this. The Nova Knife charge time bonus for all suits is a nice idea, but I am not sure about the rest.
Also, your idea is starting to sound a lot like a discreet attempt at making scouts sidearm only. Not that I am accusing you of such or anything like that. I'm just noting an observation here. In case anyone does bring up that idea again, I will gladly show them my large stockpile of 'Black Eagle' Assault Rifles.
Eve Online Invite
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zzZaXxx
Capital Acquisitions LLC
815
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 20:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:As a seasoned scout, I'm not even sure about this. The Nova Knife charge time bonus for all suits is a nice idea, but I am not sure about the rest.
Also, your idea is starting to sound a lot like a discreet attempt at making scouts sidearm only. Not that I am accusing you of such or anything like that. I'm just noting an observation here. In case anyone does bring up that idea again, I will gladly show them my large stockpile of 'Black Eagle' Assault Rifles.
No no 2 sidearms would just give you the fittings relief to make that extra module complex, with maybe a little left over. But yeah 2 sidearms is crazy even with these bonuses.
Well what's wrong with the normalized scan bonuses? Everyone gets more range, one scout can be undetectable, one can detect almost anything--but both with nerfed range--whereas the other two are in the middle with more range. Seems well balanced to me.
Then the sidearm bonus helps them pack a bit more punch, but you can only dominate so much with a sidearm so it'll be fairly tame. A better sidearm helps defensively as a last line of defense or offensively as a quick alpha option in CQC, rewarding scouts for being able to get that close. But once they've got the initiative and strike, the sidearm bonus isnt gonna make sidearms better than a light weapon in that situation, so it factors in only as a maybe equal option, and then just gives them a few more choices for staying alive and finishing up close.
I think it's a good way to give scouts a little edge on assaults to tip the scales just a bit in a way that adds a lot to the character and style of each suit. And the knife bonus just gives that a nudge. |
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
397
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 02:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
How about scan profile not being a hard n fast "if I'm under, I'm not seen" and make it a matter of probability, "if I'm far under, I'm far less likely to be seen"
Sidearm bonus +1 tho... It would be nice to see that
How about scout a and scout b where 'A' has no light weapon, but a stats increase and maybe a few more slots. Where scout B could be the current scout but with slightly weaker stats? Supports the sidearm bonus i guess.
Just adding my 2 isk.
Forever ADS. Best role.
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CHET CHEWS
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
187
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 02:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:How about scan profile not being a hard n fast "if I'm under, I'm not seen" and make it a matter of probability, "if I'm far under, I'm far less likely to be seen"
Sidearm bonus +1 tho... It would be nice to see that
How about scout a and scout b where 'A' has no light weapon, but a stats increase and maybe a few more slots. Where scout B could be the current scout but with slightly weaker stats? Supports the sidearm bonus i guess.
Just adding my 2 isk.
Hai Shamarski 
"I wuv u senpai cause you so caguay"- {CHET CHEWS TO: CCP RATATI}
420 blaz3 !t G3t r3Kt m8, faking scerb.
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Anmol Singh
G0DS AM0NG MEN
982
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 02:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:I advocate for the following changes to scouts because
a) scouts' EWAR bonuses should be normalized for balance
b) scouts should be sidearm specialists. A bonus to racial sidearms will help them to be more effective and versatile in CQC. Plus it encourages them to use their own racial sidearm, which helps create overall balance and parity (and the game's funner, cooler, and more of a chess match/battle of wits when racial suits and weapons are combined more often). Knives should be an option for all scouts so all are given a charge bonus.
c) an extra slot--but with only half the commensurate fittings increase-- gives scouts needful options, to slightly increase their HP, HP recovery, speed, or damage, or to improve their EWAR.
The extra slot also creates a situation where they can fit a complex mod there if they run two sidearms.
d) scouts need to have HP recovery that is clearly superior to assaults. Cal/Min need slightly better shield recharge than hotfix numbers, and Gal/Amm need much better armor repair.
Caldari-
Class level bonuses:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+8% scan radius
-3% scan precision
-5% hybrid rail sidearm kick (Increases Bolt Pistol ROF by reducing kick animation, but much less than 25% due to factoring in charge time)
-10% nova knife charge time
Minmatar-
Class level bonuses:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+5% scan radius
-5% scan profile
+5% projectile/explosive sidearm clip size
-10% nova knife charge time
Gallente-
Class level bonuses:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+8% scan radius
-3% scan profile
+3% hybrid blaster sidearm ROF
-10% nova knife charge time
Amarr-
Class level bonuses:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+5% scan radius
-5% scan precision
+2% laser sidearm range
-10% nova knife charge time
All scouts:
Add a module slot, but only add enough PG/CPU for an advanced mod
Stats:
Caldari-
Shield Recharge: 55
Recharge Delay: 2.5
Depleted Delay: 3
Armor Repair: 1
Minmatar-
Shield Recharge: 50
Recharge Delay: 3
Depleted Delay: 4
Armor Repair: 3
Gallente-
Shield Recharge: 20
Recharge Delay: 5.5
Depleted Delay: 5
Armor Repair: 8
Amarr-
Shield Recharge: 15
Recharge Delay: 6
Depleted Delay: 6
Armor Repair: 9
Shield recharge gets better from sentinal to scout on Cal/Min, while armor rep gets worse. Armor repair should get better from sentinal to scout on Gal/Amm, with shield recharge getting worse.
That's it! Thoughts?
I hate the idea as a whole. There is no need for any of this.
Sagaris lover!!!
Commando <3
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
397
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 03:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
CHET CHEWS wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:How about scan profile not being a hard n fast "if I'm under, I'm not seen" and make it a matter of probability, "if I'm far under, I'm far less likely to be seen"
Sidearm bonus +1 tho... It would be nice to see that
How about scout a and scout b where 'A' has no light weapon, but a stats increase and maybe a few more slots. Where scout B could be the current scout but with slightly weaker stats? Supports the sidearm bonus i guess.
Just adding my 2 isk. Hai Shamarski
Hai Chet 
Forever ADS. Best role.
|
el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 07:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Is this, like this, neccessary really?
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Ama Zarek
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
23
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Posted - 2015.10.05 11:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
NO.
All that stuff should be skill based. |
zzZaXxx
Capital Acquisitions LLC
816
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 20:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ok....... What do scouts need? Do they need to be better able to stand and trade fire with assaults? No, that should be their weakness....BUT they do need a) a better sidearm for backup when cornered and running shotgun but forced to engage out of shotgun range, b) a better sidearm to give them more of an advantage (and more options) when attacking with the initiative in close-mid range without a shotgun, and c) a better sidearm for quick alpha when desperately trying to survive a disadvantageous close encounter.
This can be accomplished by a scout bonus focused on racial pistols. So let's change the sidearm bonuses to the following:
Amarr: +2% laser sidearm range
Gallente: +3% hybrid blaster sidearm ROF
Minmatar: +5% explosive sidearm clip size
Caldari: -4% hybrid rail sidearm charge time
For example...
An Amarr Scout can strip shields/go for the headshot with a Scrambler Pistol and finish, if needed, with ACR. The range bonus puts the SP's optimal at 34 (from 31) and effective at 73 (from 66). This encourages Amarr Scouts to initiate engagements inside that range with Scrambler Pistol. Hardly OP, but a dedicated SP user will be rewarded by the bonus with more damage application/more room to work with. With the range bonus SP would be more feasible to initiate with in order to a) have a chance at taking them out with a head shot and b) at the very least strip shields quickly and work through some armor.
A Gallente Scout can rush in with the Ion Pistol, rapid fire it, and finish with either a charge shot or ACR. The ROF bonus rewards dedicated Ion Pistol users by giving them a little extra punch when taking that gambit.
A Minmatar Scout can strip shields and work down some armor with an ASCR/AR/Breach AR and then finish targets off quick with the Flaylock Pistol. The clip size bonus rewards dedicated Flaylock Pistol users with an extra rocket for more finishing power.
A Caldari Scout can either use its rapid shield recharge to skirmish at mid range a bit and strip shields with ASCR or AR variant and follow up with a faster firing Bolt Pistol, or take advantage of the faster charge and go in initially for the quick alpha, hipfiring the Bolt Pistol.
The charge bonus is obviously powerful considering the BP's range and alpha, but this is mitigated by the upcoming ROF nerf (making charge time a smaller portion of overall fire interval...and just making the BP worse). And the percentage can be tweaked to be not too much/too little. Also, before you say anything, the affect of the bonus on the Magsec's 0.1 sec charge time would be negligible.
The cloak bonus has to stay of course. The knife bonus could stay or go but it seems fitting to have it there so that all scouts are better than other suits with knives. And it conflicts with the sidearm bonus instead of stacking with it, as running sidearm with knives is gonna be a failfit for all but the most skilled sidearm users.
As for the EWAR bonuses, come to think of it a precision bonus is worth much less than a profile bonus since the latter helps you get under scans. Profile bonused scouts have an imbalanced advantage, so the best thing would be to do away with all precision/profile bonuses. Keep the the 10% radius bonus for all scouts so that there's an EWAR reward for specialization. Minus the knife bonus, this brings the scout back to having only three bonuses.
Regarding the extra module slot, its utility could be further limited by only adding a small amount of CPU--and no PG--to each scout's fittings, thereby enabling scouts to fit an extra EWAR mod (factoring in fitting skills) while making the extra slot minimally exploitable otherwise.
So, after these revisions, here's what the scout bonuses would look like:
All scouts:
-15% cloak fitting cost
+10% scan radius
-10% nova knife charge time
Amarr-
+2% laser sidearm range
Gallente-
+3% hybrid blaster sidearm ROF
Caldari-
-4(?)% hybrid rail sidearm charge time
Minmatar-
+5% explosive sidearm clip size
TLDR:
- Sidearm bonuses give scouts more options and more stopping power in CQC/short-mid range while keeping the ramifications of the buff within a limited scope. Also lots of fun and makes scouts ice cold pistol specialists.
- Removing profile/precision bonuses and giving all scouts the scan bonus balances EWAR among scouts.
- The knife bonus encourages ALL scouts to use them.
- Adding an extra slot while adding only enough CPU (after skills) for a complex EWAR mod gives scouts the options to either buff desired EWAR stats or tweak their overall module setup to just slightly improve their other stats. |
zzZaXxx
Capital Acquisitions LLC
817
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 22:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Another twist for scouts could be based on the new(ish) scan ranges. There's now close, mid and long range passive scans, with precision getting worse as you go farther out. Scouts could have two kinds of precision bonuses: a mid-range bonus for Minmatar and Gallente and a less powerful (over a larger area) long range bonus for Caldari and Amarr. So the bonuses would look like this:
Minmatar & Gallente:
-5% mid-range scan precision
Caldari & Amarr:
-3% long range scan precision
I win
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