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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.28 04:01:00 - [1] - Quote Ladies and Gentlemen, it is time for a rare CPM Show GÇÿn Tell. Often it is wondered just what the CPM is doing, thinking about, or discussing with the devs. In this case, we can give you very specific information on how the CPM contributed to Hotfix FoxFour. Every one of us has provided input, or generated numbers, or pointed out gaping holes within each other'sGÇÖ premises. So far we are actually beginning to functionally gel as a group and able to provide meaningful input on issues and questions brought to us by players and CCP both. So without further adieu, I give you the submitted list of priorities given by the CPM to CCP as what we believed should be focused on for Hotfix Foxfour. Final List of CPM Priorities for Hotfix Tier 1: Top priorities defined by CPM in no particular order. ItGÇÖs probably best for the Dev team to determine which order is most feasible. Officer weapon proliferation is too rapid. RattatiGÇÖs Response: We are looking at possibly removing Officer Weapon generation on the Warbarge. That said, I do want officer gear to permeate and be a part of PC, creating a supply and demand chain for top corps, so there will remain a need for these to be available. Swarm changes (Reduced impact OR smaller target box, reduced tracking ability) RattatiGÇÖs Response: Hotfix FF has a turn radius nerf, lock on range nerf and bonus to Calmando from Minmando LP stores fully stocked (as per previously submitted spreadsheets) RattatiGÇÖs Response: WeGÇÖre looking at trying to find a less time-intensive method of inputting these items. All remaining items (save for special events items like Krin's skin and DM? Discuss) to become tradable. Priority to all the Quafe Weapon BPO's and Pirate Skins from the strongboxes. Rattati listened and took our concerns under advisement, so we will see what happens and where the situation goes from here. The current stance is that trading purchased items is higher on the list, such as drens, toxins etc Stock DK store RattatiGÇÖs Response: Testing the waters this week with some offerings. I need to see what happens with those. Turret Improvement. Blaster/accuracy & Damage. Missile/Flight Path. Rails/Detection RattatiGÇÖs Response: Interesting, I had not realized this was a top priority, missed this completely but we did try to fix Small Blaster. Maybe Weak Spots on HAVs and CAHAV buff will shake this whole thing up Shield Module additions/Shield delay revisitedProposal document Here, Spreadsheet Included Note: This proposal evolved into what we have today after a LOT of effort and theorycrafting. and the actual final submission can be seen on THIS spreadsheet. RattatiGÇÖs Response: Delay design fully implemented, the other two are grouped with more things that need creation such as Assault Swarm launcher, racial Havs and some weapon shenanigans Tier 2: Secondary priorities for the hotfix. Again, we believe that the order of attention should be defined by the development team. Lore fixes/additions RattatiGÇÖs Response: This is complex due to the amount of back-end work that has to be done. Fix impact damage to LAVs (reduce it) RattatiGÇÖs Response: Time for a Tech Evaluation Adjusting the Assault Rifle line of weapons to be superior in CQCF to longer-range weapons - RattatiGÇÖs Response: Adding weapon bonuses to Caldari and Gallente Assaults Rifle balance in general (bring ascr back in line, revisit RR/ARR ADS performance)ARs need work - RattatiGÇÖs Response: Hotfix FF (but I am also now looking at overall recoil behaviour) LAV Tiered Progression RattatiGÇÖs Response: This may be better handled with different variants of LAV rather than a straight upward progression Frame skill bonuses along racial lines and dropsuit command bonus added. Proposal Document Here Note: This part of the proposal is tentative, but was included with the final shield spreadsheet. We were hoping to differentiate the tanking styles between races. RattatiGÇÖs Response: Backend work needs to happen for this. Tier 3: Tertiary priorities for the CPM. Considered on GÇ£as time permitsGÇ¥ Weapon Tuning for underutilized weapons (Breach Flaylock, Burst ScP, etc.) RattatiGÇÖs Response: Some already addressed in Hotfix FF. We are open to more input on this end. Fixing the Hardener Animation AND/OR Turret Snap-Back Video example Link Here RattatiGÇÖs Response: I tried before, but this needs more client work and animator time. LAV Base Resist Value added to gunnerGÇÖs seat. = Adding a shield bubble for the gunner RattatiGÇÖs Response: Impossible, even with a client change Galassault/Calassault Bonus fix RattatiGÇÖs Response: Hotfix FF, but maybe Cal could also be reduce charge up on rail rifles to make it shine on Cal Assaults WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Maximus Mobius 1	Posted - 2015.09.28 04:28:00 - [2] - Quote I am particularly interested in what vehicles will look like after this hotfix. Vehicles in general seem to be more of a liability rather than a beneficiary to the team. LAVs also seem to be a pub and Fac battle asset used primarily for heavys and exceptionally slow and lazy medium suits. So some sort of small turret buff will allow for a type of enemy suppression or area denial. The swarm launcher trade off is very nice and I say it with no bias. Removing officer weapon generation will help those traders who have stockpiled weaponry and suits thus allowing for prices to go back up and the market to be less saturated which will be good. The DK market will also be a nice addition but the LP market seems to be good as is but whatever. I'm not CPM. Everything else doesn't concern me but seems to be good. Soviet Power Supreme
Soraya Xel Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 6	Posted - 2015.09.28 04:35:00 - [3] - Quote Very disappointed to see nerfing an already underperforming weapon on the priority list. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Kaltos Darksbane Shadow Wolves Inc. 494	Posted - 2015.09.28 04:36:00 - [4] - Quote All remaining items (save for special events items like Krin's skin and DM? Discuss) to become tradable. Priority to all the Quafe Weapon BPO's and Pirate Skins from the strongboxes. Rattati listened and took our concerns under advisement, so we will see what happens and where the situation goes from here. The current stance is that trading purchased items is higher on the list, such as drens, toxins etc Being an avid trader/seller in game I really want the quafe bpo line available for trade. I dont see the hold up for this. If these items become tradable while being highly sought after like they are this will cause persons like me to buy more aurum for keys. Win-win for both CCP and me as they profit in rl $ and i profit in isk. If you don't receive the answer you want please be patient, my "F**k's Given" dispenser is broke.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.28 04:37:00 - [5] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: Vehicles in general seem to be more of a liability rather than a beneficiary to the team. This depends entirely on which lens you are viewing vehicles through. I find LAVs to be useful as transport. More would require that the LAV turrets work properly, which is something we are pushing (and more importantly to me, I am supporting). Dropships are something Darth is better at commenting on than I am, so I'll let him address those. HAVs are often the elephant in the room for one reason or another. We'll see how the new changes to weakpoints play out. I'm hoping that it puts a brake on some HAV shenanigans, without basically making them look like black cat firecrackers all popping in sequence. We'll try to keep you posted if we start going deep on vehicles. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Maximus Mobius 1	Posted - 2015.09.28 04:46:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: Vehicles in general seem to be more of a liability rather than a beneficiary to the team. This depends entirely on which lens you are viewing vehicles through. I find LAVs to be useful as transport. More would require that the LAV turrets work properly, which is something we are pushing (and more importantly to me, I am supporting). Dropships are something Darth is better at commenting on than I am, so I'll let him address those. HAVs are often the elephant in the room for one reason or another. We'll see how the new changes to weakpoints play out. I'm hoping that it puts a brake on some HAV shenanigans, without basically making them look like black cat firecrackers all popping in sequence. We'll try to keep you posted if we start going deep on vehicles. I can tell you that I have been tanking since the first week of playing dust. I know I'm basically beating the already beaten carcass of the dead horse but pre 1.7 was THE most level playing field for HAVs and AV users. But once I get back on and give it the once over, I'll tell Kirk my opinion on it. If you need it, I'll be your tank guinea pig. And I view through the lens of someone who seen symbiotic teamwork with infantry and tanks and who seen mavericks chasing kills while I'm stuck sacrifing myself to protect an objective that will get hacked regardless. Soviet Power Supreme
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.28 04:51:00 - [7] - Quote Maximus Mobius wrote: I can tell you that I have been tanking since the first week of playing dust. I know I'm basically beating the already beaten carcass of the dead horse but pre 1.7 was THE most level playing field for HAVs and AV users. But once I get back on and give it the once over, I'll tell Kirk my opinion on it. If you need it, I'll be your tank guinea pig. And I view through the lens of someone who seen symbiotic teamwork with infantry and tanks and who seen mavericks chasing kills while I'm stuck sacrifing myself to protect an objective that will get hacked regardless. Beat the carcass all you want, if people want a major vehicle overhaul to follow up what's going on here, this is the place to (hopefully politely) say so. My opinion (not the CPM's policy) is that vehicles should be powerful and sustainable, but still fit in as a "disposable" asset. I'll acknowledge that a 150k LAV, or 1.4 mil ISK HAV is not exactly what one would call "sustainable" at any level. But if the losses weren't so agonizing to the wallet, the losses wouldn't feel so frustrating. That's my take, I know some others vehemently disagree with me. I know some agree. But let's see how the HAV weakpoints play out. Like I said, the one thing I'm worried about is the tanks dying TOO easily. I'm desperately hoping that isn't the case. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Maximus Mobius 1	Posted - 2015.09.28 05:03:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Maximus Mobius wrote: I can tell you that I have been tanking since the first week of playing dust. I know I'm basically beating the already beaten carcass of the dead horse but pre 1.7 was THE most level playing field for HAVs and AV users. But once I get back on and give it the once over, I'll tell Kirk my opinion on it. If you need it, I'll be your tank guinea pig. And I view through the lens of someone who seen symbiotic teamwork with infantry and tanks and who seen mavericks chasing kills while I'm stuck sacrifing myself to protect an objective that will get hacked regardless. Beat the carcass all you want, if people want a major vehicle overhaul to follow up what's going on here, this is the place to (hopefully politely) say so. My opinion (not the CPM's policy) is that vehicles should be powerful and sustainable, but still fit in as a "disposable" asset. I'll acknowledge that a 150k LAV, or 1.4 mil ISK HAV is not exactly what one would call "sustainable" at any level. But if the losses weren't so agonizing to the wallet, the losses wouldn't feel so frustrating. That's my take, I know some others vehemently disagree with me. I know some agree. But let's see how the HAV weakpoints play out. Like I said, the one thing I'm worried about is the tanks dying TOO easily. I'm desperately hoping that isn't the case. The enormous price tag and potential disposability is what gave the tankers the trade off for being...well, tanks. Games like PlanetSide 2 show how tanks are an asset before anything else. I would be willing to spend more than 2 mil on a tank if I knew I would get the bang out for my buck if I played it smart. I am a tanker and view myself as an asset. Doing what must be done for the better of the team. I acknowledge that role. And if the price tag also tells me I'm just an asset, so be it. But I want the reassurance that I'm a powerful asset that should be reckoned. Soviet Power Supreme
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.28 05:09:00 - [9] - Quote We're off-topic. If you want to talk to me about this you can hit me up on skype. Odds are you know someone who has my info, so getting ahold of me isn't hard. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Vulpes Dolosus Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.09.28 05:36:00 - [10] - Quote I don't see armor tank or large blaster rebalance. Large blasters need a range nerf. Their optimal is 75m and falloff reaches 100. I personally have been able to snipe infantry from the redline on certain maps, as well as been on the receiving end in a shield tank. Armor tanks are very over powered now, and the small buffs to shield tanks, while appreciated and necessary, won't bring them to balance. Mainly they need their speed nerfed; even played armor tanks can accelerate on a whim to full speed. Bring them more inline with shield tanks, and buff their turn speed to compensate (I've never understood why an armor tank is so much faster than a shield tank). Heavy reps could use a change too, rep+hardener fits are neigh unkillable except from a breach or rail turret. My suggestion is increase the rep time for heavy reps to 3-5s, but keep the hp/s the same (eg from 100hp/s to 300hp/3s). This allows some openings for AV to kill rep fits and hopefully give shield tanks an edge as well. PS Also nerf large blaster installations by giving them bullet spread. Those things can snipe for miles. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.28 05:48:00 - [11] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I don't see armor tank or large blaster rebalance. Large blasters need a range nerf. Their optimal is 75m and falloff reaches 100. I personally have been able to snipe infantry from the redline on certain maps, as well as been on the receiving end in a shield tank. Armor tanks are very over powered now, and the small buffs to shield tanks, while appreciated and necessary, won't bring them to balance. Mainly they need their speed nerfed; even played armor tanks can accelerate on a whim to full speed. Bring them more inline with shield tanks, and buff their turn speed to compensate (I've never understood why an armor tank is so much faster than a shield tank). Heavy reps could use a change too, rep+hardener fits are neigh unkillable except from a breach or rail turret. My suggestion is increase the rep time for heavy reps to 3-5s, but keep the hp/s the same (eg from 100hp/s to 300hp/3s). This allows some openings for AV to kill rep fits and hopefully give shield tanks an edge as well. PS Also nerf large blaster installations by giving them bullet spread. Those things can snipe for miles. I already have a few things in the cooker. I'm waiting to see how the HAV weakspots play out. and extending the reps out won't make them any easier without gimping them. I've already done a LOT of math on this one. HAVs have to be balanced at the same time, against the same metrics together, with AV doing the same for it to work out. I support balance, but I don't support pulling the teeth from the vehicles. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Bradric Banewolf Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.09.28 06:33:00 - [12] - Quote I can agree with the order to which these fall, and think the ideas for fixes are great! Would only ask that CCP be made very aware that recoil on the rifles only effect no mod players. Modded players can mitigate recoil to zero no matter where rattati puts it. Changes these numbers to exhibit more recoil only hurts the players who actually read the EULA. Interested to see how all the vehicle stuff plays out as I am respeccing back into my tank! There should be some interesting battles ahead, and I just hope my lil wallet can hold up to the cost Small animation fixes are past due like the turret snap back and others. Glad you guys caught that and brought it to his attention. Also, the small blaster issues as well. Overall good show bro! o7 "Anybody order chaos?"
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.09.28 08:04:00 - [13] - Quote On the idea of taking officer weapons away from warbarges: That cuts down on a huge amount of meta gameplay, and definitly hurts player trade. You still need to invest some time and resources to produce officer gear. I like the idea that everyone who has saved thier own resources can produce something valuable. The only reason to trade officer weapons is that you dont have to worry about them becoming so rare that you are better off skilling into that weapon rather than trading them. Personally, that would wreck my own meta, since i trade officer weapons for suits and skins. Strongbox drops just dont cut it. Rattati's premise that officer gear should be for top PC corps: Just, no. Instead of officer weapons being spread out according to the free market, what that entails is creating a marketplace bottleneck where only a relative few well have acess to large amounts OP gear. That would drag PC's back into its elitist state, where up and commers will have alot of trouble going against a vet PC corp with bons's running about. And those same corps will turn around and stop the crap out of pubs. They have acess and nobody else does. Recipe for disaster that. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.28 15:05:00 - [14] - Quote Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. May I just caution against adding more suit bonuses. The per level bonuses are very bad for new players as they significantly increase the gap between high SP and low SP. I thought it was generally accepted that this gap was too large in Dust already and could do with being reduced not increased. For example, if you wanted to increase TTK (which I don't think I agree with btw), it would be better to put though hp and regen buffs straight onto the suit base stats rather than make them skill bonuses.
Asad Thahab-Jabal Incorruptibles 199	Posted - 2015.09.28 15:09:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Officer weapon proliferation is too rapid. RattatiGÇÖs Response: We are looking at possibly removing Officer Weapon generation on the Warbarge. That said, I do want officer gear to permeate and be a part of PC, creating a supply and demand chain for top corps, so there will remain a need for these to be available. Can I say that I am surprised and relieved to see this topic. I am seeing a large uptick in full officer fittings in public contracts and that does not bode well. It's like I was telling my corpmates a week or two again: Officer gear does not need to be the new proto. With that in mind, can I make a suggestion: sharply reduce the appearance of officer weapons from the experimental lab. You don't have to remove them entirely. Make officer gear a very rare drop instead. Breakin Stuff wrote: Lore fixes/additions RattatiGÇÖs Response: This is complex due to the amount of back-end work that has to be done. Can you explain what is meant by "Lore fixes/additions"? It's a bit vague. Do you mean updating some of the 'Show Info' descriptions of things? Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 456	Posted - 2015.09.28 15:10:00 - [16] - Quote Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Officer weapon proliferation is too rapid. RattatiGÇÖs Response: We are looking at possibly removing Officer Weapon generation on the Warbarge. That said, I do want officer gear to permeate and be a part of PC, creating a supply and demand chain for top corps, so there will remain a need for these to be available. Can I say that I am surprised and relieved to see this topic. I am seeing a large uptick in full officer fittings in public contracts and that does not bode well. It's like I was telling my corpmates a week or two again: Officer gear does not need to be the new proto. Breakin Stuff wrote: Lore fixes/additions RattatiGÇÖs Response: This is complex due to the amount of back-end work that has to be done. Can you explain what is meant by "Lore fixes/additions"? It's a bit vague. Do you mean updating some of the 'Show Info' descriptions of things? I think they mean things like changing the Assault Rifle to the Plasma Rifle, as well as the show-info tabs Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2015.09.28 20:31:00 - [17] - Quote Anything for the new player experience? Bringing the tutorial back? EDIT: On topic, great list and thanks for communicating what's been going on behind the scenes, showing all of the responses of what can and can't be done. Thank you and well done. o7 CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.29 14:57:00 - [18] - Quote The shield module ideas are pretty good. Please look into the lower tier rechargers, energisers and regulators. The progression from militia to complex is pretty poor. I think the cpu and pg costs for the shield modules are too low in your spreadsheet. The ratio of CPU to PG is pretty good, but for them to be on par with armour modules you need to increase the cpu and pg costs by about 15%, according to my calculations. I think it is odd that you seem to be theory crafting the shield module changes based mainly on a 4 hp mod fit, and only 1 regen mod. It seems pretty odd to expect people to dedicate half their module slots just to hp, and isn't really how people behave to make a viable armour fit, unless using reactive plates. It is particularly strange considering there are two types of shield regen mod, so you couldn't even fit one of each if only using one regen mod. Might I suggest looking at fits including 2 or 3 hp and 3 or 2 regen, for a 5 module slot investment to tank. Or even a four slot investment with a balance between regen and hp? I don't think balancing should encourage the use of four hp mods. That said, other than the fitting costs, it looks pretty good. Calculations based on comparing 3 ferro + 2 rep with 3 ext + 1 eng + 1 reg. 1 PG equivalent to 5 CPU based on average assault suit fitting ratios.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.29 17:43:00 - [19] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Anything for the new player experience? Bringing the tutorial back? EDIT: On topic, great list and thanks for communicating what's been going on behind the scenes, showing all of the responses of what can and can't be done. Thank you and well done. o7 I don't even know what has to happen for this to be a thing. If I had my way we'd have a tutorial mission set at least 10 missions long where it was just familiarization with the game before you get dropped in with other players. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.29 17:56:00 - [20] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: The shield module ideas are pretty good. Please look into the lower tier rechargers, energisers and regulators. The progression from militia to complex is pretty poor. *edited out the rest. I think I see the CPM's perspective on regulators now. Fitting costs have been balanced here without consideration of regulators. I thought this was a problem, but when I think of the regen delay changes, I see that regulators are being relegated to a minor module to help shield tanking, rather than a main tanking module. Due to the regulator's ability to discourage dual tanking, I think it's a bit of a shame to reduce it's importance. However I can see how it is easier to balance things in a world where regulators are less significant. I guess the idea then would be that kincats are the shield tanker's equivalent of damage mods, as an assault module that can be fitted without sacrificing tank, to discourage dual tanking. With this in mind, I like the numbers presented here for modules, having looked at both the regen penalties on reinforced extenders and the new CPU and PG stats for basic and reinforced extenders. I do wonder though whether the regen penalty on the reinforced extender is enough. Have you considered adding a profile penalty? As well as increasing the sacrifice on all suits for getting the extra hp, it would particularly discourage scouts from using them, who otherwise may get a disproportionately high benefit from them. Don't shields increase profile in EVE? I think the CPU/PG of flux extenders should be similar to normal extenders, in the same way that reactive plates are similar to ferroscale. For example, a reinforced extender and a fiux extender together give more hp, better regen and a shorter delay than fitting two regular extenders, and costs less PG. I think you should have a look at some slightly lower hp configurations. Such as 2 rep 3 ferro, or 3 extender 2 energiser. All the examples are pretty high up in the hp scale. It would also be interesting to see the figures using the hotfix regen numbers. Perhaps I'll have a look myself. the credit for the reinforced and Flux extenders also goes to ripley Riley and Cat Merc. They were the primary instigators who got me on the idea (several months ago) and contributed as much as I did to the idea. But we deliberately rigged the reinforced extender to do significant harm to shield regen. To the point where three reinforced extenders on a calsent absolutely requires a shield energizer to get back up to the baseline shield regen. Putting reinforced Extenders on an Armor suit is going to pretty much be the definition of headache-inducing. The problem with regulators is they MANDATED a presence in the low slots of a serious shield tanker. They weren't really optional. That's an issue in and of itself. That won't change the fact that they're still going to be one of the most useful options. The caldari sentinel's 4/1 delay (which doesn't change in the hotfix) may be tiny on the depleted side by that doesn't change the fact that a large number of calsent players fell that the shield regulator is the best use of their one low slot. I think the Flux Extender Option will appeal to scouts more. It would increase their ability to pop in and out of combat rapidly. The Reinforced means they would have to retreat and hide for extended periods. Finally we looked at the profile thing. For most suits that's not a sacrifice. Especially not since the galassault and minassault are proving (with shotguns) that speed > all and screw ewar. exchanging the regen penalty for a profile one won't even make people who want it as a fast-attack-murdersuit even blink. reducing recovery rates sharply? That actually will make most people think. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2015.09.29 18:05:00 - [21] - Quote The tutorial we had (albeit short) was removed with the introduction of the daily missions. Sad fact, I think it was actually useful since it showed the basics of making a fit / Loadout etc. But it's no point I dwelling on the past. Could the CPM discuss what can be done with the daily mission structure we have today? - Do we have a "common" pool of missions, or do they differentiate between Acadamy players, "newbs" and vets? - Can they track other things apart from in-game performance, I.e can for example static missions be created that triggers when players create a fit, buy stuff on the store, or other "merc quarters" activities? - Can they create static missions (like for the event) that only applies to sertain players, like Academy players? If CCP played it right, the daily mission structure could become a robust NPE tool, like giving a substantial SP reward (or even a free respec) at Acadamy graduation (for example). I think it's worth investigating what is possible and what is not, and for the CPM to help CCP tailor good missions for new players to get into the game. Disclaimer: I have absolutely no clue if the above topics are already in place today, since we don't have access to the Acadamy anymore. If so, please correct (and ignore) my comment.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.29 18:08:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: the credit for the reinforced and Flux extenders also goes to ripley Riley and Cat Merc. They were the primary instigators who got me on the idea (several months ago) and contributed as much as I did to the idea. But we deliberately rigged the reinforced extender to do significant harm to shield regen. To the point where three reinforced extenders on a calsent absolutely requires a shield energizer to get back up to the baseline shield regen. Putting reinforced Extenders on an Armor suit is going to pretty much be the definition of headache-inducing. The problem with regulators is they MANDATED a presence in the low slots of a serious shield tanker. They weren't really optional. That's an issue in and of itself. That won't change the fact that they're still going to be one of the most useful options. The caldari sentinel's 4/1 delay (which doesn't change in the hotfix) may be tiny on the depleted side by that doesn't change the fact that a large number of calsent players fell that the shield regulator is the best use of their one low slot. I think the Flux Extender Option will appeal to scouts more. It would increase their ability to pop in and out of combat rapidly. The Reinforced means they would have to retreat and hide for extended periods. Finally we looked at the profile thing. For most suits that's not a sacrifice. Especially not since the galassault and minassault are proving (with shotguns) that speed > all and screw ewar. exchanging the regen penalty for a profile one won't even make people who want it as a fast-attack-murdersuit even blink. reducing recovery rates sharply? That actually will make most people think. Thanks for your reply. I added a little bit about the reinforced extender fitting cost. Needs to be a bit higher, otherwise you can too easily replace the vanilla ones with a combo of reinforced and flux. And with the profile penalty, I meant in addition to the regen penalty. The regen penalty seems to work nicely numbers wise, but since it is easily mitigated with flux extenders and energisers it doesn't really become much of an overall sacrifice. I think there needs to be another penalty on top. Also, whilst regen is important to scouts, the fact that hp mods aren't percentage based means they give comparatively more benefit to scouts. This means that I'm worried the extra hp on the reinforced extender would look very appealing to a scout as it gives a higher percentage bonus than on another suit. They may forgo their regen to fit more hp. This is the kind of thing that caused problems with plates in the past, where scouts would sacrifice mobility to hp and upset people. Also for this reason flux extenders would probably be less beneficial to scouts than regular ones.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.29 18:10:00 - [23] - Quote actually if you look the reinforced use the current extender costs, and we reduced the regular extenders. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.29 18:12:00 - [24] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: actually if you look the reinforced use the current extender costs, and we reduced the regular extenders. Actually current extenders cost 11 pg rather than 8. By my calculations reinforced shields should be about 56 cpu 9pg. Perhaps if they were 54cpu 11pg like current ones that would be fine.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.29 18:17:00 - [25] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: actually if you look the reinforced use the current extender costs, and we reduced the regular extenders. Actually current extenders cost 11 pg rather than 8. By my calculations reinforced shields should be about 56 cpu 9pg. Perhaps if they were 54cpu 11pg like current ones that would be fine. Oh that's right, we were looking at the fact that Shields were proportionally huge in fitting cost for very little comparative benefit to armor. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
howard sanchez Clonation 1	Posted - 2015.09.29 18:37:00 - [26] - Quote I really thought we might see the hot fix go in with Vanguard's deployment to Tranquility. Too bad. When do you think the next likely window for Foxfour to drop might be?
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.29 19:08:00 - [27] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: actually if you look the reinforced use the current extender costs, and we reduced the regular extenders. Actually current extenders cost 11 pg rather than 8. By my calculations reinforced shields should be about 56 cpu 9pg. Perhaps if they were 54cpu 11pg like current ones that would be fine. Oh that's right, we were looking at the fact that Shields were proportionally huge in fitting cost for very little comparative benefit to armor. Yeah, 11 of is a bit crazy, even considering the fact that energisers cost 0 pg. And the reduction will help them go with kincats. I do think it's important to maintain the comparatively high fitting costs of hp mods though, to promote fitting variety and interesting gameplay.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.29 19:22:00 - [28] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The caldari sentinel's 4/1 delay (which doesn't change in the hotfix) may be tiny on the depleted side by that doesn't change the fact that a large number of calsent players fell that the shield regulator is the best use of their one low slot. Well, I think a regulator probably should be one of the best things for a Cal Sent to fit. But I agree there should be other viable options.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.29 22:32:00 - [29] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: . I do think it's important to maintain the comparatively high fitting costs of hp mods though, to promote fitting variety and interesting gameplay. I firmly believe the solution is to iterate on the utility mods that are not HP, regen, damage mods or kincats. Tweaking them to useful utility should clean up HP > all mentality, at least among more imaginative players. I wish the secondary systems in the game had more sane mechanics behind them. But until then I'm all about fitting variety and that variety being worth the trouble. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.29 22:35:00 - [30] - Quote Also please bear in mind my responses are my thoughts. The others on the CPM don't necessarily have the exact same take on things I answer on. So I'm speaking for my part not "this is the CPM line." There's a lot of flex room here. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 01:11:00 - [31] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: On the idea of taking officer weapons away from warbarges: That cuts down on a huge amount of meta gameplay, and definitly hurts player trade. You still need to invest some time and resources to produce officer gear. I like the idea that everyone who has saved thier own resources can produce something valuable. The only reason to trade officer weapons is that you dont have to worry about them becoming so rare that you are better off skilling into that weapon rather than trading them. Personally, that would wreck my own meta, since i trade officer weapons for suits and skins. Strongbox drops just dont cut it. Rattati's premise that officer gear should be for top PC corps: Just, no. Instead of officer weapons being spread out according to the free market, what that entails is creating a marketplace bottleneck where only a relative few well have acess to large amounts OP gear. That would drag PC's back into its elitist state, where up and commers will have alot of trouble going against a vet PC corp with bons's running about. And those same corps will turn around and stop the crap out of pubs. They have acess and nobody else does. Recipe for disaster that. Please do not interpret "spitballing" theorycrafting as a statement of intent tesfa. There is not, thus far, any talk of removing or reducing battle salvage or lockbox weapons. The only reason it's being considered for the barge is the rapidity and comparative effortlessness of harvesting officer weapons from the barge. My read is that Rattati wants the officer gear most prevalent and easily obtained via PC. There is no talk about there being "only" PC methods of acquisition. None of us have issue with players being able to acquire as far as I know. But the incredible ease and rapidity of generation in the barge feels a bit much. It would help player trade by forcing prices for officer gear upward. But in my opinion officer gear shouldn't be so easily attained that people spam it in pubs without a second thought. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.09.30 01:15:00 - [32] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: On the idea of taking officer weapons away from warbarges: That cuts down on a huge amount of meta gameplay, and definitly hurts player trade. You still need to invest some time and resources to produce officer gear. I like the idea that everyone who has saved thier own resources can produce something valuable. The only reason to trade officer weapons is that you dont have to worry about them becoming so rare that you are better off skilling into that weapon rather than trading them. Personally, that would wreck my own meta, since i trade officer weapons for suits and skins. Strongbox drops just dont cut it. Rattati's premise that officer gear should be for top PC corps: Just, no. Instead of officer weapons being spread out according to the free market, what that entails is creating a marketplace bottleneck where only a relative few well have acess to large amounts OP gear. That would drag PC's back into its elitist state, where up and commers will have alot of trouble going against a vet PC corp with bons's running about. And those same corps will turn around and stop the crap out of pubs. They have acess and nobody else does. Recipe for disaster that. Yeah, we're definitely in agreement (at least I am) that officer weapons being put into PC is a bad idea. Positive feedback loops and all that. On the other hand, Officer weapons need to be cut from the warbarge -or at the very least- need to have their spawn ratio toned down dramatically. Reason being is because, yes, it does take quite a bit of start up funding but once you have it down you can get free officer gear just for logging in. That makes no sense at all considering that everything else from STD/ADV/PRO ISK gear and FW gear must be paid for. Weaponry that powerful needs to be given out with moderation and at the moment it is so prolific that corporations creating leisure stock-piles to just hand out for battles. That probably shouldn't be the case, given that it is literally the most powerful gear you can get. Varoth Drac wrote: The shield module ideas are pretty good. Please look into the lower tier rechargers, energisers and regulators. The progression from militia to complex is pretty poor. *edited out the rest. I think I see the CPM's perspective on regulators now. Fitting costs have been balanced here without consideration of regulators. I thought this was a problem, but when I think of the regen delay changes, I see that regulators are being relegated to a minor module to help shield tanking, rather than a main tanking module. Due to the regulator's ability to discourage dual tanking, I think it's a bit of a shame to reduce it's importance. However I can see how it is easier to balance things in a world where regulators are less significant. I guess the idea then would be that kincats are the shield tanker's equivalent of damage mods, as an assault module that can be fitted without sacrificing tank, to discourage dual tanking. With this in mind, I like the numbers presented here for modules, having looked at both the regen penalties on reinforced extenders and the new CPU and PG stats for basic extenders. I think the increased fitting cost of reinforced extenders should follow a similar markup as armour plates, so needs to be a bit more costly. A plate costs 50% more than ferro, and gives about 75% more hp. The reinforced shield would give 50% more hp, so should cost about 30% more than normal extenders. I do wonder though whether the regen penalty on the reinforced extender is enough. Have you considered adding a profile penalty? As well as increasing the sacrifice on all suits for getting the extra hp, it would particularly discourage scouts from using them, who otherwise may get a disproportionately high benefit from them. Don't shields increase profile in EVE? I think the CPU/PG of flux extenders should be similar to normal extenders, in the same way that reactive plates are similar to ferroscale. For example, a reinforced extender and a fiux extender together give more hp, better regen and a shorter delay than fitting two regular extenders, and costs less PG. I think you should have a look at some slightly lower hp configurations. Such as 2 rep 3 ferro, or 3 extender 2 energiser. All the examples are pretty high up in the hp scale. It would also be interesting to see the figures using the hotfix regen numbers. Perhaps I'll have a look myself. Thing about regulators is that while they're designed to discourage dual-tanking, a lot of times they fail at it. Making shield tankers fit regulators by necessity has already proven not to work with the shield extender penalties, it just makes them fit armor plates which are far more beneficial. If we ever want to see regulators (or anything besides armor) we need to encourage the use of those non-buffer modules so that their more beneficial to run than just stacking plates. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.30 06:47:00 - [33] - Quote @Aeon - yep, I can see it working. You just let need higher fitting costs on the new modules. And maybe an extra reinforced drawback.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.09.30 10:54:00 - [34] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Please do not interpret "spitballing" theorycrafting as a statement of intent tesfa. There is not, thus far, any talk of removing or reducing battle salvage or lockbox weapons. The only reason it's being considered for the barge is the rapidity and comparative effortlessness of harvesting officer weapons from the barge. My read is that Rattati wants the officer gear most prevalent and easily obtained via PC. There is no talk about there being "only" PC methods of acquisition. None of us have issue with players being able to acquire as far as I know. But the incredible ease and rapidity of generation in the barge feels a bit much. It would help player trade by forcing prices for officer gear upward. But in my opinion officer gear shouldn't be so easily attained that people spam it in pubs without a second thought. Sorry if tone seemed a bit off, thats the trouble with typing i suppose. I agree officer in pubs ought to be taken a look at. When players, not just PC players, but financialy smart ones have 100, 150, 200 mil isk in the wallet, how scarce would CCP have to make Officer gear that it would drive the market price up high enough to deter pub use? Without a sort of meta lock, you would have to seriously cut down on warbarge production. Creative ways of doing that might mean getting the other sub-systems up and running. Incentivize the players to spread the components out a lot more, instead of just pumping them into weapons. Perhaps decrease the component costs of tier upgrades, coupled witha similar decrease in warbarge bonus drops. Right now, its either I pump in 10,000 components into a 1% damage bonus increase or just invest in weapons. The grind is so outstanding that it is niether worth the time or the aur to max out the warbarge, when i have something i can trade now, engage in the meta now, and indulge in myself from time to time. I thinked i just talked my way into explaining why officer gear is so prevalent. Simply no other reasonable option to spend components on. Everybody therefore invests in officer gear, and now officer gear is everywhere. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 16	Posted - 2015.10.02 01:57:00 - [35] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. May I just caution against adding more suit bonuses. The per level bonuses are very bad for new players as they significantly increase the gap between high SP and low SP. I thought it was generally accepted that this gap was too large in Dust already and could do with being reduced not increased. For example, if you wanted to increase TTK (which I don't think I agree with btw), it would be better to put the hp and regen buffs straight onto the suit base stats rather than make them skill bonuses. ^
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 02:14:00 - [36] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. May I just caution against adding more suit bonuses. The per level bonuses are very bad for new players as they significantly increase the gap between high SP and low SP. I thought it was generally accepted that this gap was too large in Dust already and could do with being reduced not increased. For example, if you wanted to increase TTK (which I don't think I agree with btw), it would be better to put the hp and regen buffs straight onto the suit base stats rather than make them skill bonuses. ^ Also an option, but we'll see what comes of it. Believe it or not the frame bonus proposal has a lot to do with the inability to really differentiate fitting meta and doctrine. Gallente can't rep significantly more than an identically fit Amarr, and the Amarr are generally supposed to have more raw toughness on their side. Caldari are supposed to be the shield buffer race while the minmatar go heavy speed and fast recovery a lot. It was one way to do it, and as importantly, to remove an "sp tax" of skills that do nothing. Past that, I'm not really interested in dinking around with TTK much. Screw with it TOO much and you get the same problems in the reverse. But that's also why the bonuses would go to base stats on the suits. There's a few more "SP Tax" skills that provide no actual benefit, but the frams skills are one of the ones that really hose newer players IMHO, getting dropsuits with no bonuses whatsoever in order to graduate to suits that benefit from actually skilling into them. Of course, vehicles have similar issues with no-benefit skills where the skills were stripped of bonusing between chrome and uprising. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 09:37:00 - [37] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Also an option, but we'll see what comes of it. Believe it or not the frame bonus proposal has a lot to do with the inability to really differentiate fitting meta and doctrine. Gallente can't rep significantly more than an identically fit Amarr, and the Amarr are generally supposed to have more raw toughness on their side. Caldari are supposed to be the shield buffer race while the minmatar go heavy speed and fast recovery a lot. It was one way to do it, and as importantly, to remove an "sp tax" of skills that do nothing. Past that, I'm not really interested in dinking around with TTK much. Screw with it TOO much and you get the same problems in the reverse. But that's also why the bonuses would go to base stats on the suits. There's a few more "SP Tax" skills that provide no actual benefit, but the frams skills are one of the ones that really hose newer players IMHO, getting dropsuits with no bonuses whatsoever in order to graduate to suits that benefit from actually skilling into them. Of course, vehicles have similar issues with no-benefit skills where the skills were stripped of bonusing between chrome and uprising. I see. The problem with these skill bonuses then, are that they don't really encourage racial fitting, as they just affect the base stats. Also, +20% base shields or armour is pretty extreme, and definitely would be bad for newer players. How about the following frame skills (which also carry over to the specialised suits): Amarr: +2% efficacy per level to armour plate modules (includes ferroscale and reactive) Gallente: +2% efficacy per level to armour repair modules Minmatar: + 2% efficacy per level to kinetic catalyser modules Caldari: +2% efficacy per level to shield recharger and shield energiser modules These would encourage skilling up the frame skills and encourage racial fitting styles by giving bonuses to the modules themselves. It also doesn't provide such a large bonus as to significantly disadvantage new players. Though it would still increase the divide between the new and veteran players, which is a bad thing. As for new players and basic frames: In an ideal world I would see the basic frames removed from the game. They are a pointless tax. Even with the buffs Ratatti has given them they are still pretty rubbish, and are a big part of the problem with the power gap between new players and veterans. They also just sound bad. Who want's to run around in a "basic frame" when you could use an "assault" or a "sentinel". Assuming frames won't be removed because CCP doesn't want to "remove content", they should be made actually viable for a new player. I know they have an extra equipment slot and more fitting, but let's be honest, a new player just wants to shoot people. Basic medium frames should have the same stats and slots as assault suits (like they used to). You can keep the extra equipment slot, as I like that they are between an assault and a log, but they have to have the hp of an assault. An assault suit then sacrifices it's second equipment for the weapon bonuses and weapon fitting bonuses. This way an assault is still worth skilling into (especially now Gallente and Caldari are getting decent weapon bonuses), but a medium frame isn't at a huge disadvantage, and may even be useful to a veteran due to the second equipment.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 18:55:00 - [38] - Quote The upshot is the bonuses we picked cant be modified by overstacking similar modules. They are based entirely on the base suit stats.. The other thing to consider is that modifying based off modules doesn't provide even returns. 10% bonus to an armor rep gives about 1 rep per second. Four of them gives roughly 4. That hardly answers the age old question of why racial suits aren't flat better at racial fitting doctrine. 10% to 4 extenders on a calassault would give what, 26-ish HP? Again, that's pretty much a not-bonus. Finally there are technical reasons why we had to pick skills modifying the base suit stats rather than modules. I dunno if I can go into specifics, so I won't. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.03 09:01:00 - [39] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The upshot is the bonuses we picked cant be modified by overstacking similar modules. They are based entirely on the base suit stats.. The other thing to consider is that modifying based off modules doesn't provide even returns. 10% bonus to an armor rep gives about 1 rep per second. Four of them gives roughly 4. That hardly answers the age old question of why racial suits aren't flat better at racial fitting doctrine. 10% to 4 extenders on a calassault would give what, 26-ish HP? Again, that's pretty much a not-bonus. Finally there are technical reasons why we had to pick skills modifying the base suit stats rather than modules. I dunno if I can go into specifics, so I won't. Technical reasons I can't argue with, though we have had module based bonuses in the past. You just aren't going to achieve what you want without module bonuses though. Giving Gallente more base armour repair is in no way going to encourage people to fit more armour repair on them. In fact it will do the opposite as people fit to reach the optimal middle ground between hp and regen. And it would still be much better to just add them to the base suit stats rather than making them a bonus. Except this variation is already intrinsic to the suits. Gallant already have more armour repair, Amarr already have more hp. If anything, it's the added speed of the Gallente that encourages regen over the Amarr. The bonuses I suggested were deliberately light, as they were designed to gently encourage fitting doctrines, not dictate how people must fit their suits. I also didn't want to add too much to the veteran advantage. I think without module bonuses you should just give up on the idea of further differentiating the races. If you really want to do it, I recommend modifying the base stats in a balanced way. No more bonuses. Reduce Gallente hp in exchange for regen. Reduce Amarr regen in exchange for hp, that kind of thing. No need to power creep everything. If you are worried about basic frames, just make them good, not a method of skilling up your specialised suits. Pure skill bonuses are bad because they mess up the idea of risk vs reward. You are supposed to have to pay for the advantages you take to the field. A skill bonus gives you an advantage for free.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.04 08:31:00 - [40] - Quote I'm going to agree to disagree with you here, Valroth, and leave it at that. While you do bring valid concerns to the table I have to say, for example the gallente bonus you propose, I assert that spending a skill to level 5 in order to gain a .975 HP/sec boost to an armor repair isn't worth the SP. Part of the idea is to give new players and veterans alike a reason to make bringing the frame skills to 5 worth the SP. the proportions you propose are, in my opinion, not going to make it worth that much. And at this point, given the way the discussions over the last three years have gone, I believe we can safely assume that no, removing the basic frames is NOT on the table for discussion. I don't even have to ask that question to know the answer to the question that has been asked hundreds of times over. One of the reasons for a suit bonus rather than a module bonus is that there's a lopsided gain based on module fittings. a 10% hit point gain from armor is disproportionate to a 10% gain from shields. a 10% bonus to speed modules (for example) isn't the same as a 10% bonus to armor repair modules. Giving the bonuses directly to the suits allows forcing the bonuses to be roughly equal to the races regardless of fitting choices. You cannot do that running across modules the same way it's done in EVE quickly. It's taken CCP YEARS of tweaking to come to some modicum of balance on the EVE modules. Part of the reason is for ease of toning up (or more likely, down) to even things out, and get the actual racial stylings to some semblance of parity. yes, some people will take a more balanced approach to balancing armor or shield module use with rep rate. But one of the things DUST lacks is a racial theme, a thing that each race, at it's core just does BETTER on a technical side. The Gallente are supposed to have the best armor repair capacity in New Eden. The Amarr are supposed to have the best armor plates. The caldari are supposed to have the most powerful shields the minmatar strike a odd balance between speed, or recovery, depending on the shift of the meta. In this particular case, it was felt that a recovery buff to minmatar would probably not be as unbalancing as further buffing the speed relative to the other suits. Applying the frame skill bonuses directly to the base stats of the dropsuits makes it easier to pin down and adjust within a spectrum that isn't dependent upon player fitting styles. But it's important to have a distinction of what one race does better than the others defensively. The fact that there is no case where a gallente player can build a gallente suit to significantly outrep an amarr suit no matter what his build can be percieved as a problem inherent to the meta. The fact that the Caldari aren't significantly better at shield tanking (overall) than the minmatar can be seen as a problem. Adjusting that problem with very small bonuses to modules won't fix that oddity. This is my two cents, but the final decision does not, and never has been in my hands. Until it hits a patch/hotfix, most of this is just crapshoot theorycrafting. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.04 11:10:00 - [41] - Quote Interesting theorycrafting nonetheless. I think I understand what you mean about significant racial variation when looking at extreme fittings. I think Caldari and Minmatar are reasonably differentiated, but a Gallente suit fitted with all armour reps won't regen significantly faster than an Amarr suit. We can agree to disagree about bonuses. Personally I think adjustments to base suit stats to add more racial variety would be much better than bonuses, or you further stack things against new players. The only reason to make it a bonus would be to make skilling into frames worthwhile. But there are much better ways to do this. To start with you could make the frames worthwhile to run. Secondly, you only need a moderate bonus to make the skills worthwhile, if you were going down that road. There's no need to kill two birds with one stone. There are two issues. One is racial variety, the other is basic frame skills. Racial variety can done with base stats. With that taken care of you only need mild frame skills to make them worthwhile, limiting the impact on newer players. And let's not up everyone's hp again and mess up the TTK. I know you disagree Breakin, I'm glad you are listening though, and that we've been able to have this discussion. Perhaps some of the other CPM, or CCP will see things a bit my way. If any of these issues are addressed at any point. I don't really see it as a priority to be honest (other than medium frame base stat buffs).
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.31 01:32:00 - [42] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I know you disagree Breakin, I'm glad you are listening though, and that we've been able to have this discussion. Perhaps some of the other CPM, or CCP will see things a bit my way. If any of these issues are addressed at any point. I don't really see it as a priority to be honest (other than medium frame base stat buffs). I've had time to percolate on this for a bit now. The reason I want to put these on the frame skills is so they carry over to the specialist suits directly, without having to tweak each individual suit, saving some dev time in the process. But just adjusting (as an example) the gallente heavy frame directly to have +15hp/sec regen (again, as an example) doesn't alter the fact that the gallente sentinel doesn't have the ability to regen faster than an amarr sentinel. Setting such bonuses that are specific to racial doctrine to the frame skills and having them carry forward to the specialist suits derived from that allow a universal carry-forward of racial doctrine and flavor without having to micromanage all of the different dropsuits individually. I realize we all have our "perfect world" theories (god knows I do) but the more streamlined the process is dev side, the more likely that we are to see something that we want like that introduced. Plus it also carries the advantage of only having a single variable to tweak across the board if it turns out OP rather than going in and changing each individual entry. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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